FJAG
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The US Presidency 2019
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Brad Sallows
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Democrats will be thankful if the Senate finishes the matter quickly. The senators who are running for president don't want to be stuck there when the primaries start, and the Democrats don't want their tightly scripted show to be unraveled by a wide-ranging inquiry where they don't control the rules.
Brad Sallows
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The essential difference between now and 1974 is the sum of all the unseemly things ignored by both parties in order to gain and retain political advantage. Few believe that the impeachment push that started before the inauguration is a quest to punish wrongdoing, although many try to maintain the fiction. If this saga were about what is right, there would not be so much manoeuvring on the part of the righteous that results in the erosion of customary practices and other norms.
>My argument that a “trial” where the fix is in doesn’t work to clear the defendant or give the defendant bragging rights. Period.
True. And it applies to the impeachment process and the trial process equally, but with the "fixes" (for and against) running strictly along partisan lines.
Democrats fucked themselves into a corner on "obstruction" by tolerating Obama and Holder. Next time they own the administration, they can behave differently, or prove me right.
>My argument that a “trial” where the fix is in doesn’t work to clear the defendant or give the defendant bragging rights. Period.
True. And it applies to the impeachment process and the trial process equally, but with the "fixes" (for and against) running strictly along partisan lines.
Democrats fucked themselves into a corner on "obstruction" by tolerating Obama and Holder. Next time they own the administration, they can behave differently, or prove me right.
FJAG
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Trump. Letter. To Pelosi. No. Words.
Read full text here.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/474937-read-trump-letter-to-pelosi-objecting-to-impeachment-process
:facepalm: or :rofl: :dunno:
Read full text here.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/474937-read-trump-letter-to-pelosi-objecting-to-impeachment-process
:facepalm: or :rofl: :dunno:
FJAG said:
It’s genuinely funny; the parts that were written by Trump himself and the parts that were written by someone else couldn’t be more stark if his portion was literally scribbled in crayon. There are some clean and crisp turns of phrase in there that clash brutally with his disjointed whining. You have to wonder at the cognitive dissonance that much afflict someone intelligent enough to lend efforts to this, yet who has to reconcile themselves with trying to wedge Trump’s words by brute force into some fragments of decent prose.
In any case, while addressed to Pelosi, she isn’t at all the intended audience. While he cries about being denied due process, he has had opportunities to say his bit and to defend himself, and he will have that opportunity again. Past behaviour being a predictor of future, I don’t think we need waste our time hoping he’ll have the integrity and backbone to actually take an oath and testify.
The failure of impeachment in the Senate is a foregone conclusion, but the testimony will be interesting- enough Republicans are willing to buck that it at least won’t get summed up without hearing from witnesses.
FJAG
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tomahawk6 said:
You call that exoneration?
Under the Senate rules for impeachment the following oath must be taken by the senators:
https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/1_1868ImpeachmentRules.pdf
Two Republican senators (Graham and McConnell) have both already stated that they are not impartial.
It's not. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court presides, there is a trial and a judgement. Bet you anything that neither Graham or McConnell will recuse themselves. I guess an oath before God and honor doesn't mean that much to someone who is:
https://newrepublic.com/article/153275/mitch-mcconnell-profile-nihilist-chief
So if McConnell is content to turn this into a "political process" how can anyone rationally call the outcome an "exoneration".
:brickwall:
Brad Sallows
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The trial can't produce exoneration unless new evidence comes forward which ... exonerates. But the Senate apparently will not consider anything not already provided by the House's investigation. "Exoneration" seems to have replaced "not guilty" in the minds of those not found guilty and/or their supporters. (Hillary Clinton was "exonerated", Trump was "exonerated", the FBI was "exonerated".)
Republicans will not be impartial now just as the Democrats were not impartial during Clinton's trial. The saving grace is that few want an extended proceeding - the Democrats want to wrap without any new evidence which weakens their position and to get on with the primaries; the Republicans want to wrap and resume other Senate business (these days, mainly confirming judicial appointments).
This has been a purely "political process" since long before McConnell was about to get involved. That shit isn't going back into the horse.
Republicans will not be impartial now just as the Democrats were not impartial during Clinton's trial. The saving grace is that few want an extended proceeding - the Democrats want to wrap without any new evidence which weakens their position and to get on with the primaries; the Republicans want to wrap and resume other Senate business (these days, mainly confirming judicial appointments).
This has been a purely "political process" since long before McConnell was about to get involved. That shit isn't going back into the horse.
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Trump is being impeached although no impeachable offense. Obstruction of Congress for asserting executive privelage. In our system there are 3 co-equal branches of government, the judiciary,legislative and executive. If the dem's control the house after 2020 election they will try to impeach again. Sadly the next Democrat President may well face impeachment.
Halifax Tar
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tomahawk6 said:
I try not to weigh into American politics but...
1) As I understand it this all an exercise in futility, won't this just die in the Rep contolled senate ?
2) My sentinments exactly, I think pandors box may forver be opened here and it may back fire in the future on the Dems.
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