Thoughts on deployment/rotation length & HLTA

[GAP]

Since this is an HLTA thread, I was wondering if anyone knows the current HLTA for KAF?

(appologies for the interjection)

other than OPSEC, I would assume, as would you if you had read the whole thread, that it varies for each person

 

[catalyst]

I read the thread but I missed that.

Sorry for inturruption....I'll just carry on

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

What do you mean by "current HLTA"?
Some go home, some go to another place.  Its all up to the individual.  Not sure what the location is for repatriation.

 

[catalyst]

The HLTA rate....for a third location.

I forgot the word "rate". Its been a long day. Again, my appologies.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Roger that

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . .  you should round up a group of military wives and say "HLTA should be scrapped" and see what happens to you.

As I suspect that the mutterings of military wives may have had an effect on the evolution of "UN leave" to the current situation with HLTA they are probably a significant force to deal with.

As a clarification - HLTA, though commonly used as the expression for the special leave authorized while operationally deployed, actually refers only to the financial benefit for those who are so authorized leave while operationally deployed. 

It is interesting to note that this is another remnant (perhaps of Frankenstein proportion) of UN peacekeeping operations similar to the six month tour policy.  Back in the old days, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Canadian soldiers' usual deployments had narrowed to Cyprus and the Middle East, one of the UN policies (not specifically Canadian but adhered to by us ) was that soldiers of any nationality deployed with a UN mission would receive leave at the rate of one day per month while deployed (this may have increased to two days along the way).  It of course had to be taken while still deployed in theatre.  However as CF service flights  provided regularly scheduled service between Lahr and Cyprus/Egypt, it was relatively easy for Canadian soldiers to leave the theatre and spend their leave in Europe.  Making this destination more attractive was the availability of service air travel to wives who wanted to join their spouses in Germany; this benefit was formalized when spouses were booked for travel on a duty priority basis ("2G" if I remember correctly).  Any other travel during this "UN leave" period was strictly at the members' cost.  Other than perhaps some incremental cost due to larger loads on service flights and accommodation in the '"Europahof", there was not a great additional cost to the CF in following this "UN" leave policy.  However, things evolved.  There started to be more missions and we lost the benefit (or the closeness) of CFE and scheduled CF airline service.  Then there were complaints (mutterings from the spouses?) that soldiers deployed on operations had received a financial benefit  by their wives joining then in Europe while sailors who were away from home for extended periods did not enjoy the same perk of having their wives join them in foreign lands.  Then there were those whose wives could not join them for leave in Europe and this evolved (mid to late 70s ?) into permitting pers to return home via service air (and using normal LTA) during their 2G leave.  And of course there was now the expectation that what had previously been an accomodation was now an entitlement.

If some bean counter somewhere says "they need it", well, they can take a long walk off a short pier as far as I am concerned.

It may not have been "beancounters" who determined this policy but operational commanders.  Just as there is "mission creep" there is also "benefits creep".  Allowing use of (then) existing (excess capacity) resources for leave purposes has now evolved into a benefits policy that can affect the operational situation.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The biggest nightmare is trying to run a full battalion's worth of tasks with three understrength rifle companies. It's just plain insane, and dangerous too.

Why not deploy battalions with 5 rifle companies? 3 'on operations', one on 'in coutry' training (back at KAF or whatever) and one on home leave. Other combat arms units may be able to operate in a similar fashio e.g., 3 sections of Engrs on ops, 1 on in coutry training and one on home leave.

Trickle post the HQ wallahs and service support troops on leave, much as they do now with the whole unit. Increase tour lengths to match those of the US Forces.

 

[dangerboy]

I just do not see us having the available people and equipment to man 5 rifle coys overseas

 

[Lil_T]

Well, speaking as a wife, and hopefully soon to be member, I count myself lucky that my husband gets to come home mid-tour.  My American counterparts don't get to see their husbands for R&R unless their tour is 12 months or longer.  And even then it's iffy.  Call me crazy, but I miss my husband when he's gone.  He's been gone, training included because he's attached to the Pet group that's gone over, since January '08.  I've seen him on weekends only and during block leave in the summer before he left.  So that's almost a year already and lord knows when he'll be home since we don't even have an end date yet.  Just vague estimations.  If the CF decided tomorrow to scrap all deployment leave I think it's safe to say the s*** would hit the fan.  Yes, it's a privilege, but one that I think everyone's become accustomed to having. 

As for deployed navy pers getting leave, it does happen, but only if they can coordinate it with a port visit, and they have enough staff to cover those pers on leave.

 

[X-mo-1979]

The training can be shortened and better organized.  If you look at the LFCA website for 2010, you'll see that they're assembling in Petawawa in Sept 09 for deployment in early 2010 - with block leave over Xmas.  So bit by bit we're elarning, and tweaking, and shortening the road to deployment.

Glad to hear.For us it was 6 weeks Texas (adv party), 3 weeks germany ,then wainwright (6wks IIRC) plus the multitude of courses,and troop training.Adding in we had to travel to another base to the group we were deploying with adding 2 weeks to the beginning and a week and a bit to the end of it.Then having to come back off leave for a parade,then told our original dates of deploying on the 15 suddenly turned into the 31st....in 2-3 days.Lighter note I accumulated 6 days!

The tour is great!I love my job there,and am amazed with the way time is flying there.However I really hate the thought of deploying again soon with the current training system.Glad someone is listening up there and streamlining things.

 

[annemarielyman]

As the wife of someone who is currently deployed, I do not have an issue with tours being extended or removal of HTLA.

Although it was nice to be able to see my husband, it also created alot of upheaval for him. The time spent preparing to come home, travelling, etc.. was difficult for him. He has commented to me that he had become accustomed to being there and was focusing on the task at hand, when he returned he then had to readjust to what had transpired in his absence and go through the adjustment period again. He would have preferred to not have had the leave and to remain in Afghanistan. I would not have an issue with that.

Regarding tour length, I would not oppose an extension in the length. I feel that 9-12 would be acceptable. It only seems right after all of the time and effort of work up training (his was 1 year) for to get the same amount of time to be spent in the location of the mission.

I know that it is impossible to please everyone and that some wives would definitely be less than thrilled at the prospect. I don't feel that it's too much to ask for though. I just think about what previous generations had to endure..years without their husbands, limited communications, less financial benefits, etc. Compared to them we are truly fortunate...we know when (approx.) our husbands will return, internet and telephones (when available), financial benefits, etc..

Although I miss my husband, I feel that now is not the time to be focusing on me or even him but the greater good that is being accomplished and that the needs of the mission should come first.

 

[PuckChaser]

Wow, I didn't know Pet was being so open-minded about reporting dates for TF1-10. I think the earliest date on the website was 27 July 09, with the next group to hit the ground on 22 Sept 09 when the TF stands up. That's a great schedule. TF3-09 has grouped major exercises together starting training only after the TF stands up: http://www.army.gc.ca/lfwa/tf309/training.asp. Another thing that looks like it might work well, is the Brave Ram exercise after block leave, to bring the BG back to readiness level. After all the work ups, and the high tempo training, you go into a lull on block leave, and its hard to hit the ground running. Time well tell on how this schedule will work, but I believe it looks promising.

 

[X-mo-1979]

And as a soldier home on HLTA I'm quite happy with having my HLTA.I was focused on the mission for 4 months now I get to chill out.12 months inside KAF wouldnt be bad at all,the place is like disneyland.12 months outside would suck.

It was dam nice to come back to KAF get a haircut and have a real coffee after 4 months.And darn nice to come home as well to see my family I havnt seen in forever.

 

[Lil_T]

Yeah, my husband was basically counting down to his HLTA for 3 weeks before he came home (and I am super glad to have him for Christmas).  The kids miss him, I miss him.  Call me selfish, but when it comes to HLTA, the only people I'm thinking about are me and mine. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

I know that it is impossible to please everyone and that some wives would definitely be less than thrilled at the prospect. I don't feel that it's too much to ask for though. I just think about what previous generations had to endure..years without their husbands, limited communications, less financial benefits, etc. Compared to them we are truly fortunate...we know when (approx.) our husbands will return, internet and telephones (when available), financial benefits, etc..

Although I miss my husband, I feel that now is not the time to be focusing on me or even him but the greater good that is being accomplished and that the needs of the mission should come first.

Wow. Commendable. My hat is now off to you... 

Having had to deal with soldiers who were suffering, because their families were suffering, from extended absences on operations - as well as trying to lead units on operations that suffer from a lack of numbers due to leave cycles - I've got to say that I am an advocate of the 'no leave for anyone until everyone gets home' option. It seems easier for everyone to make the physical and psychological break for an extended absence than to send people back in 'dribs and drabs' over the course of a 6 month tour. The field troops and the home front could both then put on their 'war faces' and get on with it.

If this approach was adopted, however, it would be important to make sure that the preparation for ops, as well as the post ops drills, were as effecient and slick as possible with the absolute minimum of time away from home, and time wasted on pointless admin and exercises. As always, the actual tour seems less painful than all the BS that goes on before and after... for months in some cases apparently.

This approach would also collapse the first time a senior officer invokes RHIP and sneaks back for some kind of 'important meeting', but also just manages to attend his or her kid's graduation ceremony - or whatever. Leadership by example would be of critical importance.

 

[NCRCrow]

For the Navy,

You will do tons of pre-deployment training (OTT, WUPS, MRI, trials) then go on your 7 month tour.

The bonus in the Navy is that not all positions are entitled to an HLTA.

Everybody in OP ATHENA Roto 0 (Kabul) went on HLTA regardless of there position.

The way I look at it, look at your tour as a one year go, with home time a bonus.

 

[X-mo-1979]

The bonus in the Navy is that not all positions are entitled to an HLTA.

What positions?

 

[NCRCrow]

All Director (ORO, SWC, ASWC, SAC) positions including EWS.

Plus the specialty Engineering types ( I am not exactly sure of the Cert Level)

 

[1feral1]

I was deployed to Iraq for 3 days shy of 7 months, and all up 12 months of my life was chewed up with all the training/leave etc. We started training on 01 May 06, and I returned to my normal duty on 02 May 07.

On my tour, just under 1/2 way through I took my 'ROCTFA/ROCL', ending up spending 14 days in Greece, with a total of either 18 or 20 days away from Baghdad.

IMHO, I needed this break, as it helped assist me in breaking up the tour, and got myself and my now Ex together mid way.

I benifited from this break, as did we all. To go hell for leather for the entire time would have been exhausting, as we never had any days off.

I view any time away as productive for the majority of the troops.

Just my two cents,

OWDU

 

[NCRCrow]

I agree!

A break is needed and warranted but shouldn't be expected if operational reasons preclude it.

I look at it at a year long deployment and a HLTA or time home is bonus.