The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Fabius]

Option 2 is to try and take over the LPC from inside itself and remake it into a party supportive of firearms ownership.

In relation to Option 2 in the above quote, the below concerns about the Liberal Party’s leadership rules in a different thread are relevant.

40,000 supporters could decide the next Liberal leader. As it’s an interesting thought experiment, could the Canadian firearms community mass enough votes to sway the Liberal Party leadership race?

From Paul Wells. More on some Liberals’ worries about what their loosey-goosey leadership rules could mean.

The Second Finance Ministers Club

Notes on a capital city in slightly-amused shock

paulwells.substack.com

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Liberal Party Memberships are free.

And they tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and they tell two friends.....................

Giddiup.

 

[RangerRay]

If the gun owner’s hijack attempt runs against Team Hamas’ hijack attempt and the pro-life hijack attempt, which hijack attempt prevails?

 

[Fabius]

Depends on the objectives I suppose. I suspect Hamas and Pro life would have the objective to achieve control of the liberals. Gun owners having control over the Liberals would be good but having the Liberals simply decimated by infighting and saddled with a completely unelectable leader could be an objective.

Vote in not your candidate but vote in the weakest, most unambiguously unelectable candidate, with the aim of destroying the LPC and relegating it to a fringe party not taking it over.

More risky option strategically since it would lead likely to an eventual NDP government at some point but various provincial NDP governments and Layton and Mulcair have shown that the federal NDP could potentially shift more centrist. Ironically the NDP seems more reasonable on gun control simply because they aren’t as tied to the gun control lobbyists.

Again an interesting thought experiment.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You'd be diluting the vote/ hold other interests will be trying to gain.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Finland, which shares a border with Russia, plans to build 300 new shooting ranges as interest in national defense surge

Finland — NATO's newest member — shares a 830-mile long border with Russia.

www.businessinsider.com

Finland, as a country, plans to expand the number of firearms ranges available to civilians and military to allow more civilians to become proficient in shooting.
Quite a contrast to Canada, one country's leadership views having citizens skilled with weapons as a net positive and seek to support them, the other country's current leadership views legal firearms owners as dangerous because they practice.

I understand the geopolitical nuances at play here but nonetheless its an interesting contrast.

We used to be like that, it is part of the reason Canada produced some excellent marksmen during two world wars. Up into the late 70s there was tons of range access for civilians. I remember talking with older guys about how they would show up on certain days, be given a Lee Enfield to shoot, provided the ammo on chargers to shoot and not even have to clean the rifle afterwards for free.

Obviously those days are gone but even in the 90s there was still a level of connection as the whole reason the AR-15 was restricted instead of prohibited in the 90s was due to service rifle competitions.

 

[Haggis]

We used to be like that, it is part of the reason Canada produced some excellent marksmen during two world wars. Up into the late 70s there was tons of range access for civilians. I remember talking with older guys about how they would show up on certain days, be given a Lee Enfield to shoot, provided the ammo on chargers to shoot and not even have to clean the rifle afterwards for free.

Obviously those days are gone but even in the 90s there was still a level of connection as the whole reason the AR-15 was restricted instead of prohibited in the 90s was due to service rifle competitions.

According to the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, since 2020 over 36% of RCMP approved and licensed existing Canadian ranges have closed. From approximately 1400 in 2019 to 891 in March 2024.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In NS we have provincial ranges all over the province that are also free to use, you just have to use the online booking site.

I use them and Nova Tactical's indoor range.

 

[Eaglelord17]

According to the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, since 2020 over 36% of RCMP approved and licensed existing Canadian ranges have closed. From approximately 1400 in 2019 to 891 in March 2024.

I can see it, between the increase in regulations regarding ranges, the continued urbanization and expansion (many ranges which were in the middle of nowhere back in the day are surrounded by homes now), and the difficulty to find volunteers to run them. Many are also run off leased land so when the lease comes up it isn’t always renewed.

It is a sad state. Plus to build a new range the regulations are substantially more difficult to meet than historic standards.

 

[KevinB]

The range requirements brought in 1994/95 made it very hard for open air ranges, as at least in Alberta when the APRA range outside of Calgary was inspected, the inspection criteria was based on a CAF field firing template and ricochet trace

I was on the APRA board back then and we got some accommodations, as we where able to show that we where not conducting pairs, section, platoon etc advance to contacts, as that is what the template is designed for, as well the fact our impact area was into a mountain.

It appeared to me back then that the goal was to separate the various shooters, as the Service Rifle group was taking some major heat, as the PWT ‘Rundown’ was being cited by the Gov as the rationale for the FFT.
Until that got explained it was clear that some other disciplines would be very willing to sell Service Rifle down the river.

 

[Haggis]

So, $597.9 M over 3 years allocated towards "Taking Assault Weapons off our Streets" with the majority of that ($541M) in FY 25/26, following the expiration of the amnesty. Bill Blair said the whole program would cost under $600M. He was right!

But what about the $100M already spent? Oh, look - a squirrel!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Pre-ban numbers of AR15s in Canada were up around 95,000. Up to 30,000 more AR15s are believed to have been bought last minute leading up to the ban.

Using those numbers, at a conservative price of $1500 a pop that's $187,500,000.

Most AR15 owners I know have multiple other now-banned firearms on top of their AR15s. $600M is a ridiculously cowbell number - $2B (or more) seems more accurate. I'd guess closer to 3.

 

[Halifax Tar]

None of this is going to happen. Its a political show. And it will all be dead when the CPC takes over.

 

[Eaglelord17]

None of this is going to happen. Its a political show. And it will all be dead when the CPC takes over.

Exactly, and they will use it for political leverage with the ‘Conservatives are putting weapons of war back on our streets’

 

[Haggis]

None of this is going to happen. Its a political show. And it will all be dead when the CPC takes over.

It's likely the retail collection and disposal will be complete by the amnesty date. No retailer is going to want to hold onto and insure unsellable inventory for another 24 to 36 months until all this idiocy is overturned with amendments to the Firearms Act. A couple of friends who own firearms businesses have already received their instructions on how submit their bids for compensation and the deadlines to do so, which are early in 2025.

There's only $50M allocated for FY 24/25. Given that $100M has been spent so far without a single gun confiscation to show for it means that that $50M will probably be eaten up by program costs. I doubt anyone will see compensation paid any time soon, if ever.

Unless Trudeau does something drastic, the individual confiscation will not occur under this government. The bans, however, will remain in force until amendments to the Firearms Act are passed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's likely the retail collection and disposal will be complete by the amnesty date. No retailer is going to want to hold onto and insure unsellable inventory for another 24 to 36 months until all this idiocy is overturned with amendments to the Firearms Act. A couple of friends who own firearms businesses have already received their instructions on how submit their bids for compensation and the deadlines to do so, which are early in 2025.

There's only $50M allocated for FY 24/25. Given that $100M has been spent so far without a single gun confiscation to show for it means that that $50M will probably be eaten up by program costs. I doubt anyone will see compensation paid any time soon, if ever.

Unless Trudeau does something drastic, the individual confiscation will not occur under this government. The bans, however, will remain in force until amendments to the Firearms Act are passed.

This Gov wont make it to the amnesty date. It will be dead by Mar '25.

The Cons will have ample opportunity to quash this.

Exactly, and they will use it for political leverage with the ‘Conservatives are putting weapons of war back on our streets’

I don't think that has the effect it used to.

 

[Haggis]

This Gov wont make it to the amnesty date. It will be dead by Mar '25.

Maybe.

The Cons will have ample opportunity to quash this.

They will, but it will take time thanks to the way C-21 and C-71 have made it impossible to roll back OIC bans with OICs. My CPC MP told me in October that they will get it done, but it's not a high priority, and this was before Trump became a factor for rhe next government to deal with.

I don't think that has the effect it used to.

I would agree as long as there's not another Portapique, Moncton or similar event that pushes this back to the front and centre before the election.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Nobody will be seriously listening to either the red or orange liberals after the election. All eyes will be on the new government. The resulting opposition will be detested by the citizenry and paid little mind.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe.

I'll buy you a case of Toller Gold if it lives passed the end of Mar home boy.

They will, but it will take time thanks to the way C-21 and C-71 have made it impossible to roll back OIC bans with OICs. My CPC MP told me in October that they will get it done, but it's not a high priority, and this was before Trump became a factor for rhe next government to deal with.

I think they have to. The CPC owns the firearms community. And they can use it as a cost cutter measure.

I would agree as long as there's not another Portapique, Moncton or similar event that pushes this back to the front and centre before the election.

Portapique didn't have that affect. It back fired on them. He did it all with illegal guns. Anywho, I think the tides have shifted on this.

 

[IKnowNothing]

They will, but it will take time thanks to the way C-21 and C-71 have made it impossible to roll back OIC bans with OICs. My CPC MP told me in October that they will get it done, but it's not a high priority, and this was before Trump became a factor for rhe next government to deal with.

Have to wonder how fast this would get through the senate