U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[Jarnhamar]

Left wing radicalism? The same one that's been shown to be responsible for less dea the than right wing extremism?

Yup! that's them     They're still giving it the college try.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/steve-scalise-congress-shot-alexandria-virginia.html
http://beta.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-terror-attack-plot-san-francisco-20171222-story.html 

The problem is really thus- people are a pack animal and like being on teams. People pick "left wing" and "right wing" teams and seem to really get set into a "us vs them" mindset. However, neither side is perfect nor should be seen to be. Left blaming right or vice versa is counter productive and rarely rooted in intellectual sincerity.

Very true, good points.

I can't remember if it was before he was elected or right after but Trump said something that I thought was extremely introspective. It was something to the effect of "We're not always the good guys" meaning the US. I don't think he was wrong.

 

[mariomike]

Trump isn't the President that the US needs; he's the President that the US deserves.

"One of these days the people are going to get good government - and they aren't going to like it." 

 

[FJAG]

An interesting post and study that explains a lot.

Political Twitter Is No Place For Moderates

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/political-twitter-is-no-place-for-moderates/

The full study is right here:

http://aclweb.org/anthology/P/P17/P17-1068.pdf

:cheers:

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

As we end 2017, here's a list of things Trump has lied about so far. Only 8 pages, less than I would have thought (though it doesn't include things he is just wrong about).

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

 

[Rifleman62]

To bad there is not a site like this for Canada for you know who. ;D

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

To bad there is not a site like this for Canada for you know who. ;D

Well, there's the trudeau Metre,  but as this is a US politics thread it didn't seem appropriate.

https://trudeaumetre.polimeter.org

 

[FJAG]

As we end 2017, here's a list of things Trump has lied about so far. Only 8 pages, less than I would have thought (though it doesn't include things he is just wrong about).

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

Couldn't get past page 2. My blood pressure started to get too high. It continues to boggle my mind that anyone can believe anything coming out of this man's mouth.

:cheers:

 

[Altair]

Couldn't get past page 2. My blood pressure started to get too high. It continues to boggle my mind that anyone can believe anything coming out of this man's mouth.

:cheers:

When someone lies so much about everything it really makes one numb about every new lie.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Couldn't get past page 2. My blood pressure started to get too high. It continues to boggle my mind that anyone can believe anything coming out of this man's mouth.

:cheers:

All politicians lie, though he is especially "good" at it. What gets me about Trump is he makes reflxive, unthought out decisions (embassy to Jerusalem) along with the lying and yet the sheeple continue to support him. We'll,  35% of them based on his most recent support numbers.

If the US can get through him without losing all world leader credibility and without a major war it should be considered a success at this point.

 

[Jed]

All politicians lie, though he is especially "good" at it. What gets me about Trump is he makes reflxive, unthought out decisions (embassy to Jerusalem) along with the lying and yet the sheeple continue to support him. We'll,  35% of them based on his most recent support numbers.

If the US can get through him without losing all world leader credibility and without a major war it should be considered a success at this point.

Ok I am not really a Trump fan but I see too many people being Negative Trump all the time.  IN YOUR OPINION, the embassy move to Jerusalem was not thought out.

In my opinion you are incorrect.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Ok I am not really a Trump fan but I see too many people being Negative Trump all the time.  IN YOUR OPINION, the embassy move to Jerusalem was not thought out.

In my opinion you are incorrect.

What facts do you have to back this up? The only thing I hear is the "Trump wanted to show the arabs who's boss" jargon. But I've yet to be convinced how this will change anything aside from push them into the Chinese or Russian Sphere's of influence. My initial question in the whole thing was what was the actual strategic intent in the move. If there wasn't one, in an issue this large, than I would say it wasn't thought out. The Jews and Palestinians aren't just going to drop hundreds of years of strife because the US moved a building. The issue is more complex than that. If he could articulate a rationale backed by a foreign policy than I'd buy it. Aside from that it's just a YOLO.

 

[Jed]

What facts do you have to back this up? The only thing I hear is the "Trump wanted to show the arabs who's boss" jargon. But I've yet to be convinced how this will change anything aside from push them into the Chinese or Russian Sphere's of influence. My initial question in the whole thing was what was the actual strategic intent in the move. If there wasn't one, in an issue this large, than I would say it wasn't thought out. The Jews and Palestinians aren't just going to drop hundreds of years of strife because the US moved a building. The issue is more complex than that. If he could articulate a rationale backed by a foreign policy than I'd buy it. Aside from that it's just a YOLO.

So you know that it is a fact that Trump did not take any advice from his many experienced and informed advisors? I call BS.  Of course, one option would be to keep doing the same thing that has been done for decades with no effect.

 

[mariomike]

So you know that it is a fact that Trump did not take any advice from his many experienced and informed advisors?

You asked Bird_Gunner45.

I expect he supports voters who support him. aka the base.

81 per cent of White, born-again Evangelical Christians voted for Trump.

Presidential vote by religious affiliation and race
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/ft_16-11-09_relig_exitpoll_religrace/

If he wants to maintain his base, he had better keep those who voted for him happy.

I am not really a Trump fan but I see too many people being Negative Trump all the time. 

Not everyone,

Reply #711

That's pretty rich, being posted in a Trump bukkake-fest.

What gets me about Trump is he makes reflxive, unthought out decisions (embassy to Jerusalem) along with the lying and yet the sheeple continue to support him.

The move pleases white evangelicals. 81 per cent of them voted for him.

US Moving Its Embassy to Jerusalem 

Reply #54
"...he cares that white evangelicals continue to stand with him. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is one way to affirm his commitment to these evangelicals"

Reply #56
81 per cent of White, born-again/Evangelical Christians voted for him.

His lowest percentage by religious affiliation were Jewish voters at 24 per cent.

Reply #58
Only 16 percent of Jewish Americans support moving the embassy to Jerusalem immediately, according to AJC’s 2017 Survey of American Jewish Opinion.
https://www.ajc.org/survey2017
Slightly more than a third — 36 percent — favor moving it “at a later date in conjunction with progress in Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.”
But a plurality — 44 percent — disagree with moving the embassy all together.

My initial question in the whole thing was what was the actual strategic intent in the move.

Keep the white evangelicals happy.

"...he cares that white evangelicals continue to stand with him. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is one way to affirm his commitment to these evangelicals..."
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A12%2F1%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F27%2F2017&ei=TXVEWoPEOMT4jwSv1LbgDw&q=evangelicals++jerusalem&oq=evangelicals++jerusalem&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.26052.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.lzJqYWa07xs

US Moving Its Embassy to Jerusalem  has a three-page thread of its own.
https://army.ca/forums/threads/127089/post-1514212.html#msg1514212

As we end 2017, here's a list of things Trump has lied about so far.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

:goodpost:

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

So you know that it is a fact that Trump did not take any advice from his many experienced and informed advisors? I call BS.  Of course, one option would be to keep doing the same thing that has been done for decades with no effect.

No, I dont know that for a fact nor did I assert that I did. From the man himself, 'We cannot solve our problems by repeating same failed strategies of the past. Old challenges demand new approach, my announcement today is a new approach to the conflicts between Israel and Palestine'. I just don't believe that his strategy will work or change anything since the animosity is reciprocal and rooted in religious and social traditions or that he has a "strategy" other than to perhaps do the bidding of his base and the strong Israeli lobby.

 

[mariomike]

I just don't believe that his strategy will work or change anything since the animosity is reciprocal and rooted in religious and social traditions or that he has a "strategy" other than to perhaps do the bidding of his base and the strong Israeli lobby.

Dec 12, 2017

"President Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital last week made little sense to most Middle East experts. His own national security team opposed the decision. But for many white evangelical Christians, 81 percent of whom voted for Trump, it was great news."
https://www.vox.com/2017/12/12/16761540/trump-israel-jerusalem-embassy-evangelical-christians

Why evangelicals are 'ecstatic' about Trump's Jerusalem move
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/american-evangelicals-jerusalem/index.html

So you know that it is a fact that Trump did not take any advice from his many experienced and informed advisors? I call BS.

Trump’s Jerusalem Decision Shows That We Can’t Count on the “Grown-ups in the Room”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/trumps-jerusalem-decision-shows-that-we-cant-count-on-the-grownups-in-the-room.html
President Trump’s decision to announce Thursday that he would recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reportedly divided his advisers, with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis opposed to the move and Vice President Mike Pence, chief of staff John Kelly, and Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley arguing for it. Donor Sheldon Adelson was also a key voice urging Trump to make this call, according to the Washington Post.

See also,

UN Votes Against the US Moving Its Embassy to Jerusalem 
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/127089.0.html
3 pages.

 

[angus555]

Trump’s Jerusalem Decision Shows That We Can’t Count on the “Grown-ups in the Room”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/trumps-jerusalem-decision-shows-that-we-cant-count-on-the-grownups-in-the-room.html
President Trump’s decision to announce Thursday that he would recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reportedly divided his advisers, with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis opposed to the move

If perhaps a series of events would mean going down the list of presidential succession, I would hope it landed on James Mattis.

 

[mariomike]

If perhaps a series of events would mean going down the list of presidential succession, I would hope it landed on James Mattis.

I think ahead of him would be,

Mike Pence

Paul Ryan

Orin Hatch

Rex Tillerson

Steve Mnuchin

 

[angus555]

I think ahead of him would be,

Mike Pence

Paul Ryan

Orin Hatch

Rex Tillerson

Steve Mnuchin

:boke:

Although Rex Tillerson is not that bad. An outlier in the list.

Mattis/Tillerson would be an interesting ticket.

Although they may be too realistic and reasonable to get re-elected in the US. ;D

 

[dapaterson]

 

[Jarnhamar]

As we end 2017, here's a list of things Trump has lied about so far. Only 8 pages, less than I would have thought (though it doesn't include things he is just wrong about).

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

I noticed pushing fake intelligence leading to the invasion of a country and death of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands, or perhaps more, of foreign civilians wasn't on that list.

He's a weener alright and apparently lies about shit like the black unemployment rate in certain cities but he hardly seems like a warmonger hitler incarnate that the media is trying to paint him to be. 

Yes he's butting heads with North Korea but they seem a bigger threat to our way of life, and the planet, than Iraq or Afghanistan was.