The Threat of Modern Piracy- A Merged Thread

[The Bread Guy]

Remember this with the Russians rescuing a ship last week?
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/67625/post-931628.html#msg931628

Well, the pirates' health and safety committee needs to work on better water safety training - this, from the Wall Street Journal:

Ten pirates released from a Russian warship 300 miles out to sea may have drowned, according to Russian officials and colleagues of the pirates, raising fears of retaliation against other vessels plying East African waters.

The pirates were captured last week after they hijacked the Moscow University, a Liberian-flagged, Russian-operated oil tanker sailing off the Somali coast. A Russian warship came to the ship's rescue and apprehended the pirates. But after determining it would be too difficult to obtain a conviction, Russian officials said that they dropped plans to take the pirates to Moscow for trial.

Instead, like many other warships that have intercepted pirate skiffs, the Russian marines released the pirates — but not before removing weapons and navigation equipment from the boat several hundred miles from shore. Russian officials gave no explanation for removing the navigation equipment.

A Russian Defense Ministry spokesperson said radio signals from the boat disappeared about an hour after the release. "That could mean that they are dead," the spokesperson said ....

That said, I believe it's a bit of a leap to go from "we don't know where the boat ended up" to "they could be dead", but they could also be ashore, too.  And if they're not, well, Pirate Health/Safety team, UP!

 

[old medic]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=040_1273842916

 

[GAP]

excellent!!

 

[Yrys]

Trial of alleged Somali pirates opens in Netherlands, BBC News

The first European trial of alleged Somali pirates has opened in the Netherlands.
Five men have denied seeking to hijack a cargo ship registered in the Netherlands
Antilles, saying they were on a simple fishing trip. They were arrested in the Gulf
of Aden last year when their high-speed boat was intercepted by a Danish frigate.
They face up to 12 years in jail.

Pirates attempted more than 200 attacks off the Somali coast in 2009. Worldwide,
there were an estimated 400 pirate attacks.

'Just fishing'

The five men are being tried in Rotterdam district court. They were arrested in January
last year after allegedly preparing to board the cargo ship Samanyolu, which was
registered in the Caribbean. One of the suspects, Farah Ahmed Yusuf, 25, told the
court: "The intention was to fish." During the trip their engine broke down and they
tried to get the attention of a passing ship, he said.  As we came closer, we put our
hands in the air. While we had our hands in the air, they shot at us. They attacked us,"
he said, denying that he or his friends had fired any shots.

The Turkish crew on board the ship testified that the men sped towards the ship, firing
with rifles, and that they also fired a rocket at the ship's bridge, but it missed. The crew
say they fired flares at the small boat to keep it at bay until a Danish patrol vessel arrived.

One suspect, Sayid Ali Garaar, 39, pleaded with the court: "I am the victim here. They
destroyed my boat and put my life in danger." Speaking about life in lawless Somalia,
he added: "You sleep in your house while I have no country, no family. I have nothing."

The men's lawyers say they will challenge the jurisdiction of Dutch courts to try the case
because the cargo vessel was under the flag of the Netherlands Antilles, which has its
own justice system. This trial is expected to last five days, and the judgement is expected
to be handed down in the middle of next month.

Death sentence

The trial is being watched closely in other countries seeking a judicial solution to the
growing problem of piracy. Many of the suspects arrested in military operations in the
Gulf of Aden in recent years have had to be set free for lack of evidence, while nearby
African countries have been reluctant to take on the burden of trials.

Last Tuesday, a Yemeni court sentenced six Somali pirates to death and jailed six others
for 10 years each for hijacking a Yemeni oil tanker and killing two cabin crew in April last
year. Also last Tuesday, another Somali, Abdiwali Abdiqadir Muse, pleaded guilty in a New
York court to seizing a US ship and kidnapping its captain last year. He faces a minimum of
27 years in prison, and is expected to be sentenced in October.

Muse is the only surviving attacker of the Maersk Alabama merchant ship off Somalia's coast
in April 2009.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from the Washington Post, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

The Navy on Friday released 10 accused Somali pirates who had spent more than six weeks in custody aboard a U.S. warship in the Indian Ocean, Navy officials said.

U.S. officials said they tried to find a country willing to prosecute the alleged pirates, who were captured April 5 in the Arabian Sea by the McFaul, a U.S. guided missile destroyer. The McFaul apprehended the pirates after they had hijacked an Indian cargo ship and taken nine crew members hostage, Navy officials said.

The prisoners were removed from the McFaul on Friday and were being transported back to Somalia, Navy officials said.

U.S., European and other foreign navies that patrol the Indian Ocean have been reluctant to return captured pirates to Somalia -- a practice known as "catch-and-release" -- because the weak government there has little power to do anything about the problem.

 

[sean m]

The sad thing is that these poor Somalis have nothing to look forward to. Their country has been destroyed by civil war. They have not had a proper government since Abdirashid Ali Shermarke. There was Siad Barre but he was more of a dictator than anything else who seized power in a military junta. Then of course there was Mohamed Farrah Aidid who was just another warlord. Then of course there was the government standoff recently. This country also faces threats of being controlled by a radical islamist group, Al Shabab. There are also groups who are on the side of the government but completely operate on their own and doing what they wish.  Maybe a better idea would be to help improve the country; economically and socially ( Please dont take this for arrogance like I know everything, I am simple stating an idea  ) instead of arresting these poor people who are just trying to make a living. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

instead of arresting these poor people who are just trying to make a living.

You'll have to pardon me for not sharing any sympathy for the ones who are using piracy as a "way to make a living".  Personally I think they should all be shark food once caught.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The sad thing is that these poor Somalis have nothing to look forward to. Their country has been destroyed by civil war. They have not had a proper government since Abdirashid Ali Shermarke. There was Siad Barre but he was more of a dictator than anything else who seized power in a military junta. Then of course there was Mohamed Farrah Aidid who was just another warlord. Then of course there was the government standoff recently. This country also faces threats of being controlled by a radical islamist group, Al Shabab. There are also groups who are on the side of the government but completely operate on their own and doing what they wish.  Maybe a better idea would be to help improve the country; economically and socially ( Please dont take this for arrogance like I know everything, I am simple stating an idea  ) instead of arresting these poor people who are just trying to make a living. 

1. Take the eggs out of the fridge to let them warm a little, making the insides less viscous and more manageable.

2. Use a pin to make the hole and then widen it with the point of a knife.

3. Don’t make too small a hole otherwise the pressure of the exiting egg will cause more damage, collapsing your egg. 

4. Then suck the egg out.

 

[sean m]

I am very sorry, I did not mean to say that I know everything, I did not intend that at all. I stated that in the post. I am really not trying to act like I know everything I am sorry if it came out like that. I just wanted to add that it is very poor there and that these people do no have much and that it was my opinon that there should maybe be more dialogue than anything else. Again I am very sorry if I came out as arrogant, it is hard to have a discussion on the internet since all of the verbal ques such as tone are not available.

 

[Honey_Coombs]

You'll have to pardon me for not sharing any sympathy for the ones who are using piracy as a "way to make a living".  Personally I think they should all be shark food once caught.

Not everyone is simply engaging in piracy to "make a living." In Somalia, anyways, the pirates are the Coast Guard - not an official, or pure one, but a homeland defense system anyways. They're defending against both illegal fishing trawlers (which are coming in from other countries and destroying the fishing industry in Somalia) and ships sailing down from Europe and dumping toxic waste in the waters. If unable to stop these happenings, many ships simply levy a tax upon the target offenders, using their weapons as a means of coercion. In the eyes of a desperate fisherman (former fishermen make up the majority of Somali pirates) trying to survive in a broken state embroiled in violence... it kind of makes sense, in a twisted way.

However, in the case of pirates attacking and subsequently boarding innocent merchant or cruise ships, I agree completely with you; there is simply no excuse.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I am very sorry, I did not mean to say that I know everything, I did not intend that at all. I stated that in the post. I am really not trying to act like I know everything I am sorry if it came out like that. I just wanted to add that it is very poor there and that these people do no have much and that it was my opinon that there should maybe be more dialogue than anything else. Again I am very sorry if I came out as arrogant, it is hard to have a discussion on the internet since all of the verbal ques such as tone are not available.

Apologising everytime you step out of bounds can no longer be taken as genuine. You've done it too many times and haven't changed a thing.

Start following the instructions you've been getting, by PM, from the Staff.


Milnet.ca Staff

 

[MARS]

In Somalia, anyways, the pirates are the Coast Guard - not an official, or pure one, but a homeland defense system anyways. They're defending against both illegal fishing trawlers (which are coming in from other countries and destroying the fishing industry in Somalia) and ships sailing down from Europe and dumping toxic waste in the waters. If unable to stop these happenings, many ships simply levy a tax upon the target offenders, using their weapons as a means of coercion.

:rofl:

Care to substantiate your information?

Oh, I have read the pirates' press releases too.  Laughable.  Trust me, there is no 'homeland defense' action by the pirates and they are certainly not targeting the ships dumping waste - why would they? Some kind of environmental activism?  Those types of ships don't fit with the pirate TTPs.  These guys are simply criminals out to make money - lots of it.

Edited for spelling

 

[Honey_Coombs]

Sorry, I should have put in some links.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/261147

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/3-toxic-waste-behind-somali-pirates/

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article22428.htm

It's not so much environmental acvtivism as it is the fact that the toxic waste is washing up on shore. It's harming the people. A little while ago there was a tsunami (the third link down) along the coastline of Somalia in which barrels of toxic waste washed up into the middle of a fishing village. They have been suffereng the effects of this waste ever since.

As for the idea that piracy as a means of self-defense (homeland security) - it's an idea that's supported by 70% of the population (the second link down).

I'm not naive enough to suggest that piracy in Somalia is simply a matter of necessity and the perpitrators are sadly doing what they have to do, but I am saying that their are other reasons. As for the money; they need it to live, right? There's a reason that most Somali pirates are former fishermen, I think, and that is because it is very difficult to survive by selling a product that is disappearing. Don't forget the illegal fishing trawlers. No, this isn't a Disney movie, but there are people out there who have turned to piracy as a means of survival.

 

[Old Sweat]

H_C

Check your sources. The first and third stories talk about the same vessel, but are dated several months apart. The second story is rather breathless, and it is difficult to determine its validity. Frankly I would find a report in something like The Economist much more believable than any of these sources.

To take it a bit farther, some of the claims are suspect. I was going to go a bit farther, but suspect will do for now. Specifically the sources try to paint the pirates as environmental Robin Hoods, robbing from the rich to clean up the pollution. Until proven otherwise, I am going to continue to put greed, not green, as the motivator.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

There was a legitimate coast guard being set up by the EU about 9 months ago but I figured the project failed as there has been little news about it since.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Not everyone is simply engaging in piracy to "make a living." In Somalia, anyways, the pirates are the Coast Guard - not an official, or pure one, but a homeland defense system anyways. They're defending against both illegal fishing trawlers (which are coming in from other countries and destroying the fishing industry in Somalia) and ships sailing down from Europe and dumping toxic waste in the waters. If unable to stop these happenings, many ships simply levy a tax upon the target offenders, using their weapons as a means of coercion. In the eyes of a desperate fisherman (former fishermen make up the majority of Somali pirates) trying to survive in a broken state embroiled in violence... it kind of makes sense, in a twisted way.

However, in the case of pirates attacking and subsequently boarding innocent merchant or cruise ships, I agree completely with you; there is simply no excuse.

I paint a big, long log of shit yellow and call it a banana, it is STILL shit. 

 

[Honey_Coombs]

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/ga10940.doc.htm

Unfortunately, without a subscription, I cannot access the Economist's articles, so I couldn't look there for information. I had to resort to  :google:

I'm not saying that the reasons behind piracy in Somalia are necessarily "green" related. I mean, they are, but no one really cares if the environment is being harmed. It's the damage being done to many fishermen's livelihoods. Their way of making money has been taken from them. Is it that hard to believe that there are desperate people resorting to piracy?
I just find it difficult to accept that every pirate in Somalia is doing what they do out of pure greed and ulterior motives. It's quite easy to judge from an armchair, but I believe that there are those engaging in piracy who really believe they have no other choice. It's not like every pirate is reaping in millions of dollars. Yes, the profit from ransoms is enormous, but that money goes to the leaders of the pirate gangs. I've already pointed it out, but I'll ask again; why are the majority of Somali pirates former fishermen? It's not like they're applying former knowledge to a new skill - they're using motor boats, hardly something they would have used for fishing. I can only believe that these actions are driven by some sort of desperation.

Just to clarify, I'm not even attempting to imply that every pirate is doing what they've been forced to do. There are plenty of thugs on the water. I just don't believe it's as black and white an issue as Old Sweat and Mars are suggesting.

 

[Old Sweat]

I am sure you understand that just because something pops up on Google, does not make it authorative. Whenever I see obscure sources, usually without citations or any corresponding stories from major news organizations with a reputation of (sometimes at least) fact checking, I get very suspicious.

Where is the evidence ships are coming down from Europe to dump toxic waste in Somali waters? There are a number of reasons to take the claim with a grain of salt, including cost/distance, the legal definition of Somali waters and the depth of the ocean. Could someone more knowledgeable than I comment on the movement of the water column during a tsunami, specifically the 2004 one, and the depths and shape of the sea bed in the area in question? Also what was the extent of tsunami damage in the region during that event?

I suspect the local fishing community suffered after the collapse of the government. Probably a number of fishermen took up piracy out of necessity, but, just as in the age of piracy, goverments/individuals put up most of the money and took most of the profits. (See Elizabeth I, Drake, Hawkins, et al for an example) Many of the claims seem to be self-serving justification.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I've had it explained to me, face to face, small words, by the senior Canadian in Bahrain; I believe it is black and white and that the "green" and "economic" arguments are self serving excuses from those who apologize for piracy.

 

[Honey_Coombs]

It's difficult to find sources that everyone would consider valid (if such a thing exists) with little more at my disposal then Google.

Your points are valid, and importantly, make sense, but they lack the inclusion of humanity. I don't accept that these press releases are complete fabrications, drawn out of some wacky parallel universe. Toxic waste washing up on the shores of Somalia? Weirder things have happened, I think.

However, I am unlikely to change my mind and I do have a history essay to complete, so I'd like to respectfully withdraw myself. Besides, your positions are rock solid, anyways, and I'm pretty sure I'm losing this, so I think it's my time to go now. ;D
Thank you for the conversation, gentlemen.