The Electric Car Thread- Merged
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BravoCharlie said:
No, instead we can drain the worlds supply of coal and natural gas....
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Or hydroelectricity, wind power, solar power, etc. There are other solutions.
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However, since only one of those seems to be a viable solution at present, then for now that just is a pipe dream.
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Does that mean we should wait until all alternative solutions are out there before we start developing technology that will eventually utilize them? Plus, the electric motor is probably 3X more efficient than a gas engine.
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Not at all, we should be actively persuing it vigorously, however when options are listed as taking the place of oil and they, at present, cannot, then that is intellectual fraud.
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If you have not yet seen it, "Who Killed the Electric Car" is a very informative documentary film, about this topic.
I think the answer to the question the film asks might be Bruce Monkhouse :blotto:
If you watch it, keep in mind that the technology it features is now several years old, and we are now capable of much more.
I think the answer to the question the film asks might be Bruce Monkhouse :blotto:
If you watch it, keep in mind that the technology it features is now several years old, and we are now capable of much more.
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Just for the efficiency, I think it's unfair to call it an intellectual fraud. We're talking 85% efficiency for the electric motor vs 25-30% for a gas engine...
There is another reason why these things tend to fail...
People design a "green" product and get all self righteous and demand consumers buy the product, instead of building a "green" product that consumers are looking for and would be happy to buy. If your product cannot compete with traditional automobiles, then don't demand government legislation favoring your product and don't guilt trip the consumer.
Also, it has been pointed out several times that an electric car is only as green as the juice coming out of the socket.
People design a "green" product and get all self righteous and demand consumers buy the product, instead of building a "green" product that consumers are looking for and would be happy to buy. If your product cannot compete with traditional automobiles, then don't demand government legislation favoring your product and don't guilt trip the consumer.
Also, it has been pointed out several times that an electric car is only as green as the juice coming out of the socket.
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GDawg said:
I would pre-order that car for 49K if I didn't buy my car last year. Customers also have to realize that we will NEED to move away from fossil fuels for several reasons, amongst others, climate change, price and availability.
GDawg said:
You're wrong. An electric motor is 3 times more efficient than a gas engine, plus there are hydroelectric plants out there. So, in the end, we win.
I find a lot of military say "I burn XXXX lbs of fuel every day for my job. What will doing Y at home change?". What you do in your spare time should not be influenced by what you do at work. Hell, I burn 3200 lbs of fuel every flight. Even then, I still turn off the lights in the squadron every night and at home when I'm not there, I try to mimimize my car's idling time, etc. Being in a professional position where you burn a lot of fuel should not be an excuse for you to be complacent about the environment at home.
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As much as I am all for electric cars and a better carbon footprint I must be a skeptic on such matters. After seeing the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car?" I feel that efforts for fossil fuel free vehicles will soon join the cure for the common cold.
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SupersonicMax said:
No, like I keep saying but you won't listen, AT PRESENT, there are moments when we do not produce enough electricity to keep up to the workload. Now add in a bunch of recharging cars and guess what, we will have no choice but to fire up the old coal and natural gas powered generating stations and belch out lots of carbon.
So unless you can carve up some new rivers [and space] to dam.........
[personally I think we need more nuclear however, IMO, that is a whole different arguement]
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JBoyd said:
A famous scientist, and a very succesful one once said : "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." His name was Lord Kelvin, a very famous physisist and engineer. We owe him the "Kelvin" unit of measurement for temperature.
We all know it is completely wrong...
His first car, the Tesla Roadster was a success. I don't see why this one should be otherwise.
Bruce Monkhouse said:
You're right, we do not have all the infrastructure to power these cars with hydroelectricity. However, even if we only had 1 dam, we would be better than with only fossil fuel. We need to start somewhere to stimulate the government in investing in greener energy. I think that car is amazing.
As far as I know, where I live the electricity is either bio-mass, natural gas, or coal. It gets bitterly cold in the winter, and its around 300 miles to get to Edmonton. I, as a consumer, will stick with my fossil fuel car until an electric car is built that won't become a 4 wheeled paper weight in the cold, and can get me to the big city without having to stop for an hour part way. Even if the electric car is %100 efficient, its still just another appliance plugged into the wall at home that's fueled by something being burnt. Maybe if the birkenstock scientists improved their technology instead of making cry-baby documentaries the consumer would reward them with their hard earned cash?
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SupersonicMax said:
Well I know there is a large thread here somewhere with posters telling us how great the Airbus A-400 is........................I wonder how that's working out anyway? ^-^
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Except that the electric car already proved to be working (Tesla Roadster) and that the Sedan is actually built and being tested. We can't say as much for the A400
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Rotary FTW. Find another motor that will make 500 rwhp on just 11 psi of boost. 8)
I don't have much hope for these purely electric cars. Although, within 2 years time new Lithium batteries will be on the market which will charge much much faster.
What would normally take 6 minutes to charge, can take 20 seconds with these new cells.
EDIT: If they can make these electric cars with batteries like those above ^^, Then that would be much more feasible. Rather than wait all night for your car to charge, you might only have to wait an hour.
I do however have high hopes for hydrogen electric cars.
I don't have much hope for these purely electric cars. Although, within 2 years time new Lithium batteries will be on the market which will charge much much faster.
What would normally take 6 minutes to charge, can take 20 seconds with these new cells.
EDIT: If they can make these electric cars with batteries like those above ^^, Then that would be much more feasible. Rather than wait all night for your car to charge, you might only have to wait an hour.
I do however have high hopes for hydrogen electric cars.
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power plants are at around 80% efficient, meaning about 80% of the fossil fuel they burn becomes power,
electric cars are about 80% efficient, meaning 85% of the power that goes into them becomes kinetic energy pushing you down the road
internal combustion engine cars are at best 25% efficient, ie 25% of the fossil fuel they burn becomes kinetic energy pushing you down the road.
this is being charitable because electric motors produce a lot more torque at low RPM than a gas engine...
so if 1 liter of gasoline makes 1KW
if you burn it in a power plant, you get 800 watts out, and if you take the 800 watts and transmit it to your house you get an average of 90% efficiency so 720 watts gets to your car
your car takes the 720 watts and turns 80% of it into kinetic forward motion which is 576watts
take that same 1000 watts of gasoline and burn it in your car and you only get 250 watts of forward motion.
I think a greater than twofold difference in efficiency is worthy of respect, as it results in a reduction in green house gasses by over 50%.
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in cold weather batteries only have a problem if they are stored cold... the a large part of the 20% inefficiency is heat lost due to the batteries heating up while drawing current.
electric cars work fine if you have something as simple as an electric blanket in an insulated battery box to keep them above freezing until you start driving and the batteries can keep themselves warm.
electric cars are about 80% efficient, meaning 85% of the power that goes into them becomes kinetic energy pushing you down the road
internal combustion engine cars are at best 25% efficient, ie 25% of the fossil fuel they burn becomes kinetic energy pushing you down the road.
this is being charitable because electric motors produce a lot more torque at low RPM than a gas engine...
so if 1 liter of gasoline makes 1KW
if you burn it in a power plant, you get 800 watts out, and if you take the 800 watts and transmit it to your house you get an average of 90% efficiency so 720 watts gets to your car
your car takes the 720 watts and turns 80% of it into kinetic forward motion which is 576watts
take that same 1000 watts of gasoline and burn it in your car and you only get 250 watts of forward motion.
I think a greater than twofold difference in efficiency is worthy of respect, as it results in a reduction in green house gasses by over 50%.
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in cold weather batteries only have a problem if they are stored cold... the a large part of the 20% inefficiency is heat lost due to the batteries heating up while drawing current.
electric cars work fine if you have something as simple as an electric blanket in an insulated battery box to keep them above freezing until you start driving and the batteries can keep themselves warm.
