TN2IC and Profanity

[orange.paint]

I'll start off by saying I'm not a huge fans of civilians.My son ain't bad,but he's too young to join a military,so I wont hold it against him.

However I now also work in an area with a high amount of civilian employees in our smoking area.Try thinking about the image you represent when their around.Not that they never seen army guys before,or their husband/dad isn't some high ranking member who comes home from a field ex speaking the same way.

I guarantee their ears are not pure.

However I myself tend to swear too much at times of excitement,or when I'm looking for a word to spit out.Not comparable to most people who make themselves sound f*ing stupid with the amount of swearing they work into a sentence.

If I was you in your situation I would have apologised and shut up and ignored her.Being a human she was most likely looking for either

*attention*- be it negative (an insult towards her for her comment)
               -or Postive (apologising) Which would lead to a conversation about why she doesn't like the word.And her wilddays                  with 80's hair in a brothel in Germany.(that song "glory days" comes to mind)

*Something to bitch about*

*Something she can e mail someone about and make herself look important*
This is the new CF hockey replacement.It has become evident a man/woman can make themselves seem very important by forwarding Emails.With a little FYI attached.Heck throw some idea on the top and your promoted!...I'm sure it works for civilians as well.

Believe me I can picture the woman your talking about.About 100 lbs over weight,hair cut short with a little 80'swang bang bright almost neon coloured clothing and the stench of some bottle of perfume that comes in 20L jerrycans for $4.95.

My best advice apologise,and ignore.People absolutely despise being given a cold shoulder."Yes sir/maam" "No maam/sir"

However you were wrong in swearing in a public place when it all boils down and she charges you or harassment.Easier to apologise sometimes and cover your ass.

 

[TN2IC]

Believe me I can picture the woman your talking about.About 100 lbs over weight,hair cut short with a little 80'swang bang bright almost neon coloured clothing and the stench of some bottle of perfume that comes in 20L jerrycans for $4.95.

You scare me. Must be that Dragoon power in you.

 

[TN2IC]

Just a thought, their was a saying in WW2 that if you removed the word F@@@ and frontal from canadian army vocabulary. The army would no longer be able to talk or attack. ;D

You pretty much said it now. Your my new hero for the hour.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Maybe she should quit smoking!  ;D

 

[TN2IC]

Augh yeah...I may be up your way tomorrow... time pending.

 

[George Wallace]

Maybe she should quit smoking!  ;D

Padre

You know, as well as the rest of us, that TN2IC was completely in the WRONG.

TN2IC

You had better get some serious advice at work and brush up on CF, DND and PS policies on Harassment and pay close attention to examples just as yours.  The lady did the correct thing in addressing you and asking you to refrain from swearing.  Your reaction, according to the story you told, puts you totally in the wrong.  You have to correct your ways, not her.  You are setting yourself up for a serious Harassment Charge if you do not.  

This should bring this discussion to an end.

Any questions can be addressed to a Mod or a Harassment Adviser.

Topic Locked.

 

[TN2IC]

Okay thanks George for letting me sum up here.

I am going to let it be a lesson learn type deal. And watch what I say. I admit I am in the wrong. I just wanted other folks view on the deal, and vent a tad.

Thank you for your time and input,
Everyone was helpful,
Regards,
TN2IC

 

[aesop081]

Some might not agree with this but from the way i take it, you were having a conversation with a buddy not slamming anyone or referred to anything sexual or vulgar, you were not running around scream F this or F that....she "overheard", she didn't have to listen she could have walked away . I think of f*** or any other swear for that matter just another word. it can emphasize a point, i think of it as a describing word in certain context. i just took my SHARP class and i don't believe that any swear fell under the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms act nor does it bear any racial meaning. We are all grown ups and i think we can handle a word, that's all it is, A WORD.
i myself am very very very guilty of using swears in everyday conversations but it was how i raised it was no big deal, but saying that i do not use it around young children and when i speak with my elders i just judge on how they speak, if they use it, so do i...if they don't i clean up my mouth.

Well it is a good thing that you are not advising your CoC on Harassement issues.  As an HA/HI myself i can tell you that it doesnt matter if the comments were simply "overheard".  This is not a "charter question" as well, unlike what you seem to alude to. A person not involved in the conversation is well within their right to walk up and ask you to stop, simply by the fact that they heard the coment and took offense.  That is the LAW, deal with it. This was in fact explained to you during SHARP training, you would know that if you had in fact bothered to pay attention.  The fact is that now that you have been trained in what the legislation entails and literaly have no excuse ( beyond the "ignorance not an excuse provisions of the QR&Os), and you are exposing yourself to action every single time you decide to swear in at the workplace ( as defined by the CF).  In my experiences as an HA and as an HI, you would be amazed at the number of complaints that are filed for situations such as the one that started this thread and some that seem even more benign.

 

[George Wallace]

To clarify that even further:

Now that you have been "refreshed" in your SHARP training by CDN Aviator, you should also be informed of the wording that will be applied should you forget in the future.

The wording in these matters is: "knew or ought reasonably to have known".


From the book:

POLICY DIRECTION

Context:

5. The CF and DND affirm that a work environment that fosters teamwork and encourages individuals to contribute their best effort in order to achieve Canada’s defence objectives is essential.  Mutual trust, support and respect for the dignity and rights of every person are essential characteristics of this environment.  Not only is harassment in certain forms against the law, but it erodes mutual confidence and respect for individuals and can lead to a poisoned work environment.  As a result, operational effectiveness, productivity, team cohesion and morale are placed at risk.

6. Detailed information is contained in the Harassment Prevention and Resolution Guidelines.

Policy Statement:

7. The CF and DND are committed to providing a respectful workplace by promoting prevention and prompt resolution of harassment.  All CF members and DND employees have the right to be treated fairly, respectfully and with dignity in a workplace free of harassment, and they have the responsibility to treat others in the same manner.

8. Harassment in any form constitutes unacceptable conduct and will not be tolerated.  No CF member or DND employee shall subject any person in the workplace to harassment.  Any member or employee who subjects another person to harassment is liable to disciplinary and administrative action.

Requirements:

9. The CF and DND shall:

      a. inform all CF members and DND employees about behaviour that constitutes harassment; their rights and responsibilities under this policy, ways of dealing with conflict and harassment; and the resources available to them;
     b. provide supervisors and Responsible Officers with guidance, support and training to carry out their responsibilities to prevent harassment and resolve any conflict and harassment situations that may occur;
     c. establish a resolution process, including:
          i. a complaint procedure;
          ii. methods of resolving complaints; and
          iii. remedial, corrective and restorative measures; and
          iv. monitor the effectiveness of this policy.

10. Leaders and managers at all levels have a duty to take immediate steps to stop any harassment they witness or that is brought to their attention.

11. All persons in the workplace have the responsibility to ensure a harassment-free workplace and to treat everyone in the workplace respectfully.

Definitions

Harassment is any improper conduct by an individual that is directed at and offensive to another person or persons in the workplace and which the individual knew or ought reasonably to have known would cause offence or harm.  It comprises any objectionable act, comment or display that demeans, belittles or causes personal humiliation or embarrassment, or any act of intimidation or threat.  It includes harassment within the meaning of the Canadian Human Rights Act (CHRA).

NOTES

1. Where harassment involves misuse of the power or authority inherent in an individual’s position, it constitutes an abuse of authority.  Conduct involving the proper exercise of responsibilities or authority related to the provision of advice, the assignment of work, counselling, performance evaluation, discipline and other supervisory/leadership functions does not constitute harassment.  Similarly, the proper exercise of responsibilities or authority related to situations where, by virtue of law, military rank, civilian classification, or appointment, an individual has authority or power over another individual, does not constitute harassment.

2. Where harassment involves the coerced participation, expressed or implied, in improper initiation rites, ceremonies or other events, it constitutes hazing.  Workplace includes the physical work location and the greater work environment such as work-related functions and other activities where work relationships exist.  Harassment Complaint is a verbal or written statement submitted to the RO or other person in authority that makes a specific allegation, or allegations, of harassment.

Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) is, for the purpose of the Harassment Prevention and Resolution Policy and Guidelines, the term used to describe dispute resolution mechanisms and techniques that do not involve the traditional investigative approach. It refers to activities such as self-help, supervisor intervention, facilitation, mediation, etc. (for amplification of these terms see Part 5, Complaint Resolution – ADR).

Administrative Investigation is an examination of the circumstances surrounding a situation, event, incident, occurrence, issue, matter, or complaint conducted by an Investigator or a team of Investigators to determine all relevant factors and circumstances that will assist the RO in making a reasonable decision. In the case of military members, it may also be in the form of a Summary Investigation or Board of Inquiry.

Harassment Advisors (HAs) are DND employees and CF members who have been appointed by the RO to provide information and advice to the RO concerning harassment policy and procedures and the role and responsibilities of the RO in preventing harassment and resolving harassment situations.

The Complainant is a DND employee or CF member who submits a harassment complaint.

The Respondent is a DND employee or CF member against whom a harassment complaint has been filed.

A Situational Assessment is a preliminary review of a harassment complaint to determine an appropriate course of action.







To end all this - You now KNOW.