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Walts, posers & wannabes (merged)

A plaid bow tie?  IIRC it's black only.
Although that's hardly evidence of a "fraud or faker".... jackass with questionable sartorial competence possibly.  ;D
 
myself.only said:
A plaid bow tie?  IIRC it's black only.
Although that's hardly evidence of a "fraud or faker".... jackass with questionable sartorial competence possibly.  ;D

RCAF tartan maybe?
 
Gramps said:
RCAF tartan maybe?
That would have been my first guess as well...

I very much would be interested in hearing the "other side" of the story. It may read something like this:

Some guy who said he wasn't military but was obviously wearing ID discs outside of his clothes challenged us on our dress protocols. He clearly had no clue what he was talking about so we assumed he was a nut job and certainly not in the military. At that point we took off because, hey, pre-dinner shmoozing includes liquor.

Technically, you the OP have a duty to identify yourself using your Military ID when requested by a superior officer, MP or commissionaire involved in a security role. If you had your ID discs with you, I'm willing to bet you had your NDI 10 or 20 as well. The fact you didn't (by lying) and instead were seeking to call them out does not scream integrity. Instead it screams "know it all," with a very misplaced sense of ego.

If you feel your anonymity will protect you from an RSM's wrath when calling out higher ranks on their dress (which may have been 100% correct by my read),  you will be extremely mistaken.
 
myself.only said:
A plaid bow tie?  IIRC it's black only.
Although that's hardly evidence of a "fraud or faker".... jackass with questionable sartorial competence possibly.  ;D

Tartan bowties are not unknown around Highland regiments... And we happen to have one in Ottawa.  Just sayin'
 
cavalryman said:
Tartan bowties are not unknown around Highland regiments... And we happen to have one in Ottawa.  Just sayin'

Yeah that was my first thought.... but wouldn't that be worn with the kilt?
Maybe he's only half-Scottish from the waist-up?

Anyway, like I said, odd accoutrement but it's hardly a smoking gun of waltdom.
 
myself.only said:
Yeah that was my first thought.... but wouldn't that be worn with the kilt?
Maybe he's only half-Scottish from the waist-up?

Anyway, like I said, odd accoutrement but it's hardly a smoking gun of waltdom.

Sometimes Officers/SnrNCO's wear Trews when in fancy dress.
 
Hatchet Man said:
Sometimes Officers/SnrNCO's wear Trews when in fancy dress.

Which look horrible IMHO, somewhere there is a VW Beetle missing it's seat covers....

;D
 
They could have also been taking the piss out of the OP for subconsciously flashing his Army Run finish tags...er...I meant to say ID discs*.  As others pointed out, sounds like some battlespace shaping before the dinner...

...I was angry because based on my limited knowledge...

Then you should channel your anger into reading and understanding at least the basic material contained within the CFP-265. :nod:

Regards
G2G

* next time you could be extra cool with your ID discs and flip them around so that your zap# shows...then the walts would have really taken notice, given you your due props, and stopped screwing around with you in public.
 
I am not really seeing what the OP did that was overly wrong. He said he saw something he was suspect of and came on here to ask for clarification. And, I have to say, if someone in that dress asked me for my military ID...in the Market area of Ottawa, I wouldn't show it either. I think his question was, based on a fairly good description, 'Was that authorized dress?' and it would appear the answer is no.
Come on guys, we were all a little 'full of ourselves' when we first joined and I applaud a Pte for questioning this. I know many at the WO/PO1 rank who wouldn't even bat an eye because they don't want to get 'involved'.

As for the Dress Instruction, the image for mess dress shows undress ribbons and a name tag (Fig 6B 1-6 No.2B Mess Service). Maybe I will bring a copy of that to the Quarterly Mess Dinner here on the 10th!!

Pat
 
"...someone in that dress"?  Sounds like a case of folks wearing #2's.  What's questionable about that?  There is nothing that flags as way out of line.  Even the 'plaid' bow-tie isn't out there...I've seen several Army-DEU'd Loadmasters wear an RCAF tartan bow-tie with their green DEU...after all, they are technically in the RCAF as a Loadmaster, no matter their DEU from previous Traffic Tech life.

The major point of all of this is that the OP is rather un-informed about what is or is not permissible, yet takes great affront to these members...to the point where he accuses them of being "blatant fakes."

Frankly, I'd swing the shoe onto the other foot.  If I and some colleagues are on our way to a mess dinner attired IAW the CFP-265 (even if with some regimental interpretations of the regs) and some kid in civvies comes up to me, balls swinging (and ID-discs clinking), trying to play 'Dick Tracey' with who we are or what we are doing, I could see having a bit of fun with the guy...especially if he says he was in too, and so with any reasonable amount of experience, should know the deal.

The Sergent wearing the LOG flashes and collar dogs was insistent on discovering whether I was military or not; ....I told them I was not lied, to see what would happen.

Nice....not hypocritical at all, is that?  ::)

Cut the OP all the slack you want, Pat, but there's a whole lot of indignation that is not warranted, IMO.

:2c:

G2G
 
Lightguns said:
It is the duty of all members regardless of rank to correct poor military dress. It is done with respect for rank but yes a Pte can correct superior rank but he does so from a subordinate position.

I'd like to see the ref for that.  However, aside from Unit and RSM'isms...

CFP 265, Chapter 1:

9.  High standards of dress, deportment, and grooming are universally recognized as marks of a well-trained, disciplined and professional force.  Commanders shall maintain the standards at all times to reinforce these characteristics for peace or war.

10.  Officers cannot delegate their leadership responsibilities. They are assisted by warrant and non-commissioned officers (Sgt, MCpl and Cpl), who control standards and compliance by all their subordinates.

Additionally:

QR & O, Vol 1, Chap 5, Art 5.01

5.01- GENERAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS

A non-commissioned member shall:
a. become acquainted with, observe and enforce i. the National Defence Act,
ii.the Security of Information Act, (5 June 2008)
iii.QR&O, and
iv.all other regulations, rules, orders and instructions that pertain to the performance of the member's duties;

(See articles 1.12 - Regulations and Orders to be Available to Members and 4.26 - Circulation of Regulations, Orders, Instructions, Correspondence and Publications.)
b.afford to all persons employed in the public service such assistance in the performance of their duties as is practical;
c.promote the welfare, efficiency and good discipline of all who are subordinate to the member;
d.ensure the proper care and maintenance and prevent the waste of all public and non-public property within the member's control; and
e.report to the proper authority any infringement of the pertinent statutes, regulations, rules, orders and instructions governing the conduct of any person subject to the Code of Service Discipline.

That is what the book says, and that is the same book that could be used against a Pte who decided to take it upon themselves to 'sort out' a superior if they found themselves facing admin or disciplinary measures for their actions.
 
The OP is from 33 Sigs.  He was out partying on sat night.

The only real concern and question is why he wasn't on Ex Wolf Force in Petawawa?!?!  >:(

;D
 
wow you guys are vicious...but I too have seen ppl wear tartan bowties at mess dinners. And for OP, in your DEU #3 you do not wear your head dress.
 
I can't imagine as a private having the tenacity to question anyone of potential higher rank about their dress and deportment. The possibility to have my curiosity sated by extra duties or running around the parade square with a drill round over my head was far to high. 
 
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