The Canadian Commando Course

[Jarnhamar]

Instead of having another course that takes soldiers away from home and puts a burden on units to either run or pony up staff, why don't we include activities like this in more collective training events?

I think a 'commando course' even in name would bend a lot of noses out of shape.

I'd like to see a month to three months devoted to section and platoon level training with an emphasis on comms, first aid stand training (and not just st-johns stuff), ranges including foreign weapons, various insertion/extraction methods, patrolling.  Basic infantry stuff (including an emphasis on working with other combat arms and combat support trades)

Huge issue is manning. It's hard to train a section when we have 3 or 4 man sections. We could fill up a section to 8 or 9 dudes but then we have a platoon with 2 sections minus.  (Maybe mech infantry doesn't have the manning issues the light side has?)

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think a 'commando course' even in name would bend a lot of noses out of shape.

I'd like to see a month to three months devoted to section and platoon level training with an emphasis on comms, first aid stand training (and not just st-johns stuff), ranges including foreign weapons, various insertion/extraction methods, patrolling.  Basic infantry stuff (including an emphasis on working with other combat arms and combat support trades)

Huge issue is manning. It's hard to train a section when we have 3 or 4 man sections. We could fill up a section to 8 or 9 dudes but then we have a platoon with 2 sections minus.  (Maybe mech infantry doesn't have the manning issues the light side has?)

Well, I did the All Arms Commando Course in the UK. It has been the same course - pretty much - since WW2 and it fulfills the same role: to prepare individuals to join 3 Commando Brigade. The tets are the same as for the Royal Marines' recruitsand Officers, but they do their tests during their receruit training.

The AACC prepares troops of all ranks /arms/services to participate in an amphibious 'light' brigade.... as indivuiduals. They are all already trained in their functional skills (as arty/engr/cook/dentist etc). There are some 'team' activities during the course, like section attacks, recce patrols, raids etc, but these are of secondary importance to the individual commando tests - which are quite difficult. They get the other 'team' stuff when they integrate into their Bde units.

There are no 'PO check equivalents' for anything except those Commando tests which, in my estimation, are harder than anything the CF does outside of the CANSOF envelope. But the reason they do them is to make sure that, if an EME tech (or equivalent) needs to land across a beach - or from a helicopter - and carry his bergan 10 miles overland to his unit, he won't collapse in a heap and have to be casevaced. They also need to be able to paticipate in limited 'infantry type' operations to help with area defence, or to clear out local enemy patrols etc. And yes, you CAN train a Navy Dentist to carry a 70lb bergen 20 miles at night and be a good patrol member! I've seen it happen with my own eyes!

IMHO, if we don't have a similar purpose or end state, then we would likely be wasting our time.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Precisely.

We do not have a 'commando' element, therefore why have a commando course? In a time of increasingly limited funds and resources, perhaps we should sustain what we have. And that is the current system of specialty courses for select individuals, HII, B Para (and everything afterwards), UOI, Cbt Diver.

Rather than try to create a new, ninja-skilz, GI Joe course, solely to satisfy international penis envy.

 

[MikeL]

Instead of having another course that takes soldiers away from home and puts a burden on units to either run or pony up staff, why don't we include activities like this in more collective training events?

Ack,  having this as part of collective/unit training may be the best way;  similar to what OZ commented.

I'd like to see a month to three months devoted to section and platoon level training with an emphasis on comms, first aid stand training (and not just st-johns stuff), ranges including foreign weapons, various insertion/extraction methods, patrolling.  Basic infantry stuff (including an emphasis on working with other combat arms and combat support trades)

We do not have a 'commando' element, therefore why have a commando course?

Names can be changed,  if a course were to come up similar to what has been proposed it wouldn't have to be a "commando course".

In a time of increasingly limited funds and resources, perhaps we should sustain what we have. And that is the current system of specialty courses for select individuals, HII, B Para (and everything afterwards), UOI, Cbt Diver.

Looking at the big picture I concur; as well some of the proposed ideas could be integrated into unit training, etc.  Plus existing courses also have elements of what has been proposed.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As opposed to a Commando Course, I would support the idea of creating some kind of Canadian version of the Cambrian Patrol Competition as a way to promote a higher standrd of soldiering skills, particularly within the combat arms, and to give the keeners something to 'aim' for.

 

[ArmyRick]

That is a brilliant idea! I know of how hard I have seen guys in battalions compete during section and platoon mil skills comps. So having each unit (that can) send a section to a Canadian version of Cambrian is an awesome idea!

 

[daftandbarmy]

That is a brilliant idea! I know of how hard I have seen guys in battalions compete during section and platoon mil skills comps. So having each unit (that can) send a section to a Canadian version of Cambrian is an awesome idea!

You'd also probably be able to attract a large crowd from the rest of the world's armies (for a fee), especially if the event involved canoes and several hundred miles of travel through the Canadian wilderness... just about every other guy I met from a European army seemed to want to do that - the maniacs.

 

[Robert0288]

Huntsville to Pet through Algonquin park.  100+km of canoeing, portages, bugs, swamps and hills.  What could be better?  Or you can change it up and stick it somewhere in the Canadian shield, then the rockies the next year.  We don't lack for geographical variance that's for sure.

 

[MikeL]

The idea of a Canadian version of the Cambrian patrol is interesting,  but what would be required for it?  That will also determine where it can take place,  example would there be a live fire component? - ball, tracer, HE, etc  What would be needed in terms of approvals for firing blank rounds in Algonquin park?

With regards to canoes,  is that a relevant skill?  What I mean is,  are canoes a realistic insert/extract method?  Or would it be better off with a Zodiac/raft?  And/or other means such as including a Air Mobile/Assault portion?

 

[dapaterson]

Give 'em a compass, drop them in Swift Current, and tell them to keep going west until they hit the mountains.

...then the competition begins...

 

[The Bread Guy]

Give 'em a compass, drop them in Swift Current Red Lake, and tell them to keep going west north-northeast until they hit the mountains Fort Severn.

...then the competition begins...

FTFY

 

[daftandbarmy]

Here's a suggestion for some 'Canadian Heritage' type routes. Of course, the 'Samuel Hearn diet' would become all the rage after we introduced this event to the world....  ;D

 

[PPCLI Guy]

As opposed to a Commando Course, I would support the idea of creating some kind of Canadian version of the Cambrian Patrol Competition as a way to promote a higher standrd of soldiering skills, particularly within the combat arms, and to give the keeners something to 'aim' for.

I love this idea.  Do you mind if I run with it a bit?

 

[George Wallace]

I love this idea.  Do you mind if I run with it a bit?

These competitions are not new.  I know that "RamsHead" used to be the Armour Gunnery competition out in 1 Bde in the Cougar days.

I don't know when all the Corps and Branches did away with many of these competitions, but budget cuts have had their toll on them, and the camaraderie and exchange of ideas that they promoted is gone.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I love this idea.  Do you mind if I run with it a bit?

Are you kidding? gogogogogogo......

But remember, no running in combat boots or your career could be at risk.  ;D

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Thanks - and of course I will take all the credit, what with you being a Mo guy and all.... >

I am thinking of making it truly Canadian, and doing it in Feb, with tent groups.  Dundurn is a possible location.  Outline plan would be a three year trial - Year 1 - 1 CMBG and LFWA only, Year 2 invite the Army, Year 3 invite the world.

This is a perfect example of training ideas that have low impact on resources, but high payoff for their training value.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Thanks - and of course I will take all the credit, what with you being a Mo guy and all.... >

I am thinking of making it truly Canadian, and doing it in Feb, with tent groups.  Dundurn is a possible location.  Outline plan would be a three year trial - Year 1 - 1 CMBG and LFWA only, Year 2 invite the Army, Year 3 invite the world.

This is a perfect example of training ideas that have low impact on resources, but high payoff for their training value.

You are welcome to the credit, as long as I get to lead the first CF summit team to Mt Barbeau, followed by the first CF team to hike to the North Pole. No pressure Herr General!  ;D

 

[The Bread Guy]

Thanks - and of course I will take all the credit, what with you being a Mo guy and all.... >

I am thinking of making it truly Canadian, and doing it in Feb, with tent groups.  Dundurn is a possible location.  Outline plan would be a three year trial - Year 1 - 1 CMBG and LFWA only, Year 2 invite the Army, Year 3 invite the world.

This is a perfect example of training ideas that have low impact on resources, but high payoff for their training value.

More on the same theme here for ya - grew out of discussion re:  whether patrolling skills are fading:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/102975.0/all.html

 

[Robert0288]

I am thinking of making it truly Canadian, and doing it in Feb, with tent groups

You evil person  >

 

[Kat Stevens]

Thanks - and of course I will take all the credit, what with you being a Mo guy and all.... >

I am thinking of making it truly Canadian, and doing it in Feb, with tent groups.  Dundurn is a possible location.  Outline plan would be a three year trial - Year 1 - 1 CMBG and LFWA only, Year 2 invite the Army, Year 3 invite the world.

This is a perfect example of training ideas that have low impact on resources, but high payoff for their training value.

Didn't we used to call that Rapier Thrust one upon a unicorn?