The Military is Inapropriate for Christmas Parade

[a_majoor]

Andpro, while in a perfect world James has the power of right on his side, he is currently trapped in a situation where there is a blatent abuse of power going on. If he is to openly challenge his teachers under these conditions, what do you think will happen in terms of his marks, report cards and potential letters of reference?

I alluded to this somewhat with the remark about University, critical thinking is also not encouraged, and not too subtly according to many accounts (there are even threads in various Army.ca boards about this). If you are forced to write papers agreeing with the professor's "Marxist interpretation" of geography to get a passing grade, for example, you will either conform or risk loosing your acreditation (degree).

I gave James a suggestion of a relatively non confrontational means to defend himself, but he could still be accused of haveing a bad attitude or written up in a negative light because of this. I would not put it past some of these people to use phone interviews or personal meetings with University registrars offices to kill James chances without leaving a paper trail.

 

[Trinity]

+1 majoor

 

[vonGarvin]

I was at last year's parade in St John, NB.  Lots of pretty floats, candy and stuff for the kids.  Then there came along a white pick up.  No decorations.  Two guys walking behind.  I thought that maybe some frat boys got mixed up in the parade and were just trying to beat the traffic to the liquour store.  Then one of the fella's says, with a lisping voice, "Christmas is about love" or something like that.  That's when I realised that he and his partner were wearing rainbow coloured scarves.  My daughter asked me what they were, basically, "what's that all about?"  I just muttered something about "Those two fellas just wanted to say Merry Christmas to us, I guess".

Just looked like a square peg desitned for a round hole: didn't quite fit in.  Now, had that truck had lights, whistles and bells on it, well, that I could understand.


In other words: make an effort

 

[ArmyRick]

In James case, teachers in a public education system have one job, to TEACH, not PREACH.

I have offered to help J.ames by writing a letter to his school's principal. If he accepts, I intend to write a well worded letter explaining about duty, honour, integrity and discipline (the four army ethoes) and the meaning of unlimited liability (AKA Soldiers prepared to scarifice themselves for the greater good).

 

[geo]

Well here goes.........
1.  The Cdn military is part of the community so YES it should participate in the community events - XMASS parade included.

2.  The use of a LAV or a LEO to me is somewhat inapropriate.  Would any self respecting CO / RSM even think of bringing their their troops with C7s into church for church parade? - don't think so

3. WRT the use of a LAV or a LEO:  Yeah they are the tools of our trade and we are who we are BUT, there are times when they should be left in the arms room / compound while we celebrate with the community.  There are better ways of being a good neighbour.

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

In my local newspaper in Orillia, ont. The Military has participated on our Christmas parade for the last couple of years. This year they brought a LAV and the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) has a new Police Commissioner named Julian Fantino. He decided to ride in the LAV. People were disgusted to see a "Tank" in a christmas parade. This tank had support our troops banners on both sides. One Lady wrote to the newspaper and said " I thought the OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino riding in an army tank was inapropriate. What does an army tank have to do with Christmas anyway? Didn't he know it was peace week! "

Never mind the tank, I always find Julian Fantino inappropriate.  If I was there and saw that I would be paralyzed between two conflicting emotions.  One to throw stuff and boo -  shouting a few choice insults, because it is him (If you lived DT Toronto you'd know... or if you've seen the movie Sin City - yea that bad) and the other to not in anyway to show disrespect to any float that carries the banner "support our troops".  It would be a tough call... I have a good arm,  if I could peg him off cleanly with my diet coke, with limited risk to the sign... well it would be situational call.  Any respect I ever had, or could have had, for McGuinty was forever shattered when he appointed Fantino to his new position.  Since these people didn't complain when the tank was there in the past,  ask yourself what is new; is it Fantino? 

On an aside, what is a "Marxist interpretation" of geography?  All the countries on the map are either Red for liberated or different shades of red? 

 

[Cloud Cover]

Christmas!?! Bah! Humbug!

But: The spelling in this thread is atrocious.  :rage:  For shame!  :tsktsk:

I am also appauld with that.

 

[cplcaldwell]

I've been struggling with this a bit.

geo, +1 you got what I wanted to say nailed.

(Besides I asked my wife last night and she said virtually the same thing )

 

[a_majoor]

On an aside, what is a "Marxist interpretation" of geography?  All the countries on the map are either Red for liberated or different shades of red? 

Bizzare as it sounds, Zell, a friend of mine who is in the post graduate geography program in Western claims this is actually the case with several of his profs over the years. Since geography encompasses human agency in the use and modification of geological structures and formations, Marxists can lay claim to this area of study. (I would be very interested to see a Marxist interpretation of Geology, however  ).

Not having studied geology since high school, I can hardly even imagine what this entails (it was bad enough studying economics in college, although I did have one "Chicago School" prof who came from Western to teach our class to even things out), although I suspect a lot of it has to do with how undefinable "historical forces" influence the settlement of the land and its use. History "should" be an antidote to this sort of thinking, but of course History is often taught from this sort of perspective as well.

 

[cplcaldwell]

Oh and Zell,

Marxist Geography, you need to read David Harvey, Social Justice and the City and Limits to Capital.

 

[niner domestic]

It would be interesting to see how many of the children who attended the parade, have "tanks" and such listed on their letters to Santa.  Even more interesting would be to see the breakdown of "tank" like toy sales in the immediate area , who would have been * spoiler - for those who still believe in Santa, stop reading* purchased by the adults.  I'd be also interested in seeing the shelves of the dept store in situ, to see if they contain displays of military like toys, and if evident, ask why are these same people complaining about the parade not complaining about the toy sections?

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

Oh and Zell,

Marxist Geography, you need to read David Harvey, Social Justice and the City and Limits to Capital.

Thank you,  if I see them I'll give them a read through.  I'm kinda swamped right now with finals coming up and as annoying as it sounds I have to read The cruel Sea and I can't speed read it.  In an inverted rhythm and odd voice the book I find the book.  It is a great read,  I just have to do it slowly.

Now I thought that having a military presence at Christmas parades was traditional, especially in a time of war.  Being there for those who are away. But apart from the tank and the sign this had nothing to do with the military.  Were any of those letters saying the sign was inappropriate?  I want to believe that people up there also don't like Fantino, but I could just be cranky because I'm forming a new beret - a little to tight.

I know that there are people out there who, forwhatever reason, don't want us to be in Afghanistan and will voice opposition to anything they perceive as furthering the cause of us being there.  Annoying,  but it is true.  In my personal experience when a group has to take pot shots from the side,  not reveling themselves as an organised group,  it is usually a sign their position is so weak they can be ignored or mocked into submission.
(You just know the local NDPers/et al. had a little grassroots awareness campain, you just know it)

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

Bizzare as it sounds, Zell, a friend of mine who is in the post graduate geography program in Western claims this is actually the case with several of his profs over the years. Since geography encompasses human agency in the use and modification of geological structures and formations, Marxists can lay claim to this area of study. (I would be very interested to see a Marxist interpretation of Geology, however  ).

Here you go http://www.marxist.com/science/dialecticsofgeology.html

 

[a_majoor]

Here you go http://www.marxist.com/science/dialecticsofgeology.html

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!! 

 

[x-grunt]

Coming back to the topic for a minute:
I saw nothing that suggests the Orillia paper was against the military in the parade. Sounds like they support the CF.

The few critical letters I read seemed to react to "the tank" not the CF involvement. So the thread title is somewhat misleading.

For the record I think the LAV is inappropriate for a Christmas parade and I'm very pro-military. Seeing one rolling around with Santa and elves would be jarring to me too. IMO It does not fit the message of Christmas.
Yes, there may be other inappropriate floats etc. at Xmas parades.  Let them catch all the bad publicity.

To be clear, I think having the military in the parade is wonderful and I heartily applaud it - let's have a band or two and maybe a "support our troops" float or troops handing out goodies to the kids, or some such. Let's leave anything resembling a weapon at the armoury for a more suitable venue.

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

I have to agree with you x-grunt,

But I still want to keep my anti-fantino rant out there. 

 

[211RadOp]

The last two, atleast, parades in Kingston have been lead by a Bison from 2 EW Sqn. Now of course Kingston has a much larger military presence than Orillia, but there has never been any kind of negative reaction that I have seen.

 

[exgunnertdo]

My former reserve unit (arty) has put an MLVW pulling a gun in the parade for the past several years.  Never heard any complaints, and it fell into our unit training plan as one of our "community footprint" activities.  Like any public activity we did, the kids and the veterans loved it!!  You can't please everyone.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Okay, why is this getting so friggin complicated?   ???  Who do you think the parade is for?  
THE BLOODY KIDS!!
And kids love military stuff.  Having the LAV was probably great for them to see.  I am willing to bet if the whole parade consisted of snipers in Gillie suits, LAV's, LEO's and Tac helo flying overwatch the kids would have been stoked.  Hell, put Santa in a Bison and watch the kids swoon.  The only reason the parents are there is to take the kids to the parade.  It isn't for them.  

And Zell, what is your beef with Comm. Fantino?

 

[MOOXE]

The only reason the parents are there is to take the kids to the parade.  It isn't for them. 

Can you see whats wrong in this statement?