The Agent Orange and Its Repercussions Thread

[FormerHorseGuard]

i tend to believe that  the old soldier buried something out there.  my grandfather told me about burying all sorts of stuff in various bases as away  to get rid of stuff. he told me about burying a  drum full of cap badges from his RCOC  days, they  were rebadging to the CF cap badges and he was told to get rid of the surplus babdge bury them and forget about them.
lots of stuff is buried on bases, remember signs in Petawawa about no dig areas because of bruried materials and worried it would hurt some one if found.
use to be an area near the near the site of the RES TRAINING area on the Plains that had those signs in the late 80s early  90s.

lots of stuff is hidden away  by  digging a hole, if agent Orange was dropped in a hole, the barrel would of rusted out by now i would think.
if they find something out there I am sure the news would  blow it out  of context.  watch it be a barrel of dirty water from the kitchen or soemthing as simple as that.  lots of chemicals in the army were not disposed of correctly  for todays standards.  We have a vast history  of dumping in oceans, digging holes , only  to find it a short term solution, spend a lot of money on clean up later.

 

[Old Sweat]

Re buried material in Petawawa (and other places), I suspect most of the contamination was from old camp grounds and especially the pit toilets we used to dig in the bad old days. The drill was to mark the sites with foul ground signs and the year of use marked on it. We also dug grease pits for kitchens and threw both wet and dry waste in these. I also recall as a young gunner on kitchen fatigues during summer concentrations of scrubbing out garbage cans in the Petawawa River.

 

[dalriada]

Hi Everyone, the following is a letter that I sent to our DND Minister

The Honourable Bill Graham:

I am writing to you in your capacity as a member of the committee studying the spraying of Agent Orange and various other defoliants at CFB Gagetown.

As you are now aware, there is a class action lawsuit in progress against the Federal Government.

We took this action, along with others, because your government is not listening to the information contained in your own documents that deadly defoliants were sprayed for 28 years involving 181,000 acres with 1.3 million liters of poisonous Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene, (Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White). These chemicals are persistent bioaccumulative pollutants.

By doing so the policy of defoliation poisoned hundreds, possibly thousands of people who are dead, dying or sick.

I can tell you that we are appalled with the government's claim that Agent Orange/Agent Purple was only sprayed for a short period in 1966 and 1967. 

We have a DND document and so do you, that was obtained under the freedom of information act that shows that there was a government policy of active and deliberate defoliation over a period of 28 years from 1956 to 1984. The document is very detailed and shows the amounts of Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White that were sprayed on the base year by year, the amounts of acreage each year, the number of barrels each year, the ratio of the mixes each year and the kill ratio each year. Also the cost per acre each year is broken down according to which chemical was used.

This document was made available to the government on June 23.  Yet your government sill maintains the position of 1966 and 1967 spraying only. I have to say that this continuation of a denial of the truth in the face of your own DND's excellent documentation make your government's position laughable. It is at the point of turning into a Monty Python sketch. However, because of the nature of the actions of the past in poisoning both the environment and the hundreds or thousands of people there is nothing remotely funny about any of this.

How can you deny your own documentation? How can you continue to bury the truth? How can you expect us to believe anything that is said now by our government?

A public inquiry will tell the truth.

It was the Americans that did it, not us; that is the message that the public is supposed to swallow. And that it was only a very small quantity over a period of seven days. Is that what you seriously think people will believe? Think again, because they know the truth and the anger out here is growing daily.

What is so damaging is that your own documents show that 2,4-D + 2,4,5-T (which the Americans call Agent Orange) was sprayed for six years out of eight from 1956 to 1964 covering almost 50,000 acres. Then in 1965, the military switched to TORDON 101, which is made up of Picloram and 2,4-D. They sprayed this and other herbicides for 20 years covering another 130,000 acres.

What is not generally known is that TORDON 101 is what the Americans called Agent White.

As mentioned, TORDON 101 contains Picloram. Unfortunately for the health of the troops, contractors and the families of both military and civilians who used the training area, Picloram contained the deadly Hexachlorobenzene (HCB) which causes multiple diseases and organ failures.

The other issue of civilians not being exposed is a blatant lie that continues to be the position of a supposedly enlightened government.

The training area was not only used for military exercises, it was in fact also a recreation area for all the families of military personnel for decades. Families went on picnics on a regular basis, they swam in the lakes, streams and rivers, they ate the millions of blueberries, and they drank the spring water at the Shirley road. Everyone did because the chlorinated water in the PMQ's in Oromocto was so dreadful. Teenagers and children fished and ate the trout at the many lakes and rivers. The Camp Gagetown Fish & Game Club was very active and had many thousands of members over the years. People hunted the game and ate it. People fished the trout and pickerel and ate them in the hundreds of thousands.

Families used to go out to the training area and pick the apples at the old orchards of the expropriated farms that made up the training area. We used to pick bushels of Macintosh apples, mum made apple sauce and pies and packed the apples in newspaper in cardboard boxes for winter storage. Everyone did. It was an accepted and practiced way of life for military families at Base Gagetown.

Families, including children over a period of almost 30 years used the training area for recreational purposes and were exposed to all the chemicals that were sprayed there.

Thousands of children and wives exposed over a period of  three decades. Think about that.

It is one thing for military personnel to have been exposed and poisoned because it was their job to be in the training area. However, while innocently enjoying the recreational amenities that the training area provided, children and wives were exposed to the poisonous Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene. 

Another favourite thing that military families did at Christmas time was to go out into the training area and cut their Christmas tree and bring it home and have it stand in their living rooms for two or three weeks. Thousands of us did it over the years. And now to think that those trees stood in our houses for those weeks at Christmas time, polluting our houses with the deadly chemicals, exposing babies, children, wives and husbands at a time when each family was celebrating the joy of Christmas not knowing that they were being poisoned not by their Christmas tree but by their Chemical tree.

I can remember that it was a big occasion in Oromocto every year in the first two weeks in January, everyone brought their trees to a field right beside the Oromocto High School and on a Saturday morning, with the fire department in attendance, this massive pile of Christmas trees, two or three thousand of them would be set on fire creating the most incredible bonfire that I have ever seen in my life. The smoke from the fire would choke the thousand or so people who gathered to watch the fire and in doing so just created more exposure to their future health.

There were Boy Scout camps in the training area in the summers. I know because I was took part in two of them. One camp that I attended was in 1960 and then again in 1961. I still have photos that I took. And the army even issued us with Bell tents for our use when we were at the Boy Scout camps in the CFB Gagetown training area.

For our government to say that civilians were not exposed to the defoliation chemicals in any way is not only a callous dismissal of fact but it infuriates the people who were there and are sick.

Your government is denying 28 years of spraying and by doing so you are attempting to seriously limit your duty of full disclosure.

There should be a formal judicial inquiry into this entire debacle. Only then will the truth be told.

Respectfully,

Kenneth Dobbie

 

[dalriada]

A class action lawsuit was filed July 12, 2005 against the Minister of Defence and the Attorney General of Canada as representatives of the Canadian Government. The action was filed in Federal Court in Ottawa and was filed because of the Government's responsibility for the spraying of toxic defoliants at CFB Gagetown from 1956 to 1984 causing wide spread harm to the environment and to all personnel who were exposed and poisoned by the defoliants.

We took this action, along with others, because the government have not listened to the information contained in their own documents that they sprayed deadly defoliants for 28 years involving 181,000 acres with 1.3 million liters of poisonous Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene, (Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White). By doing so they poisoned hundreds, possibly thousands of people who are dead, dying or sick.

By taking this action it will force the government to eventually admit the truth and when they do they will be found to be negligent. People will have the opportunity to join the action if they have suffered illness or death in their families.

As the primary representative for the plaintiffs, I cannot list people's names as some people have told me that they are afraid of government repercussions if they come forward with their names publicly. For the moment, those who wish to be anonymous can be listed as John/Jane Does on the statement of claim.

I can tell you that the list is growing, however it will still be a long process. We expect that the bulk of the people will sign up after the certification of the class action is completed and that will take some months to accomplish. We are pleased with that time frame as parliament will reconvene in September and our certification will be in the news again at that time. After certification there will be public announcements made and people who have not seen or heard of the class action will by then be aware that there is one and they will make the determination whether or not they join the action. In the case of the people who are currently "sitting on the fence" and there are many, they will make their minds up over time whether they will join or not.

If you or a family member are sick or dying or you have a family member who has already died and you know that you or they were exposed to chemical defoliants at or near the training area in Base Gagetown then you can sign up now in the class action. This includes people who were living or are currently living in the farms and villages along the St. John River, or the communities bordering Base Gagetown training area.

It does not matter if you are military or civilian.

To sign up, visit the website of the law firm representing us in the class action suit. www.merchantlaw.com

There is no cost to you as the law firm is working entirely on a contingency fee of 25%. This fee is subject to reduction by the Court should the damages be very high.

I can tell you that we are appalled with the government's claim that Agent Orange/Agent Purple was only sprayed for a short period in 1966 and 1967 and they are also saying publicly that it was only a few barrels of AO/AP that were involved covering a very small acreage.

We have a DND document that was obtained under the freedom of information act that shows that there was a government policy of active and deliberate defoliation over a period of 28 years from 1956 to 1984. The document is very detailed and shows the amounts of Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White that were sprayed on the base year by year, the amounts of acreage each year, the number of barrels each year, the ratio of the mixes each year and the kill ratio each year. Also the cost per acre each year is broken down according to which chemical was used.

This document was made available to the government on June 23. It has also been sent to every cabinet minister as well as various opposition members and also the cabinet group that is now meeting on this issue. Yet they still maintain their position of 1966 and 1967.

What is so damaging to the government is that their own documents show that 2,4-D + 2,4,5-T (which the Americans call Agent Orange) was sprayed for six years out of eight from 1956 to 1964 covering almost 50,000 acres. Then in 1965, they switched to TORDON 101, which is made up of Picloram and 2,4-D. They sprayed this and other herbicides for 20 years covering another 130,000 acres.

What is not generally known is that TORDON 101 is what the Americans called Agent White.

As mentioned, TORDON 101 contains Picloram. Unfortunately for the troops and the contractors and the families both military and civilians who used the training area, Picloram contained the deadly Hexachlorobenzene (HCB) which causes multiple diseases and organ failures.

The other issue of civilians not being exposed is a blatant lie that continues to be the position of a supposedly enlightened government.

The training area was not only used for military exercises, it was in fact also a recreation area for all the families of military personnel for decades. Families went on picnics on a regular basis, they swam in the lakes, streams and rivers, they ate the millions of blueberries, and they drank the spring water at the Shirley road. Everyone did because the chlorinated water in the PMQ's in Oromocto was so dreadful. Teenagers and children fished the trout at the many lakes and rivers. The Camp Gagetown Fish & Game Club was very active and had many thousands of members over the years. People hunted the game and ate it. People fished the trout and pickerel and ate them in the hundreds of thousands.

Families used to go out to the training area and pick the apples at the old orchards of the expropriated farms that made up the training area. We used to pick bushels of Macintosh apples, mum made apple sauce and pies and packed the apples in newspaper in cardboard boxes for winter storage. Everyone did. It was an accepted and practiced way of life for the families of the military.

Families, including children over a period of almost 30 years used the training area for recreational purposes and were exposed to all the chemicals that were sprayed there.

Thousands of children and wives exposed over a period of  three decades. Think about that.

It is one thing for military personnel to have been exposed and poisoned because it was their job to be in the training area. However, while innocently enjoying the recreational amenities that the training area provided, our children and wives were exposed to the poisonous Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene. 

There were Boy Scout camps in the training area in the summers. I know because I was took part in two of them. One camp that I attended was in 1960 and then again in 1961. I still have photos that I took. And the army even issued us with Bell tents for our use when we were at the Boy Scout camps in the CFB Gagetown training area.

For our government to say that civilians were not exposed to the defoliation chemicals in any way is not only a callous dismissal of fact but it infuriates the people who were there and are sick.

Sign up now or sign up later at The Merchant Law Group's website:

www.merchantlaw.com

Merchant Law Group has nine offices across Canada. Tony Merchant and his law firm are well known for their involvement in Mass & Class Action cases in Canada, currently including Silicon Breast Implant litigation, Class Actions concerning Vioxx/Celebrex & Bextra. Marsh McLennan, Cellular System Access Fees, Conrad Black & Hollinger Securities, Metis Veteran Benefit claims, Cryptosporidium Water proceedings, Indian Residential School litigation, CPR Anhydrous Ammonia action, as well as other securities and consumer class actions and cases regarding Brookfield assets, ISM Information Security damages, Tundra noxious gas emissions and the Canadian Wheat Board Pool transfers.

Tony Merchant is known to be one of Canada's most active litigators with over 600 reported cases in leading law journals, and has argued thousands of cases before the Canadian and American Courts, in Trial and Administrative Courts, and the Courts of Appeal of various American and Canadian jurisdictions, the Federal Court of Canada, and the Supreme Court of Canada. Tony Merchant has a long history in pursuing public policy cases, and is also a former Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) of Saskatchewan.

If you have questions, email The Merchant Group at www.merchantlaw.com or call Tony Merchant or Casey Churko at 1-888-567-7777.

Remember, the Government is denying 28 years of spraying and by doing so they are attempting to seriously limit their duty to full disclosure and they are also denying your rights.  By banding together, we can make the Government do the right thing.

Kenneth Dobbie

 

[Young KH]

Permission to Post asked for and Granted to me.






Gary King
BellaOnline's Veterans Editor
 



Agent Orange, Apathy, and Brooms

My article with regards to Agent Orange produced the result I wanted because it generated some responses. And those responses, plus some research, has turned up some things which require attention by anyone reading this article AND the American and Canadian people.

Agent Orange is a defoliant which was used by the U.S. Military during the Vietnam War. It is composed, or is supposed to be composed of equal parts of the chemicals 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. The by-product of this combination is TCDD or dioxin. It is a colorless substance, which was code-named after the orange stripes used on storage barrels.

In 1971, the U.S. Military ceased using Agent Orange following increasing evidence of the harmful effects of the substance for humans. Dioxin has been linked to a variety of illnesses, malignancies and disorders. Many health effects resulting from exposure are delayed.

Although Canada did not participate in the Vietnam War, the Canadian government has confirmed that Agent Orange was sprayed on the Canadian Forces Base in Gagetown, New Brunswick in 1966 and 1967. No other incidences of Agent Orange testing or use in Canada have been confirmed.

Soldiers and civilians who lived and worked at CFB Gagetown have launched a class action against the government, alleging they were poisoned by Agent Orange and other toxic defoliants sprayed on the military base.

A statement of claim filed in Ottawa alleges from 1956 to 1984 the Department of National Defence sprayed a variety of carcinogenic chemicals, including Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Tordon 101, also known as Agent White.

Some of the chemicals contain such persistent organic pollutants as hexachlorabenzene and dioxin.

The claim alleges the plaintiffs and others suffered horrifying health effects such as cancer, organ failure, birth defects and neurological damage. The suit alleges some people have died as a result of their health problems.

According to the statement of claim, the government lied about the extent of spraying and the potential for harm.

Ken Dobbie is a walking medical horror story and he says its all because of toxic defoliants used at CFB Gagetown.

"I want the government to acknowledge that they did poison the base," said the 57-year-old father of two, who now lives in Kingston.

He says he was employed at CFB Gagetown in a government make-work project in 1966 that saw 200-250 teens working to clear and burn brush sprayed with defoliant.

No one was given protective gear and they ate their lunches next to the burning brush.

Since then, he's had peptic ulcers, gastro esophogeal reflux and "toxic hepatitis." In 1981, a benign growth began forming on his thyroid. He's been told the frontal lobes of his brain have atrophied by 30%. In 1998, his gall bladder "died" and doctors found he has a cirrhotic liver. He's recently been diagnosed with Type II diabetes.

"What amazes me is all the women and kids who are sick," he said. "We all have one thing in common -- we were all in that training area."

July 4th an outreach meeting with Col. Ryan Jestin, Commanding Officer, Base Gagetown. Col. Jestin committed to undertake soil, water, and vegetation testing for dioxide and other chemicals throughout the training areas of Base Gagetown rather than limit the testing to only the plots where Agent Orange and Purple were tested in 1966 and 1967.

The purpose of that meeting was to gather input, on where the samples for the tests should be collected, directly from veterans who were involved or inadvertently affected by the Chemical Spray Program. As we know, 2,4,5 T and 2,4 D were mixed and used throughout the training grounds as a herbicide to defoliate trees and brush as early as 1956. We also know that many veterans and civilians were directly and/or inadvertently exposed to these chemicals. Dosages of the mixtures in the mid-50's and early 60's generally contained higher levels of dioxin than mixtures used in the late 60's and early 70's.

The testing of samples from the training grounds of Base Gagetown will be conducted this summer by an independent company chosen by open tender. It will be open ended to allow for more testing later if the need arises. All results will be released to the public.

The Federal Government has acknowledged compensation for one veteran exposed to Agent Orange at Base Gagetown (2 others were for exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam), they have a moral and ethical obligation to provide and gather information through an open/independent process that will lead to the compensation of all people directly affected, veterans and civilians, from exposure to highly toxic chemicals used as part of the chemical spray program at Base Gagetown.

That is in Canada!

The United States used Agent Orange in Vietnam. How much testing was done to ensure that military personnel would not be affected by Agent Orange and other chemicals? And if they did realize there was a great risk, did they do what was right and take the best precautions, or did they drop the chemical on the jungle anyway? When they did order the chemical dropped, did they make sure our troops on the ground knew where it was going to be and did they make sure our troops had the best protection available? Did they take into consideration the innocent civilians in South Vietnam and act accordingly, or simply go ahead and drop the chemical on the jungle? I think we all probably know the answers to those questions.

I was not aware that Agent Orange was a problem in Canada, but it was and is and now they have veterans and civilians with the same problems our Vietnam veterans and Vietnamese civilians are having. We all know this now because the flame burning and illuminating the problems is growing bigger and brighter.

The apathy by the Canadian government and the United States government is something we cannot and should not ignore. Both governments are directly responsible for the use of Agent Orange and other chemicals. They both did not adequately do their homework and charged ahead without thinking. And the result is that those who were exposed are the ones who are and will pay the price. But the government should stand up to be counted and not only tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but compensate those who were exposed. They should not have to pay their own medical bills and the families of those who die the funeral expenses.

There are some things here we need to get to the bottom of now! We need to know exactly what chemicals they did use in Vietnam, the potency, the ingredients, and where and when they dropped them. And they need to tell the truth so that those who were in those areas who were exposed to the chemicals can be given appropriate and proper medical treatment at the expense of the government who sent them there in the first place.

I am concerned about one other MAJOR aspect to the matter of Agent Orange and other chemicals we used in Vietnam: what did they do with the chemicals they did not use? If they buried them, where did they bury them? If they destroyed them, how and where did they destroy them? These questions need to be answered but these questions also lead to some more questions we need answered: If we used chemicals like this in Vietnam, did we also use these same chemicals in Korea? And if we used chemicals in Korea, did we also use any chemicals in Iraq? Did our enemies in Iraq use any chemicals?

The TRUTH on all of this needs to be brought out now and I urge all veterans who are reading this who served in Vietnam to contact me and let me know your thoughts. You may not be sick and you may be healthy, but believe me, some of these chemicals can lie dormant for a long time before they act on certain individuals. You never know when they will suddenly become active or when something will trigger them to activate. So be honest, and stand up to be counted. Also, it just might save your life. I held a SECRET clearance and I learned some very interesting things about chemicals and other matters in two branches of the military. Listen to what I am saying because, while Agent Orange is bad, there are some that are much worse and I pray to God we never used them.

Agent Orange, and purple, and white and whatever other chemical was used in Vietnam is a silent killer than can stalk those who served in Vietnam. Vietnam Veterans, you need to stand up and be counted and we all need to band together to make sure the truth of this is brought out.

One other note: When the Canadian government tested Agent Orange and probably other chemicals, what did they do with what was left over?

The cloud hanging over America and Canada is becoming more transparent and one day the contents of those clouds will become visible. But that will only happen when two governments who claim to be concerned and say they are doing all they can stop being so apathetic and quit sweeping things under the rug. They both know the whole truth and beyond and they have to learn to quit taking protective measure to hide things in order to protect themselves. They need to step up to the mike and tell the truth.

We are the people and we vote for those in power. We can make some changes by voting for people who will do what is right and carry out their duties with integrity. But we can also make sure our candidates make promises that they can carry out and promises based on truth, integrity and common sense.

Agent Orange was used! It created major HEALTH problems for those exposed to it. Let us all pray that the TRUTH prevails and that our elected representatives one day will stand up to be counted and DEMAND that the TRUTH be made public and corrective action taken to compensate those who have been imprisoned in the ring of injustice.


Content copyright © 2001-2005 by Gary King. All rights reserved.
This content was written by Gary King. If you wish to use this content in any manner, you need written permission. Contact Gary King for details.

 

[PKR_Chequer]

This was in the local rag a few days ago...


Tue 05 Jul 2005

Owen Sound Sun Times

Defence ministry taking Agent Orange claims at Meaford base seriously, says MP

by Bill Henry

MEAFORD - Defence department officials are "taking very seriously"
concerns raised last week about the possibility barrels of Agent
Orange were buried near Meaford in 1969.

Defence Minister Bill Graham's staff called Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound MP
Larry Miller Monday morning promising to investigate the claim.

Miller raised the issue last week after a former air force heavy
equipment operator sent him a sworn affidavit detailing how he and
three civilians buried four large drums of the deadly defoliant
linked to cancer.

John Williamson said the barrels are buried on second hipp, a high
point of land at the Meaford Tank Range, now called Land Forces
Central Area Training Facility.

The former member of the Royal Canadian Air Force, now 83, said he
kept quiet as ordered about the hidden chemical until last week. He
went public with the information through Miller because of related
media coverage of the Agent Orange controversy surrounding tests at a
New Brunswick military base in the 1960s, Williamson wrote in the
affidavit.

Miller asked immediately for a full investigation of the claim and
said he plans to call Graham's office weekly to keep informed about
the progress.

"His staff said they will be looking into it and they take the
allegation very seriously," the MP said Monday. "I hope they won't
wait too long."

Williamson also claims contact with the chemical led to cancer which
killed his wife and has kept him and his daughter in treatment for
years.

Officials at Meaford base have said there is no record of any Agent
Orange in use or storage at the base. Army public affairs spokesman
Maj. Chris Lemay said late Monday in Ottawa the military has a
toll-free line mostly to study what happened 50 years ago at Gagetown
in New Brunswick. He said anyone with information should call
1-866-558-2945.

Lemay also said he's unaware of any other allegations of Agent Orange
at the tank range near Meaford and could not yet say how or how soon
officials will investigate Williamson's claim that Agent Orange is
buried at the base.

"First and foremost, we welcome all information about what happened
50 years ago," Lemay said. "We want to hear from everyone with
factual information about any aspect of Agent Orange . . . we will
welcome all leads."

 

[MikeM]

Where is Second Hip?

I've never heard that term used to describe a location before.

 

[Doreen]

I was in CFB Gagetown from 1971 until 1974.  Two years ago I was diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia.  The type I have is a very rare T Cell form.  No family history.  No knowledge of where it came from.  I was there during the spraying and it was after I left NB that I started having different symptoms that were never experienced before.  Allergies, reactions to ordinary drugs, unusual white cell counts as early as 1981 and at the ripe old age of 60 (on my birthday in fact) the diagnosis was made after many many blood tests.  Very rare indeed.  I am now persuing the idea that perhaps, just perhaps, this was where the very origins of my leukemia came from.

 

[Doreen]

I seem to be experiencing a problem posting but I will try again.  Here goes.  I was in CFB Gagetown between 1971 and 1974.  After leaving NB I developed allergies to almost everything.  Allergies to ordinary drugs even.  In 1981 I was diagnosed with an unusual white cell count.  However, it wasn't pursued at the time.  Two years ago after many many tests I was diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia of the very rare T Cell variety.  I believe this leukemia could be a direct result of my time spent at CFB Gagetown.  I have no family history of this disease or any other probable cause for having it. 

 

[Sandy Skipton]

There is a new online petition to the Prime Minister regarding the sprayings at CFB Gagetown.

Please take a look and consider signing it Thanks

Sandy (MIKsam)

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/aoalert/

 

[Mack]

Hello Folks,

I've been reading along and have been reserving comment until I gathered as many facts and watched what developed further. I'm impressed Ken and Art with research and unselfish efforts. I'm sorry for your desperate situations. I'd also like to express my condolences for the Skipton family. I used to go to school with Sue at West Kings.

What I'll cover in this post is my experiences with CFB Gagetown, the Canadian forces medical system, and Canada's Veteran Affairs. I'll outline how my health deteriorated over the years and how these 3 entities have abandoned me outright although I served them well.

It was just after high school when I arrived at CFB Gagetown in March of 1980 as an RCR. I spent the next 6.5 years in the swamps of Gagetown training area until Jul 1986. I was a very healthy 19 year old who had been athletic all my life so far, and was about to become even much more athletic. Until 2000, in a typical week I cycled 100km's, did a couple trail hikes, rollerbladed to and from work, golfed 3-4 rounds, privately flew an airplane. All this on top of PT parade â Å“when there was oneâ ?. I looked after myself because I took my responsibilities to my uniform seriously. Those were the days when being out of shape and obese would get you a discharge. I'm not saying this was just. It was just the way it was.

Today I sit all day in a lazy boy chair trying not to aggravate the multitude of symptoms and illness' plaguing me today. 2 summers ago I had been diagnosed with neuroendocrine cancer located on the uncinate process of my pancreas. There is no known cause so it can't be blamed on cigarette smoking as the VA suggests, even though literature clearly shows there is no known cause for this cancer. This type of cancer is very rare and only 2500 case are discovered in the US each year. I've also been diagnosed with some emotional/mental illness such as depression and a stress disorder. The cancer is malignant and I follow up with ct scans each 6 months. I had been carrying the tumors for years according to the surgeon. The tumors were hormone producing, sending my hormonal system into chaos.

The surgery for the tumors on my pancreas was while I was still serving but had remusted to the airforce â Å“2003â ?. It was bungled in that a bleeder clip was left behind and possibly more FOD. After loosing 30 lbs in 6 days, and 10 days after the surgery, I had a pulmonary embolism that landed me back at the hospital.. While there a very large life threatening cyst was discovered on my liver. It was drained and I continue to have trouble with my liver function being low. By the very uncomfortable feeling in my right side I'd say the liver is enlarged/bloated. The surgeon explained it as â Å“something picked up off the table. I bleed rectally now which never was before. I digest very poorly and have much nausea often.

About 98-99 I began to develop neuropathy in my finger tips. About the same time I was diagnosed with very early arthritis in my knees. The rest of my joints particularly my feet, hands, back, and hips have followed suit in the last couple years.

As soon as I hit Gagetown I began to have migraine headaches very badly and very often. They were poorly controlled with heavy meds. I had terrible abdominal issues such as  chronic diarrhea,  cramps, and acid reflux. Around 82/83 I had a spell of night sweats that followed with chronicly aching bones and joints. I  had acne while I served in Gagetown and my testicals ached and were sensitive to touch.

Make no mistake, as bad as I felt all these years. I pulled my weight and finished every exercise I ever started. I never ever once fell by the wayside. I point this out to demonstrate I was not hypochondriac nor a malingerer. I made infantry section commander in 2 years back in 82, and just to finish an Infantry Section Commaders course back then was a feat. 48 of us started the first day, and only 13 graduated. I point these things out to show again, I was no slouch. I enjoyed my career and was happy to serve without question in those days.

I was released from the CF against my will Feb 04. The Surgeon and CF medical system knew full well the surgery had been bungled and I would require further treatment. Not much of a case of continued care, as promised by CF orders. I had no family doctor lined up and so was told by Ottawa to use outpatients when I called to complain of a lack of continuity in my care. How in the world could an emergency room doctor know my full history to consider proper diagnosis? Everybody knows that if you're lucky you'll get 15 minutes with a doctor. The CF medical system was under pressure from CF leadership to reduce the SPHL list. I receive no assistance and just a bureaucratic nightmare facing Blue Cross insurance adjusters representing the VA.

Why wouldn't the CF medical system try at all to explain my cancer or do any sort of investigation into possible chemical poisoning? I finished my career as an aviation tech and was sometimes chronically exposed to many chemicals. Known to be dangerous chemicals, but no investigation at all. They knew I was a soldier in Gagetown. No continued medical care, no VA support, and no family doctor. I was able to find a doctor on my own who would prove to be completely inadequate for such a complicated case. 18 months I spent with this doctor. I visited her about 6 times. She never once physically examined me.

I've been made to feel that I am just searching for a pension, all along the way. This is insane to think that I'd serve as well as I did for such a large and insured company just to be thrown out like a used up battery. The VA has never given me the benefit of the doubt, they'd just prefer the cancer gets me and they'd have less to pay my family who probably wouldn't even pursue them for a claim. They know, and it's a game of attrition. There hasn't been much response because there's no one hardly left.

The dilemma in gaining any sort of accountability is entirely about avoiding fiscal responsibility such as class action suits and pensions to veterans. The VA is privatized for the most part and is just an insurance company more fitting of an era of privatization of government services.

I don't believe for a minute anyone will come clean on this and tell the whole truth resulting in proper investigation and possible proper compensation if entitled. I'm sure veterans will have to jump through hoops to get help, as it's always been, and civilians will get lost in a long drawn out affair of denial and lying by chemical company reps and our government who is primarily concerned with protecting shareholders and big business.

Our government shows it's distaste for the men and women of our CF flagrantly when it appropriates billions of dollars saved up by generations of serviceman and women in their pension fund â Å“bill C78â ?. Crooks!! The new Ombudsman appointment of Mr. Cote will prove to have a negative effect on the office and it's mandate. The VA has supposedly been revamped, but I'd say that they just made the criteria more difficult and discriminatory. Wow!!, and this is the year of the veteran.

I haven't got the whole picture yet, but, It's clear the VA is not at all a â Å“new and improvedâ ? version of the past. Soldiers are having to make their own investigation while medical professionals remain silent and complicit. Soldiers are being segregated according to their service, whether actual wartime xp or UN duty or peacetime service. Such categories are discriminatory and should be immediately discarded as policy. I have seen much sacrifice by career peacetime soldiers. I've seen men injured during live fire excercises. I've seen them die in MVAs during convoys. I've lost a pile of friends along the way because the work is dangerous and full of hazard whether the country is at peace or war. I can't count on one hand the close calls I've had that don't at all represent the typical dangers a civilian would face. We all agreed to serve and die if called upon. The commitment was no less amongst those that didn't get to carry out their mission overseas. The sacrifices in our personal lives and within our family lives was no less for a career peacetime solder than one who went to Bosnia, for example. It's just not the individual's choice how he will serve in these regards. I feel Cold War soldiers deserve no less consideration by the VA when it comes to a claim for disability.

I just can't imagine why I'd be treated so differently than the generations of my family that have served before me. I've seen how they were treated by the VA and I can tell you the criteria has changed and has become a mine field of hurdles to gain compensation for injuries due to service during anything but wartime. The benefit of the doubt has gone by the wayside.

If there are any airman out there who are familiar with a red alert in Baden, and remember having to go underground into what we called the â Å“subsâ ? for NBC protection. Try to ask yourself when you went in the sub did anyone really know whether it was real or just an exercise. I didn't. Who knew whether when you came out of the sub if your family would still be there or would there be a nuclear wasteland to come up too. How is this â Å“Cold Warâ ? service different and less valid than patrolling Bosnia?

How is it that a soldier who is accidently blown up in the Ghan and a soldier who bites it on a peacetime mission such as a live fire, or a Gagetown career soldier exposed to herbacides are deserving of such segregation from our VA?

So, in conclusion; I served honorably and with distinction, both in peacetime and also as a UN peacekeeper in Cyprus. I fell ill gradually over the years for reasons unknown and the professionals responsible have never lived up to their obligations to me. I was released without any investigation into my illness', without any continuing care, without a family doctor, and no VA support whatsoever. I was also forced from my PMQ after release while I was still very sick.

What I have received was negative attitude towards my type of service, claw backs on my pensions, and bleak future for a lack of medical treatment and support from the VA. I'll always be a little less proud of my service for this sort of flagrant disregard for my contribution and wellbeing. I have a letter that was written to my parents by the Cornwallis Base Commander when I signed up; It was a letter to reassure my parents that I would be cared for as far as my health and wellbeing. All our parents received such a letter in those days. It was a promise never kept, and has turned out to be nothing but a lie.

PS. I'm only 44 years old. The average age for my cancer is 55-65 years.

Pro Patria
Marc

 

[Joe Blow]

Mack, that is a remarkable story by itself, and especially for an applicant to hear.  My condolances to yourself and your family for the treatment you have received.  ..and my compliments on your evident continued loyalty sir.

We need a study that looks at the rates and types of disease in populations that have passed through Gagetown and the wider Canadian (or perhaps Atlantic / New England) population.

If a corelation between service in that area and disease were shown, in conjunction with American research showing a direct cause and effect relationship between some of the herbicides used and various maledies, that should be enough to:

first - grant appropriate compensation and recognition to those affected, and
secondly - provide reason for relocating training grounds.

..I have a family to think about.

 

[Doreen]

It appears there was a direct link between Agent Orange and the Brigadier Generals Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia.  He received compensation.  A life is a life.  Time the government did something about all these cancers.  Too many rarities here to be coincidence.  Many of us don't have much time left to wait. 

 

[Mack]

Thanks Joe,

With all my heart Joe....Please don't do it. Stay at home with your family and don't be at all swayed by the recruitment posters. The CF command is spoiled and out of touch with anything but thier own selfish pusuits, and it's getting worse. Over the past several years I have been watching many good and loyal senior NCMs jumping ship because the climate within is intolerable.

If you have a chance at a commision, then I'd say go for it. Otherwise be prepared to be used, abused and then neglected.

I have to point out that I never seen a commision rank above Lt in the trenches with me and my men.

I'll be brave enough and dare to ask the Q....Why would a general be the first VA case in this matter to be aproved?

Marc

Marc

 

[Mack]

Damn my spelling, sorry.

Marc

 

[Fry]

I've applied for a NCM position.

Thanks Joe,

With all my heart Joe....Please don't do it. Stay at home with your family and don't be at all swayed by the recruitment posters. The CF command is spoiled and out of touch with anything but thier own selfish pusuits, and it's getting worse. Over the past several years I have been watching many good and loyal senior NCMs jumping ship because the climate within is intolerable.

If you have a chance at a commision, then I'd say go for it. Otherwise be prepared to be used, abused and then neglected.

I have to point out that I never seen a commision rank above Lt in the trenches with me and my men.

I'll be brave enough and dare to ask the Q....Why would a general be the first VA case in this matter to be aproved?

Marc

Marc

I do not think in the very least the CF command is spoiled and in it for their own selfish pursuits. You're saying I'm going to be used, abused, and then neglected? Those are strong words to use. I think your post will anger many.

 

[Hero]

Merchant Law Group Class Action

I am not disputing that things are wrong here and that litigation is unwarranted because I do believe that it is. I question the choice of using Merchant Law Group to represent anyone for a number of reasons.

There has been hundreds of millions of dollars paid out to the lawyers representing the victims of the residential schools where people suffered sexual abuse and more. Thus far the lawyers have received 95% of these funds and the victims perhaps 5%. Merchant Law Group has the majority of claims (victims) against the Government of Canada in this situation. There are questions being raised on where is the money, and why have the victims not been compensated when the lawyers are getting rich.

Doing searches on the internet will yield some things that make you think twice about Merchant Law Group. One particular website is well documented with undisputable facts including court documents.

www.law.avva.ca

I wish everyone the best and hope that this injustice is resolved in favour of the victims and not the other way around.

 

[Joe Blow]

Fry -

Maybe the gentleman's position is worth considering ..coming as it does from someone with almost as many years in the CF as you've had in life.

 

[Strike]

With all my heart Joe....Please don't do it. Stay at home with your family and don't be at all swayed by the recruitment posters. The CF command is spoiled and out of touch with anything but thier own selfish pusuits, and it's getting worse. Over the past several years I have been watching many good and loyal senior NCMs jumping ship because the climate within is intolerable.

And discouraging people to join is the best way to keep the system from changing.  Could go on but that is not the point of this thread.  I suggest you look into the threads about Parrish and the CDS to see how wrong that statement is.

Anyhoo, it's not the military leadership within the CF that is to blame wrt the present thread topic, but IMHO, the politicos that run DND; the ones who were never in the military and think of CYA before sticking their neck out.

 

[Mack]

You'll do well with General Hillier. Thank goodness he's Army. Most of my bad XP was with the AF. Good luck to you all. Be safe and come home to your families in one piece.