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U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

Don't let the door hit your @$$ on the way out!  ;D

Traveller said:
Impressed that they had the stones to take a stand on the matter though. But dont mistake that for admiration. I was brought up that a man follows through on what he says, and is judged by his actions. These guys pulled out. Would have been easier to let their contract run out and leave than face X years in prison.

I would disagree.  Were they to man up to their convictions and serve their time in Leavensworth (like Casius Clay, aka Mohammed Ali), then I would be impressed with their "stones".  Instead, they put their tails between their legs and ran away.
 
RangerRay said:
Don't let the door hit your @$$ on the way out!  ;D

I would disagree.  Were they to man up to their convictions and serve their time in Leavensworth (like Casius Clay, aka Mohammed Ali), then I would be impressed with their "stones".  Instead, they put their tails between their legs and ran away.
Having read the life story of one of them, it appears to be his standard approach to life. I am the same, those that choose not to go and stay to face the consequences I have some respect for, these guys I have none.
 
What disturbed me the most, in this story,  was that there are about 330 more of these people hiding out in Canada. WTF?

Jim B. Toronto.
 
Canada Court: AWOL U.S. Soldiers Not Refugees
Kari Huus MSNBC  POSTED: 5:21 pm EST November 15, 2007 UPDATED: 9:43 am EST November 16, 2007
Article Link

The Supreme Court of Canada on Thursday refused to hear an appeal by two U.S. military deserters who sought refuge in the country to avoid deployment to Iraq, a conflict they argued is "immoral and illegal."

The announcement ends a bid by American soldiers Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey, the plaintiffs in the case, to win refugee status and opens the way for them to be deported to the United States, where they could face court martial for going AWOL and missing troop movements. It also could lead to deportation of dozens of other American soldiers who have filed formal applications for refugee status.

"Theoretically they (are) facing immediate removal," said Jeffry House, a Toronto lawyer who represents most of the U.S. refugee applicants, including Hinzman and Hughey. The Supreme Court's refusal to hear the case, "vastly advances the government's agenda to remove them," he said.

The rejection also closes off that legal avenue for other U.S. military personnel who have gone to Canada and remained illegally. House estimates there are at least 300 AWOL U.S. soldiers living in Canada.

Board deems legality of conflict irrelevant
Hinzman and Hughey both deserted from the U.S. Army and came to Canada to avoid imminent deployments to Iraq. Their case for refugee status rested on the argument that the military action in Iraq is illegal and, based on the United Nations convention on refugees, they cannot be prosecuted for failure to serve in an illegal conflict.

The men's argument failed to sway Canada's Immigration Review Board and two Canadian courts before their appeal was rejected by the Supreme Court.

"The immigration board said, with input from the government, that the illegality of the war is irrelevant to these immigration claims, " said Michelle Robidoux, a Toronto-based activist with the War Resisters Support Campaign. "We believe it is very much connected."

Canada, under then-Prime Minister Jean Chretién did not commit troops to the 2003 invasion of Iraq and most Canadians do not support the war, polls show. The country does have troops serving in Afghanistan.

Canadian immigration officials said that no more than 40 refugee claims have been filed by American soldiers. House, however, said the number is significantly higher, noting that he has handled 45 to 50 claims himself. Based on the number of inquiries he has received from AWOL U.S. soldiers, he estimates there are about 300 American military deserters living in Canada, adding that many of them entered the country after serving combat tours in Iraq.

Support from Vietnam era runaways
The new arrivals have been coached, housed and supported by some of the Vietnam era anti-war activists and draft dodgers who took advantage of Liberal Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau's famous declaration of his country as a "refuge from militarism."

House himself left the United States and came to Canada in 1970 after he was drafted.

There are significant differences between Canada's position on the Vietnam War and the war in Iraq, however. The most obvious is that the current deserters were not conscripted, but signed up to serve in a volunteer military.
More on link
 
I don't think we should be kind to those who desert when they voluntarily chose to serve during a time of crisis. What, you want to take all of the benefits and do none of the work? No, not gonna work like that. The SCC have spoken, that they do not believe that their case is worth hearing, so no more appeals, nothing. Deport them now. Drive them to the boarder, contact the nearest MPs and have them arrested by  US Border Service and then escorted to the MPs for Pre-Trial Confinement. We should not harbor those who cannot live up to their end of the bargain. They knew the deal when they signed on the dotted line and they did it anyways. Serve out your time gentlemen, and those other deserters should be located and deported as well. Based on immigration law alone, they are here illegally and hence should be deported. Now they don't even have the refugee card any longer. Not that they ever were.
 
The best part of this is the refusal to hear the appeal.  Nothing says your case has absolutely no merit than the SCC not even letting you in the front door.
 
And for a nice parting gift it appears it was dismissed with costs.

Thank you for visiting Canada and milking our welfare trough, here's a bill for tying up our legal system now get out  8)

The reaction of the progressive moonbat brigade is as expected ::)

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=009608
 
Good on the SCC, I am happy to see this. I agree with MedTech, they were not drafted they volunteered, they should have VR'ed if they didnt want to go to war, they knew the rules when they signed up. I hope that canada deport all american military deserters so they can face the consequences. We may be a melting pot, but we dont harbor or support useless twits :)
 
Danjanou said:
And for a nice parting gift it appears it was dismissed with costs.

Thank you for visiting Canada and milking our welfare trough, here's a bill for tying up our legal system now get out  8)

The reaction of the progressive moonbat brigade is as expected ::)

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=009608

And how many did turn out for their rally.........Love to see what a "good turnout" is.
 
Colin P said:
And how many did turn out for their rally.........Love to see what a "good turnout" is.

A "good turnout" Colin, is when the other "300" deserters also participate in this. Get nabbed and have their deserting a$$es shipped home with these two clowns.
 
MedTech said:
A "good turnout" Colin, is when the other "300" deserters also participate in this. Get nabbed and have their deserting a$$es shipped home with these two clowns.

I don't have that much room in my car trunk for the drive to Fort Erie  >:D
 
All's well that ends well...

I have to agree with an observation that Danjanou made way back near the start of this thread: if you want to defy orders-fine: defy orders but be prepared to face the consequences, just like any other decision you make in life. In the case of these guys those consequences would probably have been a court martial with all the usual legal protections, then imprisonment in a service prison. I highly doubt that they would have been executed.  But, instead of taking a stand and facing the consequences, they scampered.So, I have to wonder on what grounds they even mounted their cases? In the end they were treated as common lawbreakers from a friendly democratic country with a fully developed legal system, not heroic political refugees.

Cheers
 
pbi said:
...In the end they were treated as common lawbreakers from a friendly democratic country with a fully developed legal system, not heroic political refugees.

Cheers
+ 10 million, pbi. 

I have always admired Cassius Clay (as someone else mentioned in this thread) - he was DRAFTED, objected, and did his time as a consequence.  These modern punks VOLUNTEERED - and then got cold feet.  They get no sympathy from me, and my faith in Canada's immigration and justice policies has begun to recover, barely.
 
pbi said:
So, I have to wonder on what grounds they even mounted their cases? In the end they were treated as common lawbreakers from a friendly democratic country with a fully developed legal system, not heroic political refugees.

It appears to me that the whole effort was designed to have a Canadian court agree
that the Iraq war is illegal.  Every time CBC runs this story this is their stated defence.
( my observation )  Local war protesters ( in BC ) hailed them like rock stars.
No, this noise is right out of the '75 copy of War Resisters Handbook.(not a real title)

As it's been pointed out, these guys had other options.  They chose to go political.






 
Posted with all the usual caveats.

PUBLICATION:  Kingston Whig-Standard (ON)
DATE:  2008.02.06
SECTION:  Front
PAGE:  1
BYLINE:  Jennifer Pritchett Whig-Standard Staff Writer
PHOTO:  Michael Lea/The Whig-Standard
ILLUSTRATION: Iraq war resister Chuck Wiley pauses to collect his thoughtsbefore speaking at Queen's University yesterday afternoon. 
WORD COUNT:  702

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soldier seeks refuge from war; Former U.S. navy officer fled country to avoid serving in Iraq

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chuck Wiley crossed the border into Canada during a snowstorm last winter with little more than a car chock full of belongings and a hope he would one day become a Canuck.

The former U.S. navy chief petty officer and his wife now live in Canada with an uncertain future.

Wiley, 35, is one of an estimated 200 American soldiers who have moved to Canada after deserting their homeland to avoid serving in Iraq. Many have found refuge in Toronto, where they are members of an organization called the War Resisters Support Campaign, which is working to find a way to allow them to legally stay in Canada.

Yesterday, he spoke to students and faculty at Queen's University to drum up public support for a motion expected to go before the House of Commons that would allow war resisters and their families to seek asylum in Canada. The motion, from the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, also calls for an immediate halt to deportation proceedings in these cases.

Wearing jeans and a black T-shirt emblazoned with "Say Yes to Soldiers Who Say No," Wiley told the crowd that he would like to see Canada become "a refuge for those who don't want to participate in an unjust war."

Currently, there are no known resisters living in Kingston. But that may soon change if federal politicians pass new legislation to permit war resisters to stay in Canada.

As a border city, Kingston could become a popular new home for American war resisters as it did during the Vietnam War. During the 1960s and 1970s, many of the 65,000 draft dodgers who came to Canada ended up in the Limestone City.

Wiley estimates that passing such a law could send roughly 5,000 former U.S. soldiers into Canada as a way of avoiding deployment to Iraq.

If the proposed law isn't passed and Wiley is deported, he could face jail time and other serious consequences in the U.S., including receiving a dishonourable discharge or a bad conduct discharge from the military that will impact his employment opportunities.

Wiley was aware the stakes were high when he decided to give up his life in the U.S. as a way of avoiding a deployment to Iraq.

Wiley sold off most of his belongings and his home in Norfolk, Va. He and his wife, who was also a member of the U.S. military, stuffed their clothes, computers and whatever else they could fit into their car before they drove across the border into Canada on Feb. 11, 2007.

They told the border guards they were going on a three-day camping trip in Canada. The guards never questioned their reasons for entering the country.

The Wileys have been trying to make a life for themselves in Canada ever since, but it has been a difficult transition.

Wiley also hasn't spoken to his family since he came to Canada and doesn't know when he'll be in touch with them.

"The last time I talked to my parents was the second week of February last year," he said. "They told me how wrong [deserting] was."

Wiley was born in Kentucky and comes from a family with a long line of military personnel. His family boasts it has had a relative in every war. He said it was a "foregone conclusion" that he would choose the military as a career as well.

"I wasn't an economic poverty draft," he said.

Until 2005, he said, he believed in the U.S. military and its mission in the Middle East.

"I believed in the mission ... I believed we were there to help the world," he said.

But it was during his deployment on an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf that Wiley started to change his opinion about the war. He came home from the Middle East knowing he didn't want to go back. Eventually, he decided he had to leave the military before he was sent back to Iraq.

Wiley started to look for ways to get out. He was still too far away from retirement and saw no other option but to leave the U.S.

He researched English-speaking countries where he could seek refugee status without the risk of extradition.

He learned about the War Resisters Support Campaign and has never looked back.

Wiley, who has a job as a maintenance worker at a school, lives in Toronto with his wife, who works at a pet store. They live in a basement apartment.

They desperately hope they can stay in Canada.

To help the Wileys and others like them, the War Resisters Support Campaign is organizing a day of national action on Tuesday, when its members are encouraging Canadians to contact their local MP to express support for a program to allow war resisters to stay in Canada. The organization is also urging the Canadian public to sign petitions and to write letters to federal politicians to encourage them to support the motion when it comes before Parliament.

For more information on the War Resisters Support Campaign, go to www.resisters.ca

jpritchett@thewhig.com

 
Ya volunteer, ya do the job, and if ya don't wanna do the job, ya have to face the music BECAUSE ya volunteered.
 
One acronym that comes to mind is:

Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself
 
He's a coward, plain and simple. People are trying to compare them to the Vietnam era ones, but last time I checked, the US had an all volunteer army this time around.. Hell, he's not even army, he's navy.. I wonder how much schooling the US Navy paid for for this guy?

//Wearing jeans and a black T-shirt emblazoned with "Say Yes to Soldiers Who Say No,"//

Sorry, but real soldiers don't abandon their country and brothers.
 
When my wife and I were considering where we wanted to move to after we retired from the CF, we came REAL close to settling in Creston, BC (about a half hour drive from Nelson, BC).

At the last minute - AFTER we had made an offer on a property, my wife told me she couldn't see me being happy there - Nelson is a hotbed of US Vietnam draft dodgers, and more recently, US Iraq service deserters.  (Plug the words "nelson deserter" into Google and start reading.)  She was right - I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut and stay out of difficulties with such folks.

I have SOME sympathy for the Vietnam draft dodgers - they were, after all, being conscripted.  I have NO time for a deserter, and the next time I hear one claiming to be a "refugee" I'll lose my lunch.

 
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