Why Acting Sub-Lieutenant, and Where are the Midshipmen & Ensigns (Merged thread)

[casing]

Why is this rank known as Acting Sub-Lieutenant as opposed to Ensign?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Because we followed the Royal Navy in ranking structure up until Unification. There was never the rank of Ensign in the Canadian Navy or the Royal Canadian Navy.

 

[casing]

I thought the Royal Navy used to have an Ensign rank. That must have been a very long time ago, I guess.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think you were thinking of Midshipman

http://www.intellectualloafing.com/noframes/activitiesfolder/beinformedfolder/britishmilitaryranks.htm

 

[big_castor]

Ensign was first an Army rank (it was called Cornet in the cavalry). The Ensign was the junior officer who carried the unit colours and they took their name from the flag they carried.

In french, we use Enseigne de vaisseau for Acting Sub-Lieutenant and Sub-Lieutenant.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Ensign is still the official title for the appointment, or at least it is used by our regiment. As pointed out, the two ensigns (I believe the "correct" terms are Senior Colour Ensign and Junior Colour Ensign) carry the Colours on parade. The Senior Ensign carries the Sovereign‘s Colour and the Junior carries the Regimental Colour.

Armoured Regiments have Guidons; perhaps one of the black hatters can tell us if they also have an ensign for the guidon?

The term also refers to a flag, especially as flown on a ship - ie The Red Ensign, the White Ensign, etc. The Red Ensign was the national flag of Canada in the first part of the 20th Century though I don‘t think it was officially recognized as such until after 1944.

There is still reference to "naval ensigns", these refer to, I believe, national recognition flags as flown on naval vessels.

 

[xFusilier]

ARmoured Regiments do not have an ensign (implying an officer) as in the Cavalry and Armoured Corps the Guidon is placed in the care of the WO‘s and Sgt‘s of the Regiment. For example IIRC (its been over 10 years) the KOCR kept their guidon in the RSM‘s office. Whereas IIRC the Calgary Highlanders kept the Colours in the CO‘s office. I know they weren‘t kept in the officers mess as I remember Mr. Griffiths showing us an obscure plaque in the Officers Mess that explained the whole thing but as I say it was about 12 years ago.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

In the Armoured Corps the Guidon is carried on parade by a MWO, escorted by two WO‘s normally armed with swords. The Guidon party also has a Sgt responsible for uncasing and casing the Guidon.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You are both, of course, correct, thanks. And I don‘t suppose I can tell you where the Colours are kept now without having to kill you afterwards, yes?



The Guidon also gets mounted on a Jeep for roll pasts with the KOCR; for the Queen‘s Parade in 1990 it was done that way at any rate. Not an Iltis, but an honest-to-God Jeep with, IIRC, velvet seats and a chromed handrail that General Patton would have been proud of.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Michael,

I‘ve seen the Guidon kept in various locations, including the Officer‘s Mess.
When a parade is mounted, so is the Guidon Party. It can be done in a variety of vehicles.

OK, kill me now.

 

[xFusilier]

I remember watching the Queens parade in McMahon Stadium in 1990. Complete w/Sikh colour ensign and the CDS on parade as a piper. As for the colours comment, well I sometime have that tendency, people ask me what time it is and I tell them how to build a watch

 

[Coyote43D]

The Guidon is carried by the senior armoured MWO in the regiment(usually the TQMS). The LdSH(RC) Guidon is kept in a glass case by the duty centre.

 

[AlphaCharlie]

Ensign is a rank on Star Trek.....

 

[D-n-A]

Ensign is a rank on Star Trek.....

sometimes it better to not say anything

now we know your a star trek fan 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ensign is a rank on Star Trek.....

Ensign is also a junior officer rank in the US Navy....

 

[casing]

Ensign is a rank on Star Trek.....

Ensign is also a junior officer rank in the US Navy....

And Ensign in the US Navy is equivalent to Canada's Acting Sub-Lieutenant.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ensign is a rank on Star Trek.....

Ensign is also a junior officer rank in the US Navy....

And Ensign in the US Navy is equivalent to Canada's Acting Sub-Lieutenant.

Exactly.....

 

[navymich]

How about going back to having a midshipman:

A midshipman originally was, as the name suggests, one who lived amidships, this is mid-way between the officers who lived aft and the men who lived forward. While training as an officer he worked with the men somewhat like our own cadets. In the U.S. Navy this original status is more closely maintained, the U.S.N. midshipman ranking with the R.C.N. cadet. The midshipman used to serve seven years on the lower deck and was roughly equivalent to our present day petty officer in rank and position.

The midshipman's white patch, as an insignia of rank, came into use in 1758. It has been suggested that the patch is all that remains of what used to be a white coat collar which went out of use because the 'Young Gentlemen' used to dirty it too quickly. No support can be found for this doubtful theory. The significance of white, however, is of great antiquity; to it our word candidate is related. Candidus, Latin adjective for white, referred to the pure colour of the togas worn by those aspiring to high office in the Roman government. The same purity motif is seen with a bride's wedding dress. The midshipman's white patch and the officer candidate's white cap ribbon probably stem from this Roman origin.

 

[NavalGent]

I think Acting Sub-Lieutenant is a cool sounding rank. It makes sense... he or she is not quite a Sub-Lieutenant. More seriously though, it does have a historical basis and is not exclusively used by, nor created by, the CF. And instead of going back to Midshipman, we should rename the rank of Naval Cadet to be Almost-Acting-Sub-Lieutenant. ;D

 

[navymich]

...we should rename the rank of Naval Cadet to be Almost-Acting-Sub-Lieutenant. ;D

AA/SLt....how appropriate.  I've taught many Naval Cadidiots that have led me to drink... ;D