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I think that pot's black. What do you think, kettle?Messmom said:
United Breaks Guitars
- Thread starter SARgirl
- Start date
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
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Not that their policies are relevant here, but to set a benchmark on the airline industry and musical instruments, I checked out Air Canada's policies to see how they line up with United Airlines.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/baggage/music_inst.html
Musical instruments as carry-on baggage:
Air Canada will try to accommodate smaller musical instruments (such as violins) as part of a passenger's carry-on baggage allowance only if the instruments can be stowed in an approved area for cabin baggage (i.e. overhead bin, underneath passenger seat).
Customers are reminded to arrive prepared to check the item, as it is never guaranteed that it can be accommodated on board due to passenger loads, aircraft limitations and/or storage space available.
Musical instruments as checked baggage:
If checked in separately, a musical instrument is considered a piece of baggage that counts towards your free checked baggage allowance.
Musical instruments are subject to all applicable additional checked baggage charges. An extra piece charge will be collected at the airport for each piece that exceeds the free checked baggage allowance on an Air Canada or Jazz flight.
For oversized instruments measuring more than 115in/292cm (e.g. guitars, tubas, double basses), please contact your Air Canada Cargo local sales office for handling. In some cases, a seat may also be purchased for these instruments. Contact Air Canada Reservations for more information.
The policies and charges of other airlines may differ from those of Air Canada and Jazz. For more information, please visit the code share flights page or contact the operating carrier.
And...their website re: carry-on baggage...
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/baggage/carry-on.html
Maximum size/Maximum weight
1 standard article
(e.g. roller bag).
See example 23 cm x 40 cm x 55 cm
(9" x 15.5" x 21.5")
(wheels and handles included in size) 10 kg
(22 lbs)
1 personal article
(e.g. laptop)
See example 16 cm x 33 cm x 43 cm
(6" x 13" x 17")
(wheels and handles included in size) 10 kg
(22 lbs)
So. How's about that tag you mentioned earlier?
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/baggage/music_inst.html
Musical instruments as carry-on baggage:
Air Canada will try to accommodate smaller musical instruments (such as violins) as part of a passenger's carry-on baggage allowance only if the instruments can be stowed in an approved area for cabin baggage (i.e. overhead bin, underneath passenger seat).
Customers are reminded to arrive prepared to check the item, as it is never guaranteed that it can be accommodated on board due to passenger loads, aircraft limitations and/or storage space available.
Musical instruments as checked baggage:
If checked in separately, a musical instrument is considered a piece of baggage that counts towards your free checked baggage allowance.
Musical instruments are subject to all applicable additional checked baggage charges. An extra piece charge will be collected at the airport for each piece that exceeds the free checked baggage allowance on an Air Canada or Jazz flight.
For oversized instruments measuring more than 115in/292cm (e.g. guitars, tubas, double basses), please contact your Air Canada Cargo local sales office for handling. In some cases, a seat may also be purchased for these instruments. Contact Air Canada Reservations for more information.
The policies and charges of other airlines may differ from those of Air Canada and Jazz. For more information, please visit the code share flights page or contact the operating carrier.
And...their website re: carry-on baggage...
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/baggage/carry-on.html
Maximum size/Maximum weight
1 standard article
(e.g. roller bag).
See example 23 cm x 40 cm x 55 cm
(9" x 15.5" x 21.5")
(wheels and handles included in size) 10 kg
(22 lbs)
1 personal article
(e.g. laptop)
See example 16 cm x 33 cm x 43 cm
(6" x 13" x 17")
(wheels and handles included in size) 10 kg
(22 lbs)
So. How's about that tag you mentioned earlier?
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
Oddly enough, the only signal I am receiving now from Messmom is...
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Touchy little bunch here aren't you?
Fisrt, where in my post did I suggest he take it as carry on luggage? That's correct folks, I did not. We all know that it is too large. What you do, pay attention here, is buy it a seat. Just like real musicians do for a valued intrument.
It is hard to tell from the horrid song in the video, but I am guessing that he actually makes a living with his guitar. Someone who actually cared about the guitar would have bought a proper case for transport if they were going to send it as checked luggage. There is a company not 30 minutes from where he lives (he drove by it to get the airport in Halifax) that sells foam packed hard cases.
This guy makes his living from that guitar and was either too stupid or too cheap to ensure it's safety.
Therefore, an idiot.
Fisrt, where in my post did I suggest he take it as carry on luggage? That's correct folks, I did not. We all know that it is too large. What you do, pay attention here, is buy it a seat. Just like real musicians do for a valued intrument.
It is hard to tell from the horrid song in the video, but I am guessing that he actually makes a living with his guitar. Someone who actually cared about the guitar would have bought a proper case for transport if they were going to send it as checked luggage. There is a company not 30 minutes from where he lives (he drove by it to get the airport in Halifax) that sells foam packed hard cases.
This guy makes his living from that guitar and was either too stupid or too cheap to ensure it's safety.
Therefore, an idiot.
- Reaction score
- 1,561
- Points
- 1,140
Messmom said:
Is it really too much to expect to check a baggage and expect it to be in the same way it was when you checked it? I travelled many times with an instrument and it was never damaged. I don't see why, in that particular case, it would be.
I worked around/in airplanes for the last 13 years of my life. When the job is properly done, there should be NO damage to whatever is inside the cases, provided it is packed properly, which seemed to be the case for that fellow.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Messmom, you probably didn't read the whole thread or you would have noted that in my first post I mentioned how Dave Carroll is a friend of mine. I really don't appreciating your bashing of his music or of his smarts either.
I know more than my fair share of musicians, some of whom are quite well known, and I don't know of anyone who has bought an extra seat for their instrument, ever. I also doubt that any air carrier would allow it. What name would you put on the boarding pass for the guitar? Taylor?
Dave is not saying that he expects his baggage to always come back in one piece. What he's saying is that United was liable because they so very blatantly caused the damage by throwing the instruments around.
I know more than my fair share of musicians, some of whom are quite well known, and I don't know of anyone who has bought an extra seat for their instrument, ever. I also doubt that any air carrier would allow it. What name would you put on the boarding pass for the guitar? Taylor?
Dave is not saying that he expects his baggage to always come back in one piece. What he's saying is that United was liable because they so very blatantly caused the damage by throwing the instruments around.
- Reaction score
- 94
- Points
- 530
Messmom said:
Listen idiot,
What part of the article didn't you read? His 3000.00 dollar "custom-made guitar" was packed in a foam lined double-sided hard case (most likely purchased from that very location you speak of). Did you actually read the article or read/watch any of the links provided about this story? I'm wagering not.
As for your "real musicians" comments ... it goes to prove you should check your pusserness next time you travel down the gangway; your arrogance is astounding.
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
"and was packed in a padded double case"
Makes you wonder what kind of abuse United was dishing out ref the picture of Carroll holding the broken guitar.
http://www.canada.com/Technology/Broken+guitar+spawns+YouTube+sensation/1774379/story.html
Makes you wonder what kind of abuse United was dishing out ref the picture of Carroll holding the broken guitar.
http://www.canada.com/Technology/Broken+guitar+spawns+YouTube+sensation/1774379/story.html
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
STATEMENT From Dave Carroll via YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_X-Qoh__mw
And...
News Story: Broken guitar song hits high note with musicians...
Airline protest song makes Halifax songwriter 'a hero' to traveling bands
By: CBC News . Ca
Posted: Friday, July 10, 2009
Link: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/07/10/united-breaks-guitars.html
Quote from News Story: "He accomplished with his one song more than all the lawyers and lobbyists and union officials in North America for the past eight years," Bill Skolnik, vice-president of the organization representing 17,000 Canadian musicians, said Friday.
Story: Read Below
Dave Carroll, whose song about United Airlines damaging his guitar has become an internet sensation, is a hero to Canadian musicians' association AFM Canada.
His humorous video, United Breaks Guitars, which shows airline baggage employees playing catch with his guitar, is highlighting an issue the Canadian branch of the American Federation of Musicians has been battling for years.
"He accomplished with his one song more than all the lawyers and lobbyists and union officials in North America for the past eight years," Bill Skolnik, vice-president of the organization representing 17,000 Canadian musicians, said Friday.
Carroll, the songwriter for Halifax band Sons of Maxwell, wrote a song about seeing the band's guitars deliberately damaged by baggage handlers outside the plane window, an incident that led to his $3,500 Taylor guitar being broken.
After trying for nine months to get compensation from United Airlines and being turned down flat, he vowed to write three songs about the experience.
The video of the first song went online Monday, and has had more than 1.3 million hits as of Friday.
That got the attention of United Airlines and every airline in North America, Skolnik told CBC News.
"To us, Dave is a hero. The working life of every musician is going to be better because of his music," Skolnik said.
"It's not money, it's care. That's really what his video's about. I mean, treat our instruments the way you treat your planes," he added.
Whether airlines will transport musical instruments, and how they handle them, has been an issue for AFM Canada since 2001, Skolnik said.
He estimates AFM Canada handles two cases a year of serious damage to musical instruments — including the National Ballet orchestra cellist who had his instrument smashed on a major tour.
"Every instrument is unique in how it sounds or how it feels," he said. "Musicians need the security of having their precious things with them."
The problem for musicians is that they never know whether they will be able to take their instruments into the cabin until they actually get on the plane.
Rules for instruments vary
The rules seem to vary, not only by airline, but by who happens to be working that day. There is potential to be stopped at the check-in counter, when going through security, at the gate and even when stepping onto the plane, Skolnik said.
Some airlines allow musicians to buy a seat for their cello or guitar, some say only smaller instruments are allowed on board.
Some airlines have lists of what is allowed — a story making the rounds a few years ago told of a mandolin player who swore to airline staff that his instrument was a clarinet so he could take it into the cabin.
Air Canada has a special area to check equipment such as golf clubs, skis and other sports equipment that requires special handling. That service has been extended to include instruments, he said, adding that musicians are willing to pay extra if it means their equipment is handled carefully.
But that's no solution as baggage handlers still mistreat the instrument, Skolnik said.
Restrictions have been loosened since 9/11, he acknowledged. The U.S. Transportation Safety Association issued a letter in 2005 which said that "it is not such a big terrible thing to put an instrument on board an airplane," Skolnik said.
Every AFM Canada member is issued a copy of this letter, but it bears no weight with airlines, who follow their own policies when it comes to instruments.
Skolnik says AFM Canada has been lobbying the airlines regularly about the difficulties musicians face, but nothing has had the impact of United Breaks Guitars.
"It's a great song and great musicianship. We have a tradition of satire in this country," he said.
Carroll has been fielding interview requests from media around the world over the song. He's written a second song about the incident and is planning a video performance. The third song is also on the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_X-Qoh__mw
And...
News Story: Broken guitar song hits high note with musicians...
Airline protest song makes Halifax songwriter 'a hero' to traveling bands
By: CBC News . Ca
Posted: Friday, July 10, 2009
Link: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/07/10/united-breaks-guitars.html
Quote from News Story: "He accomplished with his one song more than all the lawyers and lobbyists and union officials in North America for the past eight years," Bill Skolnik, vice-president of the organization representing 17,000 Canadian musicians, said Friday.
Story: Read Below
Dave Carroll, whose song about United Airlines damaging his guitar has become an internet sensation, is a hero to Canadian musicians' association AFM Canada.
His humorous video, United Breaks Guitars, which shows airline baggage employees playing catch with his guitar, is highlighting an issue the Canadian branch of the American Federation of Musicians has been battling for years.
"He accomplished with his one song more than all the lawyers and lobbyists and union officials in North America for the past eight years," Bill Skolnik, vice-president of the organization representing 17,000 Canadian musicians, said Friday.
Carroll, the songwriter for Halifax band Sons of Maxwell, wrote a song about seeing the band's guitars deliberately damaged by baggage handlers outside the plane window, an incident that led to his $3,500 Taylor guitar being broken.
After trying for nine months to get compensation from United Airlines and being turned down flat, he vowed to write three songs about the experience.
The video of the first song went online Monday, and has had more than 1.3 million hits as of Friday.
That got the attention of United Airlines and every airline in North America, Skolnik told CBC News.
"To us, Dave is a hero. The working life of every musician is going to be better because of his music," Skolnik said.
"It's not money, it's care. That's really what his video's about. I mean, treat our instruments the way you treat your planes," he added.
Whether airlines will transport musical instruments, and how they handle them, has been an issue for AFM Canada since 2001, Skolnik said.
He estimates AFM Canada handles two cases a year of serious damage to musical instruments — including the National Ballet orchestra cellist who had his instrument smashed on a major tour.
"Every instrument is unique in how it sounds or how it feels," he said. "Musicians need the security of having their precious things with them."
The problem for musicians is that they never know whether they will be able to take their instruments into the cabin until they actually get on the plane.
Rules for instruments vary
The rules seem to vary, not only by airline, but by who happens to be working that day. There is potential to be stopped at the check-in counter, when going through security, at the gate and even when stepping onto the plane, Skolnik said.
Some airlines allow musicians to buy a seat for their cello or guitar, some say only smaller instruments are allowed on board.
Some airlines have lists of what is allowed — a story making the rounds a few years ago told of a mandolin player who swore to airline staff that his instrument was a clarinet so he could take it into the cabin.
Air Canada has a special area to check equipment such as golf clubs, skis and other sports equipment that requires special handling. That service has been extended to include instruments, he said, adding that musicians are willing to pay extra if it means their equipment is handled carefully.
But that's no solution as baggage handlers still mistreat the instrument, Skolnik said.
Restrictions have been loosened since 9/11, he acknowledged. The U.S. Transportation Safety Association issued a letter in 2005 which said that "it is not such a big terrible thing to put an instrument on board an airplane," Skolnik said.
Every AFM Canada member is issued a copy of this letter, but it bears no weight with airlines, who follow their own policies when it comes to instruments.
Skolnik says AFM Canada has been lobbying the airlines regularly about the difficulties musicians face, but nothing has had the impact of United Breaks Guitars.
"It's a great song and great musicianship. We have a tradition of satire in this country," he said.
Carroll has been fielding interview requests from media around the world over the song. He's written a second song about the incident and is planning a video performance. The third song is also on the way.
- Reaction score
- 1,167
- Points
- 940
United Airlines gives to charity in guitar gaffe
Article Link
THE CANADIAN PRESS
HALIFAX – Dave Carroll is getting ready to sing a happy tune.
United Airlines, the company whose customer service prompted the musician to write a song that's garnered worldwide attention, has agreed to make a donation to charity to make up for its mistakes.
"United will donate $3,000 to the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz for music education for kids," a spokeswoman said yesterday.
Carroll had spent several months dealing trying to get United Airlines to reimburse the $1,200 he paid to repair a $3,500 Taylor acoustic guitar damaged on a flight to Nebraska in March 2008.
He had requested that United direct any compensation to charity.
"I think it's pretty great and a show of good faith to help other people," Carroll said before performing with his band, Sons of Maxwell, in Arichat, N.S.
More on link
Article Link
THE CANADIAN PRESS
HALIFAX – Dave Carroll is getting ready to sing a happy tune.
United Airlines, the company whose customer service prompted the musician to write a song that's garnered worldwide attention, has agreed to make a donation to charity to make up for its mistakes.
"United will donate $3,000 to the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz for music education for kids," a spokeswoman said yesterday.
Carroll had spent several months dealing trying to get United Airlines to reimburse the $1,200 he paid to repair a $3,500 Taylor acoustic guitar damaged on a flight to Nebraska in March 2008.
He had requested that United direct any compensation to charity.
"I think it's pretty great and a show of good faith to help other people," Carroll said before performing with his band, Sons of Maxwell, in Arichat, N.S.
More on link
- Reaction score
- 2,621
- Points
- 940
Clearly....Sons of Maxwell's Dave Carroll is more musically effective than that former-Beatle, whatsisname, with his "Give Peace a Chance" ;D
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Title:
A Canadian riff on the United guitar song
Another airline, another guitar smashed. This time, a happy ending
Link:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/travel/a-canadian-riff-on-the-united-guitar-song/article1222797/
Story:
Steve Ladurantaye
From Saturday's Globe and Mail Last updated on Wednesday, Jul. 22, 2009 11:03AM EDT
There's never a good time to have your guitar smashed by an airline, but as Toronto musician Kevin Fox found out, this summer is probably as good as it'll ever get.
And he has Halifax musician Dave Carroll to thank. Carroll, who plays in a band called Sons of Maxwell, won the attention of United Airlines and drew more than three million YouTube viewers this month after posting a video of a song about his damaged guitar and the airline's handling of the situation.
The song – called United Song #1 – features lines such as “United breaks guitars” and “you broke it, you should fix it,” and is meant as the first of a three-part series. He hopes the trilogy ends with a song about his new guitar, provided by the airline.
As Carroll flitted from interview to interview to answer questions about the song and his $3,500 Taylor acoustic guitar – CNN's Wolf Blitzer even picked up the story –Fox realized he had just been given some leverage in his conflict with Sunwing Airlines. He had flown to St. John's for a solo show in June – he also plays with Chantal Kreviazuk and Raine Maida of Our Lady Peace – and found his $2,000 Simon & Patrick acoustic guitar had been destroyed en route. He and his wife, Tammy, began an e-mail exchange with the airline but weren't optimistic of a settlement.
That is, at least, until Tammy sent the airline a link to Carroll's video: The next day, she received a message thanking her for the link and informing her that the airline would pick up the costs.
“I really do owe those guys a thank you of some sort,” Fox said. “I have to think the United story helped convince them to do the right thing.”
A Canadian riff on the United guitar song
Another airline, another guitar smashed. This time, a happy ending
Link:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/travel/a-canadian-riff-on-the-united-guitar-song/article1222797/
Story:
Steve Ladurantaye
From Saturday's Globe and Mail Last updated on Wednesday, Jul. 22, 2009 11:03AM EDT
There's never a good time to have your guitar smashed by an airline, but as Toronto musician Kevin Fox found out, this summer is probably as good as it'll ever get.
And he has Halifax musician Dave Carroll to thank. Carroll, who plays in a band called Sons of Maxwell, won the attention of United Airlines and drew more than three million YouTube viewers this month after posting a video of a song about his damaged guitar and the airline's handling of the situation.
The song – called United Song #1 – features lines such as “United breaks guitars” and “you broke it, you should fix it,” and is meant as the first of a three-part series. He hopes the trilogy ends with a song about his new guitar, provided by the airline.
As Carroll flitted from interview to interview to answer questions about the song and his $3,500 Taylor acoustic guitar – CNN's Wolf Blitzer even picked up the story –Fox realized he had just been given some leverage in his conflict with Sunwing Airlines. He had flown to St. John's for a solo show in June – he also plays with Chantal Kreviazuk and Raine Maida of Our Lady Peace – and found his $2,000 Simon & Patrick acoustic guitar had been destroyed en route. He and his wife, Tammy, began an e-mail exchange with the airline but weren't optimistic of a settlement.
That is, at least, until Tammy sent the airline a link to Carroll's video: The next day, she received a message thanking her for the link and informing her that the airline would pick up the costs.
“I really do owe those guys a thank you of some sort,” Fox said. “I have to think the United story helped convince them to do the right thing.”
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Title:
Revenge is best served cold – on YouTube
How a broken guitar became a smash hit
Link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/chris_ayres/article6722407.ece
Part of Story:
... But Carroll kept his promise. The first song, United Breaks Guitars, has now been played 3,515,357 times on YouTube, become a smash hit on iTunes, and has resulted in Carroll’s rather bemused appearance on every major news network in America. Meanwhile, within four days of the song going online, the gathering thunderclouds of bad PR caused United Airlines’ stock price to suffer a mid-flight stall, and it plunged by 10 per cent, costing shareholders $180 million. Which, incidentally, would have bought Carroll more than 51,000 replacement guitars.
More on Link.
Revenge is best served cold – on YouTube
How a broken guitar became a smash hit
Link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/chris_ayres/article6722407.ece
Part of Story:
... But Carroll kept his promise. The first song, United Breaks Guitars, has now been played 3,515,357 times on YouTube, become a smash hit on iTunes, and has resulted in Carroll’s rather bemused appearance on every major news network in America. Meanwhile, within four days of the song going online, the gathering thunderclouds of bad PR caused United Airlines’ stock price to suffer a mid-flight stall, and it plunged by 10 per cent, costing shareholders $180 million. Which, incidentally, would have bought Carroll more than 51,000 replacement guitars.
More on Link.
- Reaction score
- 622
- Points
- 1,140
TheStar.com is reporting that United Airlines customer service had lost Dave Carroll's luggage during a trip to give a lecture on...customer service. I don't know about you, but I find some humour in this.
