Where should the monuments come home to?

[George Wallace]

The National Military Cemetery in Beechwood Cemetery is one of the numerous locations for Rememberance Day ceremonies.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Why is everyone against putting them in Ottawa?  I am sure more people will be able to visit them at the CWM or the CMC in Beechwood, than in any of the 'smaller venues' elsewhere. 

Seriously.  Who really goes to Trenton?  Not many.  (Although the Air Force Museum is a nice visit)

So the objective is to make it a tourist attraction?  Silly me, I thought it was a memorial.  If we want "asses in seats", lets put it in a downtown Montreal metro station.  Then you can pick up a souvenir spoon, get a hotdog or some candy floss, maybe a "I saw the Afghan war dead memorial" tee shirt.

 

[George Wallace]

Kat

Would it be better to put it at the end of the lane to your place, somewhere where fewer than ten people will know how to locate it without a Geocache program?

Why not around the graves of those who are memorialized on the monuments?  A place where the families would come and remember.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I get what your saying, but why must it be Ottawa?  Why do they get the corner on the memorial market?  Anyone who was a soldier through the late 70s, 80s and early 90s knows just how little that sucking black hole in the centre of the country gave a crap about us, and should be repulsed by the idea.  How many people would get to see it in Ottawa?  People from Ottawa, awfully nice for the rest of us.  I'm as likely to go to Trenton as I am Ottawa, more so, in fact.  Ottawa has no link to those particular dead, other than sending them there.  There is a real link to Trenton.

 

[vonGarvin]

George
If that runway needs extending, it would block a major North/South route at that end.  If we need longer runways (it's long enough for our Globemasters, and for Galaxies that have landed, and taken off successfully, from there), then they could always go the other way.

Now, without getting into a "why not Ottawa" debate, I would offer up instead "why Trenton".  As stated, that is the start point for the Highway of Heroes, and every one of our fallen, and their families, have passed through there.  This is where they were reunited with their loved ones, and as such, I feel that the honour to remember the fallen be in Trenton.

 

[George Wallace]

If it wasn't for the fact that we have in the last ten years or so set up the National Military Cemetery, sort of like Arlington in Washington, I wouldn't have any objections to where they would go and I wouldn't have suggested it.  If the memorials were Regimentally or Unit specifice, I would suggest they go to the Unit.  As they aren't, I am not really sure where they should go to find a "National" resting place.  The CWM or NMC seem to be the best candidates to fit the bill as a "National" location.  The location of the National Air Force Museum of Canada doesn't quite fill a "National" military criteria being focused on the Airforce, but would still be an acceptable location. 

In the end, it is a tough decision.  Should the memorials go to Ottawa, Trenton, Valcartier, Petawawa, Edmonton, Regina, St John's, Norman Wells, or where ever, is a debatable question that I am sure will not appease any majority from anywhere in the land.

I just don't want to see them land up in a storage box, in the back of some Hangar 16, in some unknown location.

 

[vonGarvin]

Here's how the thing could look, just an idea I came up with

There is ample parking just to the north of the drawing below, and people could park there if they wished to visit and pay tribute at the Monument.

The walking entrance is from the east, off of RCAF Road.

There is a circular path around the monument, to represent the completion of the circle of life, the reunion of the fallen with their loved ones.

There are 13 mature maples around the outside of the path, to represent each of Canada's provinces and territories.

On the inside of the path are individual markers, with brief remarks about the fallen.  Stuff like their home town, maybe some snippets of noteworthy things from their lives, whatever.  Each is individual, just as each of the fallen were.

The monument is simply the "one" we remember from Camp Mirage.


I think that Trenton is fitting for all the right reasons for this monument.  Though KAF was the start for their journey home, the former place for the monument, Camp Mirage, was also a transition point. 

Anyway, my $0.02

 

[Kirkhill]

I see what folks are saying about leaving the monuments in Afghanistan.

Stipulated: the monuments should come home.

Unfortunately Canada is a big country.  If the monuments are to be collocated then it will require a pilgrimage for much of the Canadian and Forces communities to see them.  And unless they are located at a base they won't be saluted on a daily basis by their friends as they pass by.

Kat, if they don't put them in Ottawa then its going to be a pilgrimage to Trenton, Gagetown, Petawawa, Valcartier or Edmonton. If they don't put them in the National War Museum then Newfoundlanders the served in Pet could find themselves having to come out to the Museum of the Regiments in Calgary to visit them.

There is no good place.  There is only a least worst place and for good or ill Ottawa is the Capital of the Nation, it is a military town, it has a garrison, it has the National Cemetery.


If the monuments are to come home then I think George has the right of it with the cemetery in Ottawa.


Could "copies" of the monuments - or at least echoes - be made and distributed to the major garrisons and Trenton, and perhaps, even, keep one in Kandahar?

 

[Old Sweat]

Let us not forget that each of these fallen Canadians had a home town, and that it is very probable that their names have already been added to the local war memorials. Certainly that is what has happened here in North Grenville, where the name of Private Blake Williamson of Charles Company was engraved on our war memorial along with the title "Afghanistan."

Ottawa is, I believe, the place for the national memorial, but I am torn between the War Museum and the National Military Cemetery.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Kirkhill,  it's a big country.  The fallen have come from across it.  It doesn't matter where you would put the memorial, folks will have to travel to see it. 

When I first saw this topic my initial reaction of locale was Trenton.  That is where they first touched down on home soil, where their family met them.  There is that connection for all concerned.  Screw Ottawa!  Ottawa has used us for pawns extensively at their leisure for their own ends. Look at what is happening now with all the different parties on the mission extension, makes me somewhat ill.  Personally speaking, if I was on that memorial I would not want it to end up in Ottawa.

 

[vonGarvin]

Ottawa is, I believe, the place for the national memorial, but I am torn between the War Museum and the National Military Cemetery.

I agree that a national memorial ought to be in the nation's capital.  As for the current monuments I don't feel that they suffice as a national memorial, but rather: where do we put these existing monuments that have to come home?

For the one that was in Mirage, I offer up Trenton as the logical choice for the reasons I stated above.

 

[The Bread Guy]

While I'd prefer small local monuments across Canada, the family dynamics may make it difficult to pick the best spot for each fallen.

If the original monument in question was at a transit base, it makes sense to me moving it to Trenton, another transit base of sorts for the fallen.

 

[George Wallace]

When I first saw this topic my initial reaction of locale was Trenton.  That is where they first touched down on home soil, where their family met them.  There is that connection for all concerned.  Screw Ottawa!  Ottawa has used us for pawns extensively at their leisure for their own ends. Look at what is happening now with all the different parties on the mission extension, makes me somewhat ill.  Personally speaking, if I was on that memorial I would not want it to end up in Ottawa.

???

What does the politics of our politicos have to do with it.  If you want to get that way then the whacked out politicians in BC negate any monument going there.  Same can be said for Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and many other provincial politicians.  Dan Williams has been such a meathead, do we want to send anything his way?  From coast to coast we have bumbling fumbling politicians.  I don't see what your point is.........or do you just equate the Nation's Capital as being the essence and prime focus of your political bias.  The Nations Capital isn't made up solely of the political hacks you so despise.

 

[HavokFour]

The Governing Parties of Canada have used us for pawns extensively at their leisure for their own ends. Look at what is happening now with all the different parties on the mission extension, makes me somewhat ill.  Personally speaking, if I was on that memorial I would not want it to end up on Parliament Hill.

Fixed that for you.

Regards,
An Ottawan

 

[jollyjacktar]

Fixed that for you.

Regards,
An Ottawan

Ta.  Havok, all PC'd now.  Nothing against the general run of the mill, Ottawan.  My apologies, a knee jerk reaction (and yes, George I was being a jerk too) as I equate in my mind's eye the Hill and all it entails when "Ottawa" comes to mind.

George, why should everything go to the Nation's Capital automatically?  There is plenty there already, National Cemetery, CWM, etc etc.  I stand by my agreement on Trenton.  That is where they came home to first and connects us all, fallen, family's, comrades, Canadians.

 

[George Wallace]

How about CFB Kingston, at RMC or out front of the Div HQ?

One location would be influencing the minds of new young O/Cdts.  The other would be in the minds of the planners of other expeditions.

 

[mover1]

So, by your logic, the cenotaphs bearing the names of our fallen should be eliminated, and only put the names of those who came home on them?
We should NEVER forget our losses, ever.  But as I was just saying, I was referring to that stretch of road how it is known colloquially.

Anyway, I was thinking of this green space here

Dude ya lost me on the first part. :-\

All I was saying was please don't refer to Highway 2 as Repatriation Row that name is something that was started by a small group of individuals. (I am thinking the CAV) and its not garnering a lot of public support.  We here in Trenton call it Highway 2 no one really calls it Repat Row.

 

[NavyShooter]

I think Trenton, rather than Ottawa.  While the CWM is nice, it's a civilian organization, and I think this should be kept in the "family." 

Brookwood was a peaceful spot when I last visited, but it is a spot that's both privately controlled and wide open to the public....some folks may not have the best intentions.  The day I visited, I spoke with the staff at Brookwood about one of the Contractors who was working on-site, and while working, did something that was, well, thoughtless disregard rather than willful damage.  The staff promised to have a word with the man about it.  I'd be concerned that if the monument was in a solely public location like Brookwood, there may be greater opportunity for harm to come to it, either through disregard, or willful damage.

Both CWM and Brookwood, while "appropriate" are not under the eyes of the CF, and I'm thinking that's important.

I also wonder about the timing of the intended return.

Is it going to be shipped home when the Camp is closed?  Or is it going to move to the new base-camp (presuming that there will be a new one, especially with the discussed "extension" of the mission.)

If it does come home is it at the end of the "Combat" phase? 

Suppose we end up having troops over there like we did in Cyprus?  When is the right time to bring it home?

As a sailor, I'm a relative outsider looking in at this, but those questions occurred to me as I perused this thread. 

I fear that whomever may take over the current site after we leave will not be as understanding as the German army in WWII when they took France and left the Vimy (and other) monuments to the fallen untouched and undamaged.

I think Trenton is an appropriate place for it to move to, and yes, in a relatively accessible but secured location, perhaps the base museum.

If I'm out of my lane with these questions and thoughts, feel free to steer me back, it's just my thoughts and ramblings.

NS

 

[Kiwi99]

Why not put it in jack Laytons or Iggys front yard, so everyday when they walk outside they can see the names of real Canadians, citizens with a set of plums etc.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Why not put it in jack Laytons or Iggys front yard, so everyday when they walk outside they can see the names of real Canadians, citizens with a set of plums etc.

:cheers: