Updated Army Service Dress project

[dapaterson]

If we assume a minimum of 60k personnel in an Army uniform (including Reg, P Res and COATS) then $5m means each member's DEU entitlement costs under $100 each.

If the Army has sufficient personnel supply to dedicate people to work on this, I will respectfully submit that they have too many people doing the wrong thing. the Army's capability deficiencies are largely the fault of the Army, not of the procurement system.

 

[McG]

If the Army has sufficient personnel supply to dedicate people to work on this, I will respectfully submit that they have too many people doing the wrong thing. the Army's capability deficiencies are largely the fault of the Army, not of the procurement system.

Apparently CCA specifically stated to some groups that Army will not pursue a ball cap because it would require more human resource and staffing effort than can be wasted on a non-operational equipment output. I suspect the only reason the new British uniforms are moving is because they already had momentum under previous leadership.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Apparently CCA specifically stated to some groups that Army will not pursue a ball cap because it would require more human resource and staffing effort than can be wasted on a non-operational equipment output. I suspect the only reason the new British uniforms are moving is because they already had momentum under previous leadership.

The British have always issued a combat cap, which was a good piece of kit as I recall. It fit well, wasn't too heavy/hot, and absorbed sweat really well (unlike some baseball hats). We wore them when skiing in Norway, the ear flaps helped prevent frost nip, then swapped them out for the 'Hat, Warm, Deputy Dawg' when stopped.

Looks like they've carried on the motion into MTP land:

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If we assume a minimum of 60k personnel in an Army uniform (including Reg, P Res and COATS) then $5m means each member's DEU entitlement costs under $100 each.

If the Army has sufficient personnel supply to dedicate people to work on this, I will respectfully submit that they have too many people doing the wrong thing. the Army's capability deficiencies are largely the fault of the Army, not of the procurement system.

Flipside is that smaller, simpler and less critical contracts is where you train your people before having them move onto the more complex projects.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Apparently CCA specifically stated to some groups that Army will not pursue a ball cap because it would require more human resource and staffing effort than can be wasted on a non-operational equipment output. I suspect the only reason the new British uniforms are moving is because they already had momentum under previous leadership.

Which is amusing as there are ballcaps for Cadets already in the system, just need to sort out colour and sizing. The US Army ones in the 1980's were all the same and you wore your rank badge on them.

 

[Furniture]

Apparently CCA specifically stated to some groups that Army will not pursue a ball cap because it would require more human resource and staffing effort than can be wasted on a non-operational equipment output. I suspect the only reason the new British uniforms are moving is because they already had momentum under previous leadership.

That seems a bit like an excuse to not change rather than an honest answer. The RCN and RCAF use the same hat maker, and came up with pretty simple designs. Make the hat the same/similar colour as the beret, and add Regiment/Corps/Branch crest centered on the front like the RCAF hats. Sell them at CANEX as an optional item. I bet a CWO at C Army could knock out the paperwork over one coffee break... Particularly if they popped by the RCAF lines in the next building over and asked for a copy of the air force's paperwork to copy.

 

[PuckChaser]

The sizing info that DSSPM usually provides to industry is from the 2012 Canadian Forces Anthropometric Survey (CFAS) that was done by DRDC Toronto. For the Canadian Army Service Dress they also measured another roughly 500 soldiers to gain additional measurements that were not in the 2012 CFAS.

Do you know if that's updated Logistik Unicorps sizing for DEU? I can fit 2 of me in my shirts...

 

[dimsum]

Do you know if that's updated Logistik Unicorps sizing for DEU? I can fit 2 of me in my shirts...

Space for you to grow into it.

 

[dimsum]

Apparently CCA specifically stated to some groups that Army will not pursue a ball cap because it would require more human resource and staffing effort than can be wasted on a non-operational equipment output.

Ironically, the RCN and RCAF caps are worn only with operational uniform.

I suspect the only reason the new British uniforms are moving is because they already had momentum under previous leadership.

…and they didn’t have the green fabric anymore. So they had to do something.

 

[PrairieFella]

Ironically, the RCN and RCAF caps are worn only with operational uniform.


…and they didn’t have the green fabric anymore. So they had to do something.

Homie is just angry they didn't take the 5-10 million budget for dress uniforms and buy...2 M777s.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Ironically, the RCN and RCAF caps are worn only with operational uniform.


…and they didn’t have the green fabric anymore. So they had to do something.

Pretty sure you can get any colour/quality fabric you want, if you go to the factory and willing to order a fair bit.

 

[RangerRay]

For Army ball caps, just get these done in CADPAT.

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[dimsum]

Pretty sure you can get any colour/quality fabric you want, if you go to the factory and willing to order a fair bit.

My understanding was that it was the case, and while they were at it, had enough push to change the uniform style back.

For Army ball caps, just get these done in CADPAT.

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Brilliant - now they will need 3 for each type of CADPAT

Or, the same brown as the t-shirts, since that’s the one piece of visible uniform that all CA pers wear in operational dress of whatever colour pattern.

 

[RocketRichard]

If we assume a minimum of 60k personnel in an Army uniform (including Reg, P Res and COATS) then $5m means each member's DEU entitlement costs under $100 each.

If the Army has sufficient personnel supply to dedicate people to work on this, I will respectfully submit that they have too many people doing the wrong thing. the Army's capability deficiencies are largely the fault of the Army, not of the procurement system.

How about CIC officers and COATS not wear the same uniforms as other members in the CAF?

 

[dimsum]

How about CIC officers and COATS not wear the same uniforms as other members in the CAF?

 

[dapaterson]

How about CIC officers and COATS not wear the same uniforms as other members in the CAF?

So smaller quantities of everything, more items to stock...

 

[dimsum]

So smaller quantities of everything, more items to stock...

Logistik Unicorp Online will solve it all, no?

 

[markppcli]

the Canex sells an OD ball cap with a subdued Canadian Flag on the front. Just authorize that.

 

[ArmyRick]

How about CIC officers and COATS not wear the same uniforms as other members in the CAF?

Why would you do such a bone headed move? They are members of the CAF, period.

So smaller quantities of everything, more items to stock...

Valid point.

 

[Winds]

Why would you do such a bone headed move? They are members of the CAF, period.


Valid point.

The can of worms is now open.

Well, the Rangers are also a sub-component of the reserve force and have their own distinct uniform. Like Rangers, CIC members don't need to meet universality of service requirements and can't be called into active service, unlike members of the RegF and Primary Reserve.

Cadets themselves already have a distinct uniform, which they continue to wear when employed as staff cadets for summer training... What is the benefit of having CIC officers wear different uniforms than those they are responsible for training/leading? Arguably, wearing the cadet uniforms, rather than the regular CAF ones, would make CIC more similar to the other components of the CAF. It'd also probably cost less money and simplify supply to cadet units in remote areas.

The merits of CIC holding a commission to be in charge of children, who have no obligation to follow their orders, is a whole other discussion not relevant to uniforms but that may be worth having... Why give CIC command authority and pay them a captain's salary when they do not have comparable educational prerequisites, medical or physical standards, training, or service obligations of officers in the RegF or PRes? Again, the Rangers are also members of the CAF and do not have commissioned officers (aside from those RegF members posted in support roles), and they go on armed patrols.