The Never-ending Roaming of Navy Accoutrements

[dimsum]

I think some people might not know they are GOFO’s without the epaulets

Yes...because RCN Flag Officers are always mistaken without epaulets...

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yes...because RCN Flag Officers are always mistaken without epaulets...

I generally look for girth as my first indication

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Yes...because RCN Flag Officers are always mistaken without epaulets...

Apparently that is why the Army GOFOs pushed for a return to Maple Leaf ranks and Lasagna Braid. The urban legend I heard was one was not given proper compliments in DEU during the transition to Pips & Crowns.

"How on earth will anyone know I'm a general?"
"Sir, if the troops don't know you're the General, you're spending too much time in the office..."

 

[RangerRay]

Apparently that is why the Army GOFOs pushed for a return to Maple Leaf ranks and Lasagna Braid. The urban legend I heard was one was not given proper compliments in DEU during the transition to Pips & Crowns.

"How on earth will anyone know I'm a general?"
"Sir, if the troops don't know you're the General, you're spending too much time in the office..."

They don’t seem to have that problem in every other army in the Commonwealth…

 

[dimsum]

Apparently that is why the Army GOFOs pushed for a return to Maple Leaf ranks and Lasagna Braid. The urban legend I heard was one was not given proper compliments in DEU during the transition to Pips & Crowns.

"How on earth will anyone know I'm a general?"
"Sir, if the troops don't know you're the General, you're spending too much time in the office..."

If the sword and baton on top, and the gorget patches don't give it away...

I do sort of get that though. It's still only on one part of the body (shoulders), vice the RCAF (sleeves and shoulders). Yes, the lasagna is weird but it doesn't change with successive GOFO ranks.

But I digress...

 

[Edward Campbell]

Bling tells a story. It's a resume written in cloth and tin.

The fact my wife of 13 years, who has an eye for detail to envy most SNCOs, can read a person's accomplishments off what they're wearing is a great indicator of its importance.

The problem I have, at least with the Army DEU, is how piss poorly its made and how uncomfortable it is on parade; in all weather. It's too damn hot for No. 1 in the summer, and we have an aversion to wearing gabardines in the winter (probably because you look like you're selling counterfit watches).

The Navy seems to be getting back on track with their traditions and its reflected in their dress. There seems to be a lot of "operational" hang ups within the Army about improving our dress uniforms... with the false belief that it will take money out of the procurement of capabilities and put it into Buttons and Bows. I would hope we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Until then, we'll keep doing it poorly and looking like ass whenever we throw on the last Hellyer holdout uniform.

True story ... not long after the introduction of the (then new) DEUs the Chief of Engineering and Maintenance, RAdm Ed Healey, got a nasty letter from Mrs Chuck Thomas, wife of the then COMMARCOM, complaining about the quality of the white shirts issued to the Navy. The specific problem was that the collars wrinkled - the root cause was the the specification (yes, we had Gov't of Canada specifications for everything) called up preshrunk cloth but failed to call for preshrunk thread! I investigated with our supply folks who did not try to lay the blame off on to Supply and Services Dept ... rather they pointed me to the minutes of a meeting of the CF Clothing and Dress Committee which said, explicitly, that the quality of the new dark and light blue and tan uniforms should not be better than the quality of the existing "CF greens."

Who was on that committee?
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.
.
.
.
.
COMARCOM

 

[Edward Campbell]

Our “Dickie” was French Grey and later moved to the three colour Patricia one.

I did not like them. I still have them somewhere however

I hated dickies - both Signals and The RCR loved 'em. It was a flippin' nightmare.

Anyway, I really quite liked the olive drab cotton scarf that the Army issued ... fast forward to 1978 ... I am appointed to command 1 CDN Sig Regt which is being reformed into 1st Canadian Division HQ and Signal Regt and, as we continue with a series of exercises* designed to "right-size" (and shape) a Div HQ and practice Bde HQs in working in a Div I am the Commanding Officer of the Div Comd and his staff when they come to the field.

The A/GOC (General Officer Commanding) in my old friend (really) and mentor and former (RCR) CO, BGen Blake Baille. He and the staff officers arrive in the exercise location all sporting brightly coloured dickies. I and my officers and soldiers are all either bare necked or wearing a loose, issued, cotton scarf. BGen Baille is nothing if not observant and perceptive. He calls me aside and says, "I think it's appropriate that I introduce you to the staff and remind them about how a HQ & Sig Regt works ... he does so and includes in his remarks an admonition that the staff must set an example for all the soldiers by adhering to HQ and Sig Regt dress instruction which he say, pulling off his RCR ascot (It was The RCR, for heaven's sake, they wouldn't call it a dickie!), do not include multi-coloured, synthetic dickies!

----
* Known, officially, as the Rite Simple series of exercises, called by the soldiers, due to their often tedious nature, as 'Rite F'ing Complicated.'

 

[lenaitch]

I'm not against bling per say, I just don't want to look like Zhukov.

When speaking of small town police chiefs, a former boss called them Manuel Noriega uniforms. It seemed the smaller the department, the blingier the suit.

 

[FSTO]

I generally look for girth as my first indication

Now that you're out of the RCN, they've gotten skinnier. Cause and effect?

 

[FSTO]

True story ... not long after the introduction of the (then new) DEUs the Chief of Engineering and Maintenance, RAdm Ed Healey, got a nasty letter from Mrs Chuck Thomas, wife of the then COMMARCOM, complaining about the quality of the white shirts issued to the Navy. The specific problem was that the collars wrinkled - the root cause was the the specification (yes, we had Gov't of Canada specifications for everything) called up preshrunk cloth but failed to call for preshrunk thread! I investigated with our supply folks who did not try to lay the blame off on to Supply and Services Dept ... rather they pointed me to the minutes of a meeting of the CF Clothing and Dress Committee which said, explicitly, that the quality of the new dark and light blue and tan uniforms should not be better than the quality of the existing "CF greens."

Who was on that committee?
.
.
.
.
.
.
COMARCOM

Wow! who'd of thunk eh?
The DEU's were introduced in the mid 80's right? When I joined in 89, the ss shirts seemed to have been made of heavy plastic. And the LS shirts had collars that would curl upwards after two or three washes. They never solved those issues until the late 90's.

 

[Edward Campbell]

LS shirts had collars that would curl upwards after two or three washes.

That, I think, was the issue (it's 35+ years ago): pre-shrunk cloth was called for in the contract but the same contract failed to specify pre-shrunk thread; the threads shrunk after a few washings, the cloth didn't. But the contractor only did as "we" asked and the procurement department people used the standards "we" (DND) said were appropriate.

 

[FSTO]

That, I think, was the issue (it's 35+ years ago): pre-shrunk cloth was called for in the contract but the same contract failed to specify pre-shrunk thread; the threads shrunk after a few washings, the cloth didn't. But the contractor only did as "we" asked and the procurement department people used the standards "we" (DND) said were appropriate.

"we" are stupid.

 

[mariomike]

When speaking of small town police chiefs, a former boss called them Manuel Noriega uniforms. It seemed the smaller the department, the blingier the suit.

Professional heroes?

What I noticed on emergency operations was the lower left sleeve.

One leaf for every five years on your respective department.

Some U.S. departments are more "blingy" than others. ( attachment )

Then comes the subject of mixing federal, provincial and municipal bling.

 

[KevinB]

Wow! who'd of thunk eh?
The DEU's were introduced in the mid 80's right? When I joined in 89, the ss shirts seemed to have been made of heavy plastic. And the LS shirts had collars that would curl upwards after two or three washes. They never solved those issues until the late 90's.

For the Army the LS DEU shirts where much nicer material compared to the Tan SS and similar to the Tan LS . I think honestly the Green Winter LS where the same green LS shirt from the old unifersal greens — I didn’t have an old wrapper to compare.

They did need to get the collars starched to not turn - but the Army tan short sleeve shirts seemed to be made of nylon - and where significantly unpleasant. The same awful material was retained when Army Tan DEU’s died and the summer green shirt sucked as bad as the old tan (the Garrison dress shirt eventually). Several folks I knew who had to wear DEU every day got extra Tan LS shirts and had them cut to SS - the material actually breathed and didn’t cause nipple
Chafing when sweaty like the SS tan did.


I found it interesting to see the tan Cyprus clothes where much nicer material than the DEU Tan’s.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Wow! who'd of thunk eh?
The DEU's were introduced in the mid 80's right? When I joined in 89, the ss shirts seemed to have been made of heavy plastic. And the LS shirts had collars that would curl upwards after two or three washes. They never solved those issues until the late 90's.

I have two of those old white S/S shirts and wear them. I prefer them to current transparent shirts. All my chest tattoos are very noticeable in the new ones.

Now @FSTO how do we get proper naval rank insignia for Naval NCMs, and how do get anchors for all as cap badges ?

 

[FSTO]

Now @FSTO how do we get proper naval rank insignia for Naval NCMs, and how do get anchors for all as cap badges ?

Hmm, well I could hypnotize Angus and like the Moustache Badge, he'd just order it and it'd be done!!!!

Seriously? We'd need to put together a rock solid proposal to the Dress Committee (and get willing mutinous bastards/co conspirators placed on said committee) and push it through.

 

[FSTO]

I prefer them to current transparent shirts.

I wear an undershirt.

I'm full of good ideas!

 

[dapaterson]

How about the RCN de-toxify their workplaces, fix ships, and create a place where people want to serve, and not where sexually assaulting NWOs become admirals instead?

 

[Halifax Tar]

How about the RCN de-toxify their workplaces, fix ships, and create a place where people want to serve, and not where sexually assaulting NWOs become admirals instead?

Yup, and we have other threads on this forum for that discussion.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hmm, well I could hypnotize Angus and like the Moustache Badge, he'd just order it and it'd be done!!!!

Seriously? We'd need to put together a rock solid proposal to the Dress Committee (and get willing mutinous bastards/co conspirators placed on said committee) and push it through.

I'm in! Can I wear an eye patch ?

I wear an undershirt.

I'm full of good ideas!

That's why you're in charge