Turmoil in Libya (2011) and post-Gaddafi blowback

[old medic]

NATO bombs Gaddafi forces attacking key rebel town
Michael Georgy, Reuters
10 April 2011
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/NATO+bombs+Gaddafi+forces+attacking+rebel+town/4591195/story.html

AJDABIYAH, Libya - NATO aircraft hit six vehicles carrying Libyan government soldiers during an assault on the eastern town of Ajdabiyah on Sunday, killing at least 15.

The strikes appeared to have helped break an assault by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi on Ajdabiyah, a strategic town 150 km (90 miles) km south of the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

In Brussels, NATO said it had destroyed 25 government tanks in air strikes during the day — 11 near Ajdabiyah and 14 on the outskirts of Misrata, the only rebel bastion in western Libya that has been under siege for six weeks.

“The situation in Ajdabiyah, and Misrata in particular, is desperate for those Libyans who are being brutally shelled by the (Gaddafi) regime,” said Canadian Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard, who commands NATO’s Libya operations.

A Reuters reporter saw 15 charred bodies scattered around burned and overturned vehicles in two separate sites about 300 metres apart on the western outskirts of Ajdabiyah, which Gaddafi’s forces had been attacking all day.

Rebels said there had been two NATO air strikes.

The rebel-held town had come under sustained artillery and rocket attack since morning and there were clashes between rebels and Gaddafi loyalists who penetrated the town centre.

But by early afternoon the rebels looked back in control and seemed to have cleared the town. They commanded key intersections and fired six rockets towards the west...........

 

[FoverF]

Later today one more F-18 will arrive, along with a P-3 aircraft used for aerial re-fuelling.

Unlikely.

 

[WingsofFury]

as of 2359 hr UTC, 7 April 2011 

CF Sorties to date :

CF-188 Hornet 76
CC-150 Polaris 33
CP-140 Aurora 11

 

[57Chevy]

Gadhafi 'accepts peace roadmap': Zuma
Reuters April 10, 2011

TRIPOLI - Muammar Gadhafi has accepted a roadmap for ending the conflict in Libya, South African President Jacob Zuma said on Sunday after leading a delegation of African leaders at talks in Tripoli.

“I have some commitment which is compelling me to leave now but we have completed our mission with the brother leader (Gadhafi),” Mr. Zuma said after several hours of talks with the Libyan leader at his Bab al-Aziziyah compound.

“The brother leader delegation has accepted the roadmap as presented by us. We have to give ceasefire a chance,” he said, adding that the African delegation would now travel to the eastern city of Benghazi for talks with anti-Gadhafi rebels.

article link:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Gadhafi+accepts+peace+roadmap+Zuma/4591717/story.html#ixzz1JABVUyTf

reproduced in accordance with the provisions of The Copyright Act

 

[aesop081]

Unlikely.

The CP-140 Aurora that accompanied the jets was there to provide SAR support to the flight over. this is done for most long transits by our fighters over the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

 

[Zoomie]

The CP-140 Aurora that accompanied the jets was there to provide SAR support to the flight over.

The SGOD does Duckbutt?  That would suck to be the downed aviator.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Why?  The carry a SCAD kit.  You would be a lot more comfortable in a 10 man raft, than you would a seat kit raft.

Think of all the jelly candies you could eat while you waited for the nearest merchant ship to get to you.

 

[Zoomie]

Why?  The carry a SCAD kit.

In all fairness, they might even carry two SKADs - it's just that dropping one of those to a person in any sort of sea state might be viewed as futile.  I watched them drop one at 19 Wing once - they shut down the entire hot ramp for the drop.

 

[aesop081]

The SGOD does Duckbutt?

We've even done it more than once.........

In all fairness, they might even carry two SKADs -

yes, we can carry two, for a total of 4 10-man life rafts.

it's just that dropping one of those to a person in any sort of sea state might be viewed as futile.

Why is that ?

I watched them drop one at 19 Wing once - they shut down the entire hot ramp for the drop.

A few years ago, they dropped the arctic version of SKAD in Comox during SAREX. Seemed to work pretty well from the video i saw. I dont know about the sea SKAD.

 

[Zoomie]

A few years ago, they dropped the arctic version of SKAD in Comox during SAREX.

I saw the Arctic SKAD at SAREX - it was an impressive drop.  Can you drop those things IMC on RADAR only?  That is an ability that a future FWSAR should have.  We have dropped pumps out at sea IMC in the Buff via a weak RADAR picture - luckily the 500' of rope helped with netting the sinking vessel.

 

[aesop081]

Can you drop those things IMC on RADAR only? 

I have never tried and we dont have a procedure for that. I dont think it would be possible with the current radar but the new one in block 3 might open the doors to new procedures to deal with IMC situations.

 

[PanaEng]

Is it more timidity on part of NATO fliers or just lack of aircraft to cover all the missions (now that the US is just on a supporting role)?
From the CBC:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/04/12/libya-nato-gadhafi-france-rebels.html

 

[a_majoor]

What exactly are we supposed to accomplish tere again?

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2011/04/as-the-libyan-stalemate-gets-stale.html

As The Libyan Stalemate Gets Stale

The NY Times reports that France and Britain want NATO to bomb more and faster in Libya.  They also shock us with the news that Obama's lack of a plan has caused strains in Washington:

Possible Libya Stalemate Puts Stress on U.S. Policy

By DAVID E. SANGER

WASHINGTON — Three weeks ago, President Obama  ordered American troops into the first “humanitarian war” on his watch, vowing to stop the forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi from massacring their own people. Mr. Obama’s hope was that a quick application of power from the air would tip the balance, and the Libyan rebels would do the rest.

Now with the Qaddafi forces weathering episodic attacks, and sometimes even gaining, the question in Washington has boiled down to this: Can Mr. Obama live with a stalemate?

Asked on Monday whether the United States could accept a cease-fire proposed by the African Union that would effectively leave Colonel Qaddafi in control of part of the country, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton hedged. First, she said, the Libyan government would have to allow food, water and electricity into cities it has cut off and allow in humanitarian assistance. Then, she added, “These terms are nonnegotiable.”

But she immediately reiterated that ultimately nothing could be resolved without “the departure of Qaddafi from power, and from Libya.” The statement seemed to underscore the limbo the administration finds itself in, with the rebels unable to achieve regime change on their own, and Washington and its NATO allies hesitant to leap deeper into a civil war.

Mr. Obama’s decision to join the military intervention in Libya may well be judged a failure if the initial result is a muddle or a partition of the country, an outcome that his own secretary of defense, Robert M. Gates,  declared less than a month ago would be a “a real formula for insecurity.”  If the country’s civil war drags on, Mr. Obama will almost certainly have to answer a rising chorus of critics that he entered the battle too late, began to exit too early, and overestimated a very inexperienced, disorganized rebel movement.

The Times joins in the cheap-shotting:

In interviews, senior administration officials urge patience. The first NATO strikes, they note, were only 23 days ago. Colonel Qaddafi, they say, has been badly wounded by the rebellion and is still reeling from the defection of a few key allies and the loss of billions in revenue that he used buy loyalty. Tommy Vietor, the spokesman for the National Security Council, argues that the key to ultimate success is “continued messaging to Qaddafi’s inner circle that the writing is on the wall.”

But, Mr. Vietor added: “Unilateral, open-ended military action to pursue regime change isn’t good strategy, and wouldn’t advance American credibility anywhere. Stopping a massacre, building an international coalition, and tightening the squeeze on Qaddafi as a part of an international coalition is in our interest, and that’s what we’re going to do.”

Over time, that strategy might yet work. But clearly the administration is gambling on catching a break — perhaps  an army uprising, the gradual starvation of a regime addicted to cash, maybe a stray bullet or lucky missile strike that ends a dictator’s 40-year rule.

But as Mr. Obama frequently noted when he was in the Senate criticizing the American approach to Iraq and Afghanistan, hope is not a strategy.

Hope is not a strategy?  Now they tell us.

 

[Kalatzi]

In't this just Dandy???
The African union wants a ceasefire so that the settlment they claim to have brokered has a chance to go into effect.  Presumably they couldn't have done that without the acceptance of at some of the rebel leaders. The rumor that I heard hwas the Col spell-check would stay on until elections later this year.

Another group of rebels wants MORE air-strikes to come up with their own soltion. I think the spokesmans first name is Al.

Interesting to see how this plays out

 

[Fishbone Jones]

In't this just Dandy???
The African union wants a ceasefire so that the settlment they claim to have brokered has a chance to go into effect.  Presumably they couldn't have done that without the acceptance of at some of the rebel leaders. The rumor that I heard hwas the Col spell-check would stay on until elections later this year.

Another group of rebels wants MORE air-strikes to come up with their own soltion. I think the spokesmans first name is Al.

Interesting to see how this plays out

I'm sure there's a valid point somewhere in your post, but I'm missing it. Do you think you could proof read and spellcheck your posts before hitting send. It'll make it much easier to decipher what you're saying.

Thx

 

[Journeyman]

Tommy Vietor, the spokesman for the National Security Council, argues that the key to ultimate success is “continued messaging to Qaddafi’s inner circle that the writing is on the wall.”

I'd love to be at the back of the room when the staff college student proposed that one.
      op:

 

[PanaEng]

I'd love to be at the back of the room when the staff college student proposed that one.
      op:

:rofl:

 

[OldSolduer]

I'd love to be at the back of the room when the staff college student proposed that one.
      op:

What this means to me:

Continued messaging = lots of bombs and rockets  til you run away

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Quote from: Thucydides on Yesterday at 22:58:00

Tommy Vietor, the spokesman for the National Security Council, argues that the key to ultimate success is “continued messaging to Qaddafi’s inner circle that the writing is on the wall.”

You have to stay inside their OODA loop. ;D

O - Observe
O - Overreact
D - Destroy
A - Apologise

 

[WingsofFury]

How the results of the Incremental Modernization Project (IMP) are helping CF-18 Hornet pilots get the job done over in Libya.

New Technologies Key to CF-18 Combat Operability