US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[RangerRay]

Good lord, Trump’s address is just…….wow.
I have no words to describe it.

Castro-esque?

 

[FSTO]

How about interpretive dance?

 

[Remius]

How exactly would the facts on Trump’s positions be disseminated without the media, and how would one not call it “spin”?

Even Trump’s social media posts are distributed via the media.

 

[The Bread Guy]

For the record, here's the transcripts for anyone interested in reading if they didn't get a chance to watch/listen ....

Read Donald Trump's full RNC speech accepting GOP nomination

Donald Trump formally accepted the Republican nomination for president during the fourth and final night of the Republican National Convention.

www.nbcboston.com

Read the Transcript of Donald J. Trump’s Convention Speech

He spoke for just over 90 minutes.

www.nytimes.com

Transcript of Donald Trump’s full speech ... | Happy Scribe

Transcript and discussion of Donald Trump’s full speech at the RNC from ABC News podcast

www.happyscribe.com

 

[Jarnhamar]

Trump brought up some points about the US always sending money to everyone else that's likely to hit home for a bunch of peopoe. Afghanistan cost US tax payers over 2 trillion dollars - something like 300 million a day for 2 decades I was reading. They even send money to Iran.

 

[Remius]

Trump brought up some points about the US always sending money to everyone else that's likely to hit home for a bunch of peopoe. Afghanistan cost US tax payers over 2 trillion dollars - something like 300 million a day for 2 decades I was reading. They even send money to Iran.

He’s talking about Ukraine. And it will cost Americans a lot more if they don’t want to spend now. They will definitely spend later.

 

[The Bread Guy]

He’s talking about Ukraine. And it will cost Americans a lot more if they don’t want to spend now. They will definitely spend later.

Not if the next president doesn't want to lift a finger to defend Europe - hypothetically, of course.

 

[Jarnhamar]

And it will cost Americans a lot more if they don’t want to spend now. They will definitely spend later.

Without meaning to derail the thread much, why would that be? Are we actually worried Russia will invade a NATO country?

 

[Remius]

Without meaning to derail the thread much, why would that be? Are we actually worried Russia will invade a NATO country?

NATO countries in that area certainly think so.

If Russia decides that Ukraine is not enough and pushes further the US won’t be able to sit it out while the rest of the world is dealing with it. Right now they are only sending money and equipment. Warm bodies and real hardware are not yet committed.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It would be a pretty bold move to outright invade a NATO country, especially with the state of their military currently. It's a possibility but US tax payers may not think it's enough of a risk to keep pumping in billions of dollars - on top of all the aid they send every other country. On top of covering for countries like Canada not meeting out NATO obligations.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

NATO countries in that area certainly think so.

If Russia decides that Ukraine is not enough and pushes further the US won’t be able to sit it out while the rest of the world is dealing with it. Right now they are only sending money and equipment. Warm bodies and real hardware are not yet committed.

I don't think Russia would try the combined forces of NATO. They are having enough trouble making real gains in Ukraine, who have fought them to a virtual standstill. Ukraine has not attacked the Russian homeland to any great extent. NATO would not be so bound. My first move would be turning Red Square and the Kremlin to rubble. Just my rambling thoughts.

 

[Remius]

It would be a pretty bold move to outright invade a NATO country, especially with the state of their military currently. It's a possibility but US tax payers may not think it's enough of a risk to keep pumping in billions of dollars - on top of all the aid they send every other country. On top of covering for countries like Canada not meeting out NATO obligations.

Pretty much what plenty of people said about the invasion of Ukraine. That it was unlikely. even Russia was promising it had no intentions of invading.

And look where we are now.

Putin has ambitions.

 

[Brad Sallows]

He’s talking about Ukraine. And it will cost Americans a lot more if they don’t want to spend now. They will definitely spend later.

Only if Europeans fail to rise sufficiently to the occasion.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Pretty much what plenty of people said about the invasion of Ukraine. That it was unlikely. even Russia was promising it had no intentions of invading.

Ah, suppositions.

Putin has ambitions.

Ah, more suppositions.

 

[Remius]

Ah, suppositions.

By all means please expand why that is a supposition and not a fact. They said they wouldn’t invade and then they did.

Ah, more suppositions.

He’s just misunderstood right?


Look, if Americans want to choose that path that is their choice. I think it’s the wrong one.

 

[CountDC]

Read it and have to admit it was a good one. Will things work out the way he stated is another matter.

 

[Brad Sallows]

By all means please expand why that is a supposition and not a fact. They said they wouldn’t invade and then they did.

They supposed Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine. Their speculation was wrong.

He’s just misunderstood right?

The fact he invaded Ukraine doesn't mean he'll invade a NATO member. I can guess that he won't get the whole apple with this bite. If he starts another war somewhere else - even nearby - the apple might take the opportunity to bite back.

Look, if Americans want to choose that path that is their choice. I think it’s the wrong one.

Europe isn't going to be kicking in carrier battle groups, air wings, and infantry divisions if China tries to invade Taiwan. Europe is more than big enough to deal with Russia. Everyone else is in a situation in which the more the US taxpayers contribute, the less other taxpayers have to contribute, Canada included. The US is the country almost everyone else assumes will have weapons, ammunition, formations, and people ready to go whenever something flares up. We expect their taxpayers to prepare for the next emergency and to contribute to whatever else is going on. Meanwhile our own readiness for a big fight is a joke.

 

[Remius]

They supposed Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine. Their speculation was wrong.

And their speculation that he won’t expand further is also likely wrong. But I guess well see,

The fact he invaded Ukraine doesn't mean he'll invade a NATO member. I can guess that he won't get the whole apple with this bite. If he starts another war somewhere else - even nearby - the apple might take the opportunity to bite back.

Not if the isolationist have their way. They won’t realise that Rome has fallen until it’s too late. Stop Putin now and the apple won’t have to bite back in a more expensive way.

Europe isn't going to be kicking in carrier battle groups, air wings, and infantry divisions if China tries to invade Taiwan. Europe is more than big enough to deal with Russia. Everyone else is in a situation in which the more the US taxpayers contribute, the less other taxpayers have to contribute, Canada included. The US is the country almost everyone else assumes will have weapons, ammunition, formations, and people ready to go whenever something flares up. We expect their taxpayers to prepare for the next emergency and to contribute to whatever else is going on. Meanwhile our own readiness for a big fight is a joke.

And the US actually set up the system to be that way.

And does Taiwan fall under NATO mandate and interests? It speaks to European and North American security but nothing about Taiwan.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't think Russia would try the combined forces of NATO ...

They wouldn't need to.

If Trump's previous tone/attitude re: NATO continues into a POTUS47 term, if RUS poked, say, Finland or Estonia ....
1) if US audiences are tired of helping out Europe, they'll be OK with RUS taking off a bit without the US getting involved, and
2) if foreign actors continue to help whip up the "Europeans want to defend NATO to the last American/Canadian/whatever" narrative via the usual suspect info ops, and various publics buy into the "what have they done for us lately?" (like they did during POTUS45's term, and are starting to with UKR), there'll be less public appetite - and more political pressure - on all governments to stay out of 'er in spite of Article 5.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Not if the isolationist have their way. They won’t realise that Rome has fallen until it’s too late. Stop Putin now and the apple won’t have to bite back in a more expensive way.

Again, Europe can do that without the US chipping in. Anyone who seriously believes that Putin is lining up to attack a NATO member ought to behave accordingly. I'm not seeing much urgency except in the countries bordering NATO. I'm not seeing any in Canada. From that I infer that behind the closed doors of the high councils their information is telling them an invasion of a NATO member is low-risk. All the noise about what the US should be doing is just the usual opportunistic free-loading.

And the US actually set up the system to be that way.

Should that be what our PM tells them when confronted by requests to ante up a little more? We aren't forbidden to step outside that "system".

And does Taiwan fall under NATO mandate and interests? It speaks to European and North American security but nothing about Taiwan.

Ukraine isn't a NATO member. Once beyond NATO members, it's reasonable to look at the entire world.