Voluntary Release (VR) from Reserve - anytime [Merged]

[Mudshuvel]

With how easy this new FORCES test is there will no longer be a requirement for fat camp. 

Been a while Stacked!

The FORCE test is rumoured to be hitting CFLRS 2014 Fiscal year. By then the may have up'd the antes. It would certainly get rid of WFT since it is completely 'based' off of operational fitness (ie: mobility test), if they fail that, au revoir.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

How will FORCE get rid of the need for Warrior?  Have you seen some policy from CFLRS Cmdt, CDA etc on this?

 

[PMedMoe]

Not to mention, pretty sure it's not "rumoured" to hit in 2014.

 

[NavComm87]

Good news, now we just have to get rid of fat camp warrior platoon and we'll save a whole lot of money flying people out who just waste time there.

As a former warrior candidate, I just want to let you know that the program is not going away, and is by no stretch of the imagination a waste of money for the CF. 4 out of 5 candidates that enter Warrior Platoon are successful graduates of CFLRS.

 

[Jarnhamar]

As a former warrior candidate, I just want to let you know that the program is not going away, and is by no stretch of the imagination a waste of money for the CF. 4 out of 5 candidates that enter Warrior Platoon are successful graduates of CFLRS.

No offense intended but in my narrow opinion 4 out of 5 of the candidates you mentioned shouldn't have been accepted by the Canadian Forces and sent to basic training before they were physically ready.

 

[PuckChaser]

As a former warrior candidate, I just want to let you know that the program is not going away, and is by no stretch of the imagination a waste of money for the CF. 4 out of 5 candidates that enter Warrior Platoon are successful graduates of CFLRS.

And yet we've spent all that money to get someone in shape who should have been in shape before they showed up. Plenty of successful graduates of CFLRS had to complete a PT test before even showing up to BMQ. 4/5 candidates in WFT graduate? That means there's at least 20% savings in cutting WFT by not wasting money on that 1/5 who won't pass regardless, not to mention having to delay training by months for individuals who finally get into shape.

You won't get any sympathy from me, I failed my PT test at 16 because I took it for granted, by 1 pushup. It made me value how much fitness meant to the CF, and I exempted as soon as I was eligible to do it again.

 

[NavComm87]

That may be true, and I don't believe that is the candidate's fault as much as the recruitment process. Personally, I trained for 5months before heading to BMQ, and it still wasn't enough to pass the minimum standards. Fitness comes easy to some, and not to others. Warrior and AWT are support programs for those who have failed at something during BMQ. Getting rid of it would result in a loss of many dedicated CF personnel.

 

[NavComm87]

1 in 5 that do not succeed in Warrior are not usually due to fitness, but to VRs

 

[PuckChaser]

That may be true, and I don't believe that is the candidate's fault as much as the recruitment process.

Right, so we fix the loophole in the recruitment process that allows people to enroll who aren't in shape. Especially now with the FORCE test. Its a bare minimum level of fitness, and if you can't pass that, I dare say we should find a better candidate. We're not exactly hurting for them.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

As a former warrior candidate, I just want to let you know that the program is not going away, and is by no stretch of the imagination a waste of money for the CF. 4 out of 5 candidates that enter Warrior Platoon are successful graduates of CFLRS.

You use that stat like it's some kind of achievement. 4/5 of warrior candidates pass BASIC training?

 

[Jarnhamar]

100 soldiers on warrior platoon for 6 months is 54'000 meals  (price of the food, cost of cooks prepping and cooking meals, price associated with procuring the food)


I'm not sure how much 54'000 meals cost but telling people they can't join until they pass X fitness test would save a lot of it.

Getting rid of warrior platoon would also allow dedicated trained members of the CF to put their time and effort (and CF resources) into training people who have met the standard.  More soldiers trained faster alleviating the backlogged recruiting system allowing even more to join the CF faster.

It's great that you passed Navcomm but I don't think you'll find many people here who support the extra money time and effort put into warrior platoon.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

and is by no stretch of the imagination a waste of money for the CF.

This is BS.

Warrior is nothing other than a fix that was implemented to fix the decision to remove the PT test from the Reg Force recruiting process.  That's it, that's all.  The proper fix?

Implement the PT test again BEFORE the mbr is sworn in, and remove Warrior. 

You don't have enough time in yet to understand what you are saying and why it is not correct.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That may be true, and I don't believe that is the candidate's fault as much as the recruitment process. Personally, I trained for 5months before heading to BMQ, and it still wasn't enough to pass the minimum standards. Fitness comes easy to some, and not to others.

Wait.  The recruiting process is responsible for the level of personal fitness applicants and new mbr's have, or don't have?

:

Getting rid of it would result in a loss of many dedicated CF personnel things returning to the way it was for DECADES before it ever existed, which is the way it should have remained.  If people are actually dedicated to the CF they will get off the couch and get make some reasonable attempt to not mimic a Butterball turkey before gracing the Green Doors with their presence.

FTFY    >

 

[Emilio]

This is BS.

Warrior is nothing other than a fix that was implemented to fix the decision to remove the PT test from the Reg Force recruiting process.  That's it, that's all.  The proper fix?

Implement the PT test again BEFORE the mbr is sworn in, and remove Warrior. 

You don't have enough time in yet to understand what you are saying and why it is not correct.

So if an applicant is competitive in everything other then their physical fitness (education,work experience,maturity), they should be cast aside for other less suitable applicants?

I'm all for physical endurance being considered in the application process, but not if it means cutting out qualified applicants.

 

[PuckChaser]

So if an applicant is competitive in everything other then their physical fitness (education,work experience,maturity), they should be cast aside for other less suitable applicants?

I'm all for physical endurance being considered in the application process, but not if it means cutting out qualified applicants.

No one is saying you change the merit list based on PT scores, but you should be doing a PT test as part of the medical/interview process. Don't pass, don't get merit listed. Oh wait, isn't that exactly how our promotion boards are right now?

You're applying for a job that has a minimum fitness standard where we can fire you for not meeting it. Not having to do it before we pay to fly you to CFLRS is a huge waste of funds we could be using elsewhere. There is no candidate so qualified that we should take them even though they didn't pass a PT test. If you were smart enough to make yourself have a competitive file, you should be smart enough to realize you need to be in shape to be successful in the CAF.

 

[EME Hopeful]

I'm just going to preface my statement by saying this is totally based off what I was told in my interview (still waiting on word if I got selected)

It seems like the current standards are set so low that it would be pretty sad if you couldn't pass.  Its not the exact words of the conversation I had with the interviewing officer but it went along the lines of

Officer : "You think you can do 20 push up straight in proper military form?"
Me: "Yes, not a problem.  I mean that sounds pretty minimal for someone applying to the military"

To which he responded: "You'd be surprised how many people can't even do 4 in a row"

To which I sat there dumbfounded until the officer moved on to a different topic

I understand that fitness comes different to different people, but it sounds like to me (like I said I can only speculate at this point) there is no reason not to be able to meet the standards that are currently set

 

[PuckChaser]

To which he responded: "You'd be surprised how many people can't even do 4 in a row"

To which I sat there dumbfounded until the officer moved on to a different topic

I understand that fitness comes different to different people, but it sounds like to me (like I said I can only speculate at this point) there is no reason not to be able to meet the standards that are currently set

And you're an applicant who has yet to see the results of a poor fitness culture in the CAF. Your attitude is what all recruits should have, not "Well, 4/5 of us WFT people can pass BMQ, we're not a waste!".

 

[George Wallace]

So if an applicant is competitive in everything other then their physical fitness (education,work experience,maturity), they should be cast aside for other less suitable applicants?

I'm all for physical endurance being considered in the application process, but not if it means cutting out qualified applicants.

If you are not physically fit to do the job, all the education, work experience and maturity you talk about mean nothing.  The real life Canadian Armed Forces are very demanding physically at time.  Being able to play Call of Duty, does not a soldier make.  You have to be physically fit.  If you can not carry your weapon and ammunition, you are useless to the military.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So if an applicant is competitive in everything other then their physical fitness (education,work experience,maturity), they should be cast aside for other less suitable applicants?

I'm all for physical endurance being considered in the application process, but not if it means cutting out qualified applicants.

Would you hire me to fix your car if I was really really strong but didn't know enough about cars to fix it yet and it'll take me 6 months to learn enough to fix it, except you'll be paying me every day for 6 months until I 'm ready to fix your car and then maybe after paying me for a few more months, I might fix it.

Or, would you bypass me and go to the next guy who's able to fix your car right now.

 

[EME Hopeful]

I'm just going to throw this idea out there just to create a change of pace.

How about reintroducing the PT to the application process but not as an end all be all way.  What I mean is have the applicant do the PT and if they fail send them home with some work out information and a new date that he/she has to come back to do the PT again.  If he fails again then its over. 

-This way it covers those who have the commitment but don't have the know how to work out effectively,

-It weeds out those that don't have the drive (since if they fail again they have no one to blame except themselves if they were given a training plan) and would act to save some VR's when basic does start,

-It ensures that everyone being flown out to BMQ/BMOQ meet physical standards

-and it should cost the CF very little to draw up the training guidelines given to those who failed once. 

This format is also based off the CFAT where if the applicant fails the first time they're given one more shot to write it at a later date.