"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[McG]

With all due respect, and acknowledging that I have never even seen a 'tacvest'........I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that the number of UCR's is at the level they[whomever they are] say it is.

That is the number which are open.  DSSPM has over 1800 closed UCRs but, with many not having subjects or the NSN fields filled out, it would be nearly impossible to determine exactly howmany are hidden in there ... they are as good as nonexistent.  Once the file is closed, you can only find it through a search of closed files.

On the other hand, how many UCR's are initiated but due to incorrect/incomplete information, procedural confusion or CoC inaction don't make it to the end OPI?

The end OPI (LCMM) gets the UCR immediately through the electronic filing system.  The initiator needs to ensure it gets the CoC endorsement by adding immediate supervisor to the CC line of the automatically generated email.  At a certain level, the unit ET needs to be CC'ed and then pass this to the Bde authority.  If the unit is endorsing a UCR and the Bde is not, then that is the place for the CoC to get involved (CO to Bde).  Once the Bde has endorsed it, then it has the weight that the LCMM must respond.

 

[armyvern]

But yesterday you said something the lines that the ONLY way to make CTS notice is to "flood the system".

Sounds to me like they already had a reservoir dam built beforehand......

I'm not disagreeing with ya Vern, but niether am I disagreeing with someone like RHFC Piper, its just that sometimes knowing SFA is a luxury that makes it easier to sit in the middle and question things that have been presented.

You misunderstood me. It is what Kev said the Units were requested to do by CTS (to submit only 1/Unit or 1/TF) years ago --- not what I said to do. I have been saying for years for individuals to get their OWN individual UCRs in -- because that's how it's supposed to be. The numbers show there is less than 10 "complaints in the system." I AGREE with you -- THIS IS WRONG.

The Units played CTS' game like they were asked and nothing happened (despite saving CTS some work as these items should have been individual UCRs from the get-go as an individual kit item).  So now -- I'm saying flood the system with individual UCRS as should have occured. Individuals have the RIGHT to do this if they have a problem with their kit, despite CTS not wanting to see individual UCRs on the item. That is the process, it should have been the process, and I have zero idea why CTS decided it should be different for their kit items. They'll have to explain that to you. I DO NOT agree with it.

But it didn't work when it got done their way (to save time & paperwork & effort I'm sure were the reasonings ...) -- so I say -- Do it the proper way ... and it'll be a whole lot more "subj line TV etc" UCRs that THEIR higher ups will be seeing that someone is going to have to explain and action.

 

[armyvern]

I think Vern is just politely explaining how to work the system.

  CTS wants 1 UCR per item for ea. unit
  which then allows for
  CTS/DLR to use those UCR's as "individual complaints

The counter to that method - is to flood them.  They may not like it -- but they broke the rules when they rebutt the UCR filled out in good faith by troops of the unit. 

Damn -- you're eloquent!! That's it!!

It always SHOULD have been individual UCRs, but yes the Units played nice -- CTS not so nice. So, it's time for the troops to do those individual UCRs and make CTS take notice.

 

[Dissident]

Fuck that shit.

Vern, PM inbound.

I got 40-50 people in my platoon who will fill in UCRs for anything and everything we are unhappy with. I challenge everyone, in every unit, to do the same.

 

[Neill McKay]

I wonder if it would be helpful to post the UCR form here as a .pdf or word file (if available and appropriate)?

 

[McG]

Don't want to pour water on the disappearing UCR thing & spoil a good conspiracy theory, but I had a chance to log in under someones account today & somethings don't seem to be adding up (but I'll leave a bit of a window open for those who really need the conspiracy).  The standard tech authority log in allows one to edit information such as the official item name, NSN & higher assemblies.  It does not allow the TA to edit the originators comments or to make the UCR disappear.  The TA account also has the ability to provide the Ottawa answer for its equipment.

If people are watching others' UCRs that appear to be changing, it may be that the originators have changed them (as nobody has yet to claim that one of their UCRs has changed on them).  If others' UCRs appear to be disappearing, it may be that they have been closed (and as I mentioned earlier these require a different search in order to view them).  However, to keep that window open for those who need it, it may be possible that there is are higher administrator accounts which do have the ability to edit originator's comments & make things disappear.  However, I suspect these accounts would be somewhere emotionally removed from projects & equipment management teams (such as in DLEPS for DGLEPM).

Now, if someone did submit a UCR that was made to disappear without being answered & closed in Ottawa, then that person would have the option of grieving the disappearance.  If the answering authorty's answer were inadequate for the originator, then the next step in the redress process is the CDS's office. 

 

[KevinB]

PM inbound

 

[X-mo-1979]

I've already got told to pack the chest rig away,tacvest only.Yet again another roto getting told it.
I was hoping to train as I plan on fighting,however I'll have to sneek it aboard my vehicle once I'm over there.

As per,some units find looking good more effective.

 

[Armymedic]

I've already got told to pack the chest rig away,tacvest only.Yet again another roto getting told it.
I was hoping to train as I plan on fighting,however I'll have to sneek it aboard my vehicle once I'm over there.

As per,some units find looking good more effective.

Figure after reading this website that you guys would have figured out that it is the official line. Work within the rules while training. And bring the gear out when you are away.

How many times do people need to be hit in the head before they learn to block?

 

[medaid]

Until brain matter oozes apparently.

Nope, because then they'd be dead, and other will come along to start the same process all over again.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Figure after reading this website that you guys would have figured out that it is the official line. Work within the rules while training. And bring the gear out when you are away.

How many times do people need to be hit in the head before they learn to block?

Long enough to be high enough on the totem pole to make these official lines.And forget the other official line's they preach as in "train as you would fight".

 

[Canadian Sig]

......Work within the rules while training. And bring the gear out when you are away......

Great idea...unless you work with the RSM.  :'( :'( :'(

 

[mckee19]

lastly put in a big dip of Skoal or redman and dont let the TV get you down  ^-^

I know its a Bit late, but will a dip of copenhagen work?

 

[OldSolduer]

If I may make a point here, as an Infantryman:
There are some good reasons why we tell the troops only issue kit:
1. It's easy on the supply side of things....for instance if every troop had his choice of small arms, you'd have very kind of calibre to resup under the sun. I know this is a "apples vs oranges" comparison, but if you think about how it applies to uniform items, you can see where it is applicable. Its the same for boots. It might be nice to have a pair of "Gucci" desert boots, but if you are way out beyond the wire and need new boots, you're going to get the issue pair, not the "Gucci" ones you paid $300 for.
2. Troops should look somewhat the same, not identical mind you, but similar. In wartime, looking different draws fire, in peacetime it draws Sergeants.

Now having said that, I understand why troops buy their own stuff. Sometimes for functionality, or comfort or whatever, even a morale booster, as long as it doesn't compromise the overall look of the company/pl, I say go for it. If a soldier can do his job better with it, it should be good to go. One has to use a touch of common sense when it comes to dress and equipement in the field.
I remember a CLS telling us it was not acceptable for the troops to buy Danner or Matterhorn boots, and wear them as it was "his" job toi supply the troops. One of the soldiers piped up that maybe it was time to get with the 90's and not the 60's. I tened to agree with the soldier.
I remember in 1977 when we weren't issued bush hats and had to patrol in green berets, and this was a Regular Force battalion, not the "militia". One of us had a bush hat, but wasn't allowed to wear it as it was not "uniform".
As for the armchair RSMs, most of them haven't been anywhere near a theatre of operations for some time, if at all

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I don't think anyone here that is of sound mind and body is advocating a different caliber wpn.  As far as clothing is concerned.  I recieved replacement boots sent by my wife and from Shilo before I recieved any from Clothing in A Stan.  Size 9 1/2  As a matter of fact I never did recieve any replacement issued desert boots from Clothing in A Stan.

 

[Armymedic]

And forget the other official line's they preach as in "train as you would fight".

You had to go there and get me going [rant]

Geez, unless we fight in attend to get a "check in the box" manner, its never been true. Unless of course, it is used as an excuse to cock the troops in some sort of cold/hungery/no sleep/endurance type of event that is done purely for chest pounding.

Training "as you would fight"...would that be for "this" war, or for "any" war. Cause we love to hear another "this is the way we did it in Afghanistan(Bosnia, Cyprus, Duetchland, Ethiopea, FRY, Golan, Haiti)" story.

[/rant]

 

[daftandbarmy]

If I may make a point here, as an Infantryman:
There are some good reasons why we tell the troops only issue kit:
1. It's easy on the supply side of things....for instance if every troop had his choice of small arms, you'd have very kind of calibre to resup under the sun. I know this is a "apples vs oranges" comparison, but if you think about how it applies to uniform items, you can see where it is applicable. Its the same for boots. It might be nice to have a pair of "Gucci" desert boots, but if you are way out beyond the wire and need new boots, you're going to get the issue pair, not the "Gucci" ones you paid $300 for.
2. Troops should look somewhat the same, not identical mind you, but similar. In wartime, looking different draws fire, in peacetime it draws Sergeants.

Now having said that, I understand why troops buy their own stuff. Sometimes for functionality, or comfort or whatever, even a morale booster, as long as it doesn't compromise the overall look of the company/pl, I say go for it. If a soldier can do his job better with it, it should be good to go. One has to use a touch of common sense when it comes to dress and equipement in the field.
I remember a CLS telling us it was not acceptable for the troops to buy Danner or Matterhorn boots, and wear them as it was "his" job toi supply the troops. One of the soldiers piped up that maybe it was time to get with the 90's and not the 60's. I tened to agree with the soldier.
I remember in 1977 when we weren't issued bush hats and had to patrol in green berets, and this was a Regular Force battalion, not the "militia". One of us had a bush hat, but wasn't allowed to wear it as it was not "uniform".
As for the armchair RSMs, most of them haven't been anywhere near a theatre of operations for some time, if at all

I've got two pictures here of me and my troops in NI in the 80s: Rural and Urban. The one in the city (under max observation from the locals, world press, RSM&CO, Bde Staff etc) has us all looking like little cardboard cutouts. We all wore almost exactly the same stuff, same weapons too; you know, kind of like the US Marines.  ;D

The one of us in 'the cuds' looks like we just stepped off a pirate ship, right down to the curved machete in the waistbelt (to cut through hedges). Different chest rigs, different day packs, barbour jackets, para smocks, windproof smocks, jungle lightweights trousers, combat pants, windproof pants, boots with puttees, high leg combat boots, Candian cbt boots (guess who?), Lundhags, scarfs on/ off, front teeth in/out. The only thing that is the same is the headgear, which happened to be a beret in this case as was worn by all troops in the Bn. That's essential, especially at night. Prevented a few embarrassing moments as I remember, especially when the QRF shows up unbriefed with fingers on triggers (oops).

IMHO, moral of the story: In town, dress the same - in the Boonies, go crazy but wear the same hats.

 

[Stauds]

Sometimes buying of non-issued kit is required. A fair number of us troops deploying on 1-08 have not even been issued our tan boots yet, and the forecast for the date of possible issue is "maybe before the tour, or while you are in theatre." Now this is fairly ridiculous, because I want to be able to break them in before I hit the sand, not to mention the fact how big a pain in the butt it would be to wear black for the first while. I'm reaching the point where I say **** it and buy my own. I want to get them issued to save $$$$ but I'm not waiting on the army to take its sweet time to get them to me. And the kicker is we've just been issued brand new Arid gas mask carriers for some reason.

 

[darmil]

Yeah the gas mask carrier is ridiculous I got my tan boots yesterday.i deploy ***** i was close to buying my own.I'm bringing my own rig and holster over anyway.


Edited by Roy Harding to delete deployment date (OPSEC)

 

[armyvern]

Sometimes buying of non-issued kit is required. A fair number of us troops deploying on 1-08 have not even been issued our tan boots yet, and the forecast for the date of possible issue is "maybe before the tour, or while you are in theatre." Now this is fairly ridiculous, because I want to be able to break them in before I hit the sand, not to mention the fact how big a pain in the butt it would be to wear black for the first while. I'm reaching the point where I say **** it and buy my own. I want to get them issued to save $$$$ but I'm not waiting on the army to take its sweet time to get them to me. And the kicker is we've just been issued brand new Arid gas mask carriers for some reason.

You do realize of course that there is a message out (for quite some time now) which expressly prohibits personnel from wearing Arid kit in Canada yes?

(Yes -- I know some people do it -- there's still a message that prohibits it.)

Your boots may not be issued prior to your deployment, but they would be issued prior to your arrival in the sandbox during your pitstop, as will PPE etc that is not issued until you're on ground.