Transition Group (Previously JPSU and DCSM)
- Thread starter old medic
- Start date
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So far,
Personally, I have had mixed results.
Problem - As a PRes, when completing required paperwork to the best of my understanding, four months ago. Attending the meetings, as I understood them, getting signatures as I thought.......notice NO Guidance from my local JPSU, my unit signed off of my paperwork and off it goes to Ottawa for approval, last month.
Solution - After a busy summer, last week I started asking my PRes unit where the approval was and the "deer in the headlights" response was the start of the fight and last minute stress that members should not need to be going through. I spent 7 days scrambling for answers, where if I had of better understood what JPSU does to start with, instead of relying on my Divisional System, I would have reduced panic stations and have better educated my own unit in the long run. I now have approvals, have offended my Div System and JPSU is glowing here for their efforts to meet a member's needs, but the phyric nature required to for JPSU to perform it's job has not built many bridges that were barely existant to start with. I can not stop praising the efforts of my local JPSU worker, he pulled it all together and let me know the few parts I honestly missed. He made it happen, so that Ottawa JPSU could approve my request. Based on my initial request, I would have been denied outright, and my PRes unit would have simply said "so sad".
While the above example admits pros and cons, the message is this is how an "informed PRes" member is challenged to apply and get the appropriate support, as and when needed. How many are lost due to systemic problems that I went through?
Personally, I have had mixed results.
Problem - As a PRes, when completing required paperwork to the best of my understanding, four months ago. Attending the meetings, as I understood them, getting signatures as I thought.......notice NO Guidance from my local JPSU, my unit signed off of my paperwork and off it goes to Ottawa for approval, last month.
Solution - After a busy summer, last week I started asking my PRes unit where the approval was and the "deer in the headlights" response was the start of the fight and last minute stress that members should not need to be going through. I spent 7 days scrambling for answers, where if I had of better understood what JPSU does to start with, instead of relying on my Divisional System, I would have reduced panic stations and have better educated my own unit in the long run. I now have approvals, have offended my Div System and JPSU is glowing here for their efforts to meet a member's needs, but the phyric nature required to for JPSU to perform it's job has not built many bridges that were barely existant to start with. I can not stop praising the efforts of my local JPSU worker, he pulled it all together and let me know the few parts I honestly missed. He made it happen, so that Ottawa JPSU could approve my request. Based on my initial request, I would have been denied outright, and my PRes unit would have simply said "so sad".
While the above example admits pros and cons, the message is this is how an "informed PRes" member is challenged to apply and get the appropriate support, as and when needed. How many are lost due to systemic problems that I went through?
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- Points
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The JPSU staff are just like every other federal employees, overworked and understaffed. My personal experience has always been good when I have dealt with JPSU. Be it for myself or my subordinates.
Just like all organizations there are good and not so good employees.
There does need to be more funding and more employees along with some retooling of the JPSU to improve it. More pers should be made aware of the services they offer.
I had no idea what they offered until I required their services, this was my own fault for not educating myself sooner. But it should be a component of PD days, refresher training, indoctrination lectures etc.. the more people that know about it the better.
Just like all organizations there are good and not so good employees.
There does need to be more funding and more employees along with some retooling of the JPSU to improve it. More pers should be made aware of the services they offer.
I had no idea what they offered until I required their services, this was my own fault for not educating myself sooner. But it should be a component of PD days, refresher training, indoctrination lectures etc.. the more people that know about it the better.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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If I may weigh I here the right people have to staff the JPSU and the IPSCs. Sometimes we don't get it right.
Personnel that work in an IPSC often have to be the "shoulder to cry on"' , the one who has to kick butt, and break down barriers to ensure the soldiers assigned to their care are cared for properly and within regulations.
This is hard enough to do for healthy soldiers. Is exponentially difficult for the ill and injured, as many of our brethren are still woefully uninformed and educated.
Personnel that work in an IPSC often have to be the "shoulder to cry on"' , the one who has to kick butt, and break down barriers to ensure the soldiers assigned to their care are cared for properly and within regulations.
This is hard enough to do for healthy soldiers. Is exponentially difficult for the ill and injured, as many of our brethren are still woefully uninformed and educated.
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milnews.ca said:
And here's the Ombudsman's "Preliminary Assessment" (highlights mine) ....
Media's summary here:
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I read that JPSU is going to be granted a three year extension to continue to employ reservists that are ex RegF, I think it was 47 pers. I hope that is the case and that those that do get extended are acutally working in the the IPSC/JPSU's now to keep the experience where it needs to be. The staff at any IPSC I have dealt with have always been top notch. They can only work with what they have. Hopefully the employee shortage issues will get addressed before the pers that currently work at IPCS do not suffer from burn out. I know a few that put a lot of time in to get the job done.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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stokerwes said:
Well said.
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stokerwes said:
Speaking from experience in dealing with one of the JPSUs (and I hope they are all not like this) - it would be nice if the hired a few Reservists who have only been Reservists, as I had to do a lot of "explaining" and "educating" about Reservists issues/entitlements when I had to deal with them, and it sure would be nice to have someone who understands the issues.
And please, don't anyone turn this into a Reg vs Reserve "bashing" exercise.
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Future Pensioner said:
You do have a point.
From my experience, not with dealing with a JPSU, but with the Training System, there is a big disconnect at times between the two mentalities. My experience was in finding positions on career courses, and even with Reservists (actually recently retired CAF members stepping directly into a Class B position at a School) in positions to Crse load, there is often an opening that comes up last minute and lands up being a NO FILL. Unlike the Reg Force where a member could be told Friday that they are on Crse Monday and off they go, Reservists have full-time professions as civilians and all the administration involved in getting time off from those jobs. Some of these people need a year in advance notice to book leave from work to attend courses. Someone without this 'knowledge/experience' posting crses on short notice, even moving crse dates to the right or left as little as one day, prevents these Reservists from getting career crses.
You can not always deal with Regular Force and Reservists in the same manner which is not always understood by the, for the most part, Regular Force persons in charge.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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I am Reg Force and have been working at a Reserve unit for the last two years and I am still surprised at some of the differences. Especially the way injured personnel are treated.
It took me awhile to wrap my head around the timings for courses etc.. But once educated I got it.
Other than the obvious difference of part time/full time I find little difference between Reg and Res Forces as far as the people are concerned.
It took me awhile to wrap my head around the timings for courses etc.. But once educated I got it.
Other than the obvious difference of part time/full time I find little difference between Reg and Res Forces as far as the people are concerned.
MilEME09
Army.ca Veteran
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As a Reservist going through the process right now after snapping my leg like a twig a few months ago. Both my unit and the local IPSC have looked after things as best they can, that said their frustration seems to be with the system. I was handed over to them in early September and got the ball rolling, and now its November and we are still waiting for Division and Ottawa to sign off on my claim for the Reserve Force compensation that will last until I am cleared to go back to work. If it wasn't for my unit and IPSC working out an intern plan for my pay i'd be two months without pay right now. I have nothing but praise for the ex reg force case manager at IPSC handling my case, though when I did see him last most of his staff were on leave so it was just him and one other person. Maybe a 3rd case manager might help them when one is on leave.
In 2010 I was posted to an IPSC of the JPSU as an ill/injured member. Since that time, as an ill/injured member posted to this unit, I have often been very frustrated with how my particular IPSC treats its members and makes decisions that have often been insensitive or not in support of myself and others I have spoken to. Now as my 28 plus year career in the Regular Force comes to an end, I can't think of any regiment, HQ, school or any other unit that treated me as bad as this unit.
During all my career I have put loyalty first in my chain of command, unit and the Canadian Forces in general. Now as I am about to retire, I find myself at my "wit's end" with my IPSC.
[size=12pt]Is it my perspective or are there other members who are having issue with their JPSU IPSCs?[/size]
Some general examples of my personal situation include:
a. denying almost all requests, but particularly, without research and sometimes within only minutes or hours of receiving these simple and lawful requests that would assist for an easier transition to civilian life, denying them without any adjudication whatsoever;
b. refusing to forward requests to higher levels where there was a clear entitlement but eventually submitting or approving them only on grievance;
c. where there was no breach of service discipline of any type, using threats of disciplinary action as a practice;
d. interpreting and applying career-ending processes that needlessly prejudiced some of the most important processes of my military career; and
e. in general, treatment like I was a private recruit.
I can quote the specifics for me and others, but for this forum, this should suffice.
Previously as a junior leader in the infantry and then later as a senior leader in my current occupation, I have never treated, nor would I let my subordinates be treated, like I am being treated by this organization.
Again, surely I can't be the only one!
During all my career I have put loyalty first in my chain of command, unit and the Canadian Forces in general. Now as I am about to retire, I find myself at my "wit's end" with my IPSC.
[size=12pt]Is it my perspective or are there other members who are having issue with their JPSU IPSCs?[/size]
Some general examples of my personal situation include:
a. denying almost all requests, but particularly, without research and sometimes within only minutes or hours of receiving these simple and lawful requests that would assist for an easier transition to civilian life, denying them without any adjudication whatsoever;
b. refusing to forward requests to higher levels where there was a clear entitlement but eventually submitting or approving them only on grievance;
c. where there was no breach of service discipline of any type, using threats of disciplinary action as a practice;
d. interpreting and applying career-ending processes that needlessly prejudiced some of the most important processes of my military career; and
e. in general, treatment like I was a private recruit.
I can quote the specifics for me and others, but for this forum, this should suffice.
Previously as a junior leader in the infantry and then later as a senior leader in my current occupation, I have never treated, nor would I let my subordinates be treated, like I am being treated by this organization.
Again, surely I can't be the only one!
I really can't comment on what kind of pressures the JPSUs are going through right now. I have colleagues that work there on a class B basis. That may be part of the issue. Understaffed.
This is far from an excuse but...
Having worked in a client/service office, it really does not take very long for some people to get dejected. You deal with a lot of crap. A lot of undeserved crap as well. In fact you likely deal with more BS than legitimate gripes.
What happens is that people who have legitimate gripes and concerns just get lumped in with the rest.
I'm not saying you don't have legimate complaints. But for every legimate complaints there are likely ten times more that aren't.
It took me a long time for me to get dejected in that job because I had the right attitude for the work but eventually it took its toll and when it did it was time for me to move on because I wasn't helping myself or the organisation. I just didn't care anymore.
The problem is when people who work in these jobs don't realise that they are probably past their past due date but stay for whatever reason. But a lot of it also has to do with people not listening, hearing what they want to hear and not liking the answers they get. You can blame them as much as you can blame the ones at JPSU.
Anyway, sorry to highjack and good luck with everything.
This is far from an excuse but...
Having worked in a client/service office, it really does not take very long for some people to get dejected. You deal with a lot of crap. A lot of undeserved crap as well. In fact you likely deal with more BS than legitimate gripes.
What happens is that people who have legitimate gripes and concerns just get lumped in with the rest.
I'm not saying you don't have legimate complaints. But for every legimate complaints there are likely ten times more that aren't.
It took me a long time for me to get dejected in that job because I had the right attitude for the work but eventually it took its toll and when it did it was time for me to move on because I wasn't helping myself or the organisation. I just didn't care anymore.
The problem is when people who work in these jobs don't realise that they are probably past their past due date but stay for whatever reason. But a lot of it also has to do with people not listening, hearing what they want to hear and not liking the answers they get. You can blame them as much as you can blame the ones at JPSU.
Anyway, sorry to highjack and good luck with everything.
I appreciate your perspective and agree with you to some extent. Definitely under-staffing is a huge issue with IPSCs - no question there. And training and experience adds to an already overworked and understaffed system. That, and the fact that it is still not an excuse being said, the issues I have are with those in decision-making positions. Most of these people have good experience.
It is not just that I don't like the decisions, not only were some of them wrong by regulation, they could have been harmful had I not challenged them! As for decisions that I didn't like that were not against CF rules, order or directives, my grip is that a "NO" was easier to say than a "We will look into it and get back to you." In three cases, what should have been an issue and that should have gone up the chain of command and taken perhaps days either approve or deny, was denied "on the spot!"
For the last few years in the CF, I was THAT person making those decisions (although not part of a JPSU). When presented with a request that I had to deny, at least I returned the denied request with a reason other than, and I quote the notations, "Not approved" or "Denied." This is even most important when dealing with career altering or benefit altering decisions.
One last point, when a member makes a well presented request, whether is it reasonable or not, the fact that it was well presented, well represented and at least approvable within the framework of current CF policy, the least an OPI can do is deny it with a reason; any reason; good or bad!
Thanks for the perspective and input.
It is not just that I don't like the decisions, not only were some of them wrong by regulation, they could have been harmful had I not challenged them! As for decisions that I didn't like that were not against CF rules, order or directives, my grip is that a "NO" was easier to say than a "We will look into it and get back to you." In three cases, what should have been an issue and that should have gone up the chain of command and taken perhaps days either approve or deny, was denied "on the spot!"
For the last few years in the CF, I was THAT person making those decisions (although not part of a JPSU). When presented with a request that I had to deny, at least I returned the denied request with a reason other than, and I quote the notations, "Not approved" or "Denied." This is even most important when dealing with career altering or benefit altering decisions.
One last point, when a member makes a well presented request, whether is it reasonable or not, the fact that it was well presented, well represented and at least approvable within the framework of current CF policy, the least an OPI can do is deny it with a reason; any reason; good or bad!
Thanks for the perspective and input.
- Reaction score
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Time has passed and I'm not quite as bitter but wouldn't change my words one bit.
Edit to add : that training should be standard used allowing staff to be more knowledgeable. In my case my platoon Sgt had no idea there were different couloir CF Service Pins and when I was given the wrong pin, I was told " I never knew there were different pins, I must have taken a different SCAN Seminar than you did". My reply was that the SCAN briefings were done by the same people as a traveling roadshow twice a year.
Just woke up my frustration levels now and I've been doing so well. Grrr. :facepalm:
Edit to add : that training should be standard used allowing staff to be more knowledgeable. In my case my platoon Sgt had no idea there were different couloir CF Service Pins and when I was given the wrong pin, I was told " I never knew there were different pins, I must have taken a different SCAN Seminar than you did". My reply was that the SCAN briefings were done by the same people as a traveling roadshow twice a year.
Just woke up my frustration levels now and I've been doing so well. Grrr. :facepalm:
S
stellarpanther
Guest
Hopefully this is the correct spot for this post.
I was advised my unit today that they wanted to try to get me put into JPSU because of an injury I sustained that will require surgery. I know a few people that have this type of surgery and other than a 6-8 month recovery time which I'll be off for about 6-8 weeks I should be fine. Other than that it's modified duties. If I was in any other unit I would probably be accommodated during this recovery but this pace doesn't want to and the Career Manager won't someone else in there while. While they acknowledged they don't even know if the file will be accepted, my question is whether I should try to have it denied.
I was advised my unit today that they wanted to try to get me put into JPSU because of an injury I sustained that will require surgery. I know a few people that have this type of surgery and other than a 6-8 month recovery time which I'll be off for about 6-8 weeks I should be fine. Other than that it's modified duties. If I was in any other unit I would probably be accommodated during this recovery but this pace doesn't want to and the Career Manager won't someone else in there while. While they acknowledged they don't even know if the file will be accepted, my question is whether I should try to have it denied.
McG
Army.ca Legend
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There is nothing wrong with going to JPSU to get better. That is what the unit exists to do. You can ask for a return to work placement back to your current unit. That would see you continue to work in your current unit while not filling a spot on the establishment.
Are you in a deployable unit?
Are you in a deployable unit?
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