The Numbering of Squadrons

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ok why is it we have all of our air force squadrons in the 400 series while there is a lone man out with 103 Squadron? Why the odd departure in sequence?

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Ok why is it we have all of our air force squadrons in the 400 series while there is a lone man out with 103 Squadron? Why the odd departure in sequence?

Doesnt' the 400 thing date back to the Second World War for easy recognition of which country in the Commonwealth the Sqn belonged to??
Must Goggle...I remember reading about it when visiting the museum in Comox.

 

[aesop081]

Yes indeed it comes from the allocation from WW2...there were a few exceptions later on

103 and 880 sqn being 2 of them

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

thanks guys thats clears it up.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

thanks guys thats clears it up.

Expansion of the RCAF overseas in the spring of 1941, and a new policy of Canadianization created a new system of squadron numbering to avoid confusion with RAF squadrons. The 400-449 block was allocated to the RCAF. Number 110 became Number 400, Number 1 became Number 401 and Number 112 became Number 402. The first RCAF unit formed overseas was Number 403 Fighter Squadron on the 1st of March 1941.

http://www.rcafmuseum.on.ca/ww2.htm

 

[George Wallace]

There were numerous Squadrons that didn't fall into the 400 series.  Some are from the RCN, but some were early RCAF Transport Sqns.  The Operational Flying Squadrons were:

5 RCAF (Volando Vincimus);
VIII RCAF (Determined to Defend);
10 RCN (Superbia in Progressum);
32 RCN (NIHIL QUAM ARDUUM);
33 RCN (FINIS CORONAT OPUS);
103 RCAF (SEEK AND SAVE);
115 RCAF (BEWARE);
119 RCAF (NOLI ME TANGERE);
145 RCAF (FUROR NON SINE FRENIS);
162 RCAF (SECTABIMUR USQUE PER IMA);
400 RCAF (PERCUSSURI VIGILES);
401 RCAF (MORS CELERRIMA HOSTIBUS);
402 RCAF (WE STAND ON GUARD);
403 RCAF (STALK AND STRIKE);
404 RCAF (READY TO FIGHT);
405 RCAF (CUCIMUS);
406 RCAF (WE KILL BY NIGHT);
407 RCAF (TO HOLD ON HIGH);
409 RCAF (MEDIA NOA MERIDIES NOSTER);
410 RCAF (NOCTIVAGA);
411 RCAF (INIMICUS INIMICO);
412 RCAF (PROMPTUS AD VINDICTAM);
413 RCAF (AD VOGO;A,IS IMDIS);
414 RCAF (TOTIS VIRIBUS);
415 RCAF (AD METAM);
416 RCAF (AD SALTUM PARATUS);
417 RCAF (SUPPORTING LIBERTY AND JUSTICE);
418 RCAF (PIYAUTAILILI);
419 RCAF (MOOSA ASWAUITA);
420 RCAF (PUGNAMUS FINITUM);
421 RCAF (BELLICUM CECINERE);
422 RCAF (THIS ARM SHALL DO IT);
423 RCAF (QUAERIMUS ET PETIMUS);
424 RCAF (CASTIGANDOS CASTIGAMUS);
425 RCAF (JE TE PLUMERAI);
426 RCAF (ON WINGS OF FIRE);
427 RCAF (FERTE MANUS CERTAS);
428 RCAF (USQUE AD FINEM);
429 RCAF (FORTUNAE NIHIL);
430 RCAF (CELERITER CERTOQUE);
431 RCAF (THE HATITEN RONTERIIOS);
432 RCAF (SAEVITER AD LUCEM);
433 RCAF (QUI S'Y FROTTE S'Y PIQUE);
434 RCAF (IN EXCELSIS VINCIMUS);
435 RCAF (CERTI PROVEHENDI);
436 RCAF (ONUS PORTAMUS);
437 RCAF (OMNIA PASSIM);
438 RCAF (GOING DOWN);
439 RCAF (FANGS OF DEATH);
440 RCAF (KA GANAWAITAK SAGUENAY);
441 RCAF (STALK AND KILL);
442 RCAF (UN DIEU UNE REINE UN COEUR);
443 RCAF (OUR STING IS DEATH);
444 RCAF (STRIKE SURE STRIKE SWIFT);
445 RCAF (STRIKE AS LIGHTNING);
446 RCAF (VIGILANCE SWIFTNESS STRENGTH);
447 RCAF (MONJAK ECOWI);
448 RCAF (IN AGEN DO PRAESTANTES);
449 RCAF (UNANIMI CUM RATIONE);
450 RCAF (BY AIR TO BATTLE);
870 RCN (INTERCEDIMUS ET DELEMUS);
880 RCAF (REPERER ET DETRUIRE);
922 RCN (INDAGANDO ET PERCUTIENDO)

 

[Zoomie]

103 Sqn has been in existence in Newfoundland since 1947 - well before their entry into Canadian Confederation.  Hence the RAF Squadron numbering.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Then there is VU32, VU33 & MR880. Utility and Maritime Reconnaissance Squadrons

 

[aesop081]

Then there is VU32, VU33 & MR880. Utility and Maritime Reconnaissance Squadrons

Those sqn ( VU 32 and 33) were renumbered later on to a 400 series......880 remained until the end of the CP-121 Tracker

 

[Good2Golf]

Interestingly, we busted through our 400-449 allocation with all the Bomarc squadrons of the 60's.  450 Sqn was originally an Australian Squadron serving in North Africa, flying the P40 Warhawk, but disbanded in August of 1945. 

450 RAAF Squadron's motto would clearly not survive first contact with the press today... 

 

[George Wallace]

RCAF 450 Sqn Crest:

 

[George Wallace]

A very brief history of many of the Sqns can be found at http://www.rcaf.com/ 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

So from Georges reply#5 if the military so chooses, can they reform the above mentioned squadrons?

 

[Inch]

A very brief history of many of the Sqns can be found at http://www.rcaf.com/ 

That's a pretty good link.

In a nutshell, if it's not a 400-450 numbered sqn, it's probably a hold over for history's sake from either RAF numbering (eg 103 Sqn) or RCN numbering (ie VU32 or 880 Sqn). Interesting tidbit, according to rcaf.com, 880 Sqn was never officially disbanded, it's just zero manned.

Then if you want to get really into Sqn numbering, the Air Maintenance Sqns are numbered after the Wing they serve, except for some reason 1AMS in 4 Wing Cold Lake. 12AMS is located on 12 Wing Shearwater.

So from Georges reply#5 if the military so chooses, can they reform the above mentioned squadrons?

Any one of them can be reactivated. 409 was recently reactivated as a Tactical Fighter Sqn when 441 and 416 were merged into 409.

 

[George Wallace]

Some of those Squadrons have been "Deactivated" and "Reactivated" in the past.  I know 444 Sqn was Disbanded in Lahr, and is now a SAR/Cbt Support Sqn in Goose Bay.

Formed at St. Hubert on 1 March 1953, No. 444 Squadron bore the first new number (i.e. which had no war-time predecessor) in the post-war R.C.A.F. Six months later the squadron flew its Sabres overseas on "Leapfrog 4". The squadron joined No. 4 (Fighter) Wing at Baden-Soellingen, Germany in September. Selected as one of eight squadrons of the Air Division to be re-equipped with CF-104 Starfighter aircraft for a nuclear strike role, it was deactivated on 1 March 1963 and reactivated as Strike Attack on 27 May. When the Air Division was reduced to six squadrons, the squadron was once more deactivated on 1 April 1967. No. 444 Squadron was reformed as the air element of 1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade group stationed in Lahr, West Germany. The unit was equipped with CH-112 Nomad and CH-136 Kiowa helicopters.

In 1993, the squadron formed again at 5 Wing Goose Bay as 444 Combat Support Squadron equipped with the CH-146 Griffon.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Another link...

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/hist/rcafsqns_e.asp

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Those sqn ( VU 32 and 33) were renumbered later on to a 400 series......880 remained until the end of the CP-121 Tracker

IIRC, VU 32 & VU 33 were disbanded in 92. 880 MRS was taken to zero strength in 1990, but has not been disbanded.

 

[Inch]

IIRC, VU 32 & VU 33 were disbanded in 92. 880 MRS was taken to zero strength in 1990, but has not been disbanded.

Another one was HS 50, it survived until 1974 when it was split into HS 423 and 443 Sqns. HS stood for helicopter anti-submarine sqn and was changed in the 90's to MH, maritime helicopter sqns.

 

[Astrodog]

A Slight hijack here, When 439 and 425 merged they kept the 425 name.. I Understand this was due to 425 being a historic french-Canadian squadron.. Now when 441 and 416 came together, would it not have been a better cost-saving measure to keep one of the squadrons active and have them consolodate into an existing squadron? 409 seems to be an odd choice, especially the motto of 'midnight is our noon' being a little odd for a non-night fighter specific TFS squadron. If I am not mistaken when the east coast CP-140 Squadrons merged they also kept one of the existing squadrons active, can anybody comment on this?

 

[Inch]

A Slight hijack here, When 439 and 425 merged they kept the 425 name.. I Understand this was due to 425 being a historic french-Canadian squadron.. Now when 441 and 416 came together, would it not have been a better cost-saving measure to keep one of the squadrons active and have them consolodate into an existing squadron? 409 seems to be an odd choice, especially the motto of 'midnight is our noon' being a little odd for a non-night fighter specific TFS squadron. If I am not mistaken when the east coast CP-140 Squadrons merged they also kept one of the existing squadrons active, can anybody comment on this?

439 CS Sqn flys Griffons. 433 TFS was merged with 425 TFS. It's really not that expensive to stand up a Sqn, it was probably their choice and it came out of the two former Sqn's budgets. As for 409 being a night fighter Sqn, why is that so odd? Look at 406 Sqn, they were the first night fighter Sqn and they're now the Sea King Operational Training Sqn. And FYI, there really is no such thing as a night fighter sqn when NVGs come into play, on goggles, midnight truly is their noon.