Why have CANEX? (Split fm "Up to 1500 military housing units ...")

[Steve_D]

And during my time in Goose Bay early 90s, the CANEX was pretty much it. I don't know what we would have done without it.

 

[Pusser]

Is extending easy credit to young military members without financial experience or acumen in the best interests of the individuals or the institution?

Canex can give it to them at reasonable rates, or they can go down the road to the nearest finance company or pay-day loan shark and pay outrageous rates.  One way or the other, they're going to get the items they want/need.  Rationally, yes, people should not buy things they cannot afford, but such decisions are not always rational (nor is marriage for that matter).  The Canex plan actually helps to make things more affordable for folks, especially the ones with lower incomes.  Think of the young private with a young spouse and a young child.  Should they have to continue with regular trips to the laundromat when we have the means to alleviate that stress on their lives?  I've never had to deal with a young service member who had financial difficulties as a result of buying things on Canex's no-interest plan, but plenty who've gone to finance companies.

Other "no money-down, no payment for one year, etc" plans are far worse.  At least with the Canex plan, payments start right away (so the member doesn't have a chance to forget about it)  and since they come directly off your pay, there is no chance of missing one.  The other plans actually love it if the customer forgets because when they do start collecting, the interest charges are horrendous.  There have been cases where some businesses have made all of their profit with only a handful of payments and then repossessed the goods to sell them again!

"Morale is just as important to operations as are rations and ammunition; and just as legitimate an expense on the public treasury."  I wish I could remember who said that, but I believe it was a US Secretary of War in the early 20 Century.

 

[vincent.escanlar]

CANEX is such a terrible idea. That's why the Brits, Dutch, and US all have something similar. In fact, you can buy below market costs at US PX/NX.

US Exchanges/Commissaries seem to be a great part of the overall compensation package of being in the military (and all with just your standard-issue military/dependent ID card - no separate "CF1" card required!).

Commissaries still sell products at cost as they have since 1825. Today’s customers also pay a 5-percent surcharge, mandated by Congress. The surcharge pays for new stores, as well as renovations of existing facilities. Patrons thus help pay for their commissaries twice - once as taxpayers and once through the surcharge. Commissary employees’ salaries are tax funded.

Commissary patrons save an average of more than 30 percent on their grocery bills. That level of savings, verified by the agency’s Price Comparison Study, amounts to approximately $4,500 per year for a family of four that regularly shops in a commissary. Customers receive substantial additional savings through special sales and coupons.

Surveys consistently rate the commissaries as one of the military’s top nonpay benefits. Many young service families, particularly those stationed in high cost-of-living urban areas, simply could not make ends meet without the price savings provided by the commissaries. Those savings amount to about double the appropriated cost of running the system. In other words, preserving this level of compensation in direct dollar payments to military personnel would cost the government twice the current fund appropriation.

https://www.commissaries.com/press_room/press_release/2012/DeCA_13_12.cfm

 

[Jarnhamar]

Somewhat off topic; I never got an answer to who was responsible when the Canex in Wainwright all of a sudden doubled the price of energy drinks when visiting troops started buying them up.

 

[TCM621]

The gist of the anti-canex argument seems to be that the money would be better spent on ships or tanks etc. Correct me if I am wrong but Canex is a NPF entity. By virtue of being non-public funds, it wouldn't be funds available to military expenditures.

As for free rent,  if there is one thing the CAF has it's a lot of it is space. We could give them Walmart size plots of land on most bases with out actually interfering with much.

As someone who has spent multiple combined years on TD or restricted posting without a car, I can tell you not having a CANEX would have made my life very difficult. An on base store with basic necessitates is a must for those people.

 

[Loachman]

(GERMANY STORY)  The CANEX in Lahr and Baden were very professionally run, with Buyers travelling around Europe purchasing products for the stores.  They held regular promotional displays/events with Reps and merchandise from major manufacturers; Sony, Panasonic, Bose, Siemens, Phillips, etc.  The CFE CANEX made profits that kept all the CANEX in Canada in business.  The profits CANEX made in CFE were more than all the CANEX outlets in Canada combined.  My question is:  What happened to all those people who made the CFE CANEX such a success? 

Anyone who has shopped at the CANEX in CFE will think that CANEX here is a joke; a shadow of its former self.

There was a spoof, but not completely inaccurate, CFE (Canadian Forces Europe) org chart with a spaghetti-like tangle of lines connecting units. The Canex and Vandoo Mafia were the two at the top, from which all lines emanated.

 

[Happy Guy]

The gist of the anti-canex argument seems to be that the money would be better spent on ships or tanks etc. Correct me if I am wrong but Canex is a NPF entity. By virtue of being non-public funds, it wouldn't be funds available to military expenditures.

As for free rent,  if there is one thing the CAF has it's a lot of it is space. We could give them Walmart size plots of land on most bases with out actually interfering with much.

As someone who has spent multiple combined years on TD or restricted posting without a car, I can tell you not having a CANEX would have made my life very difficult. An on base store with basic necessitates is a must for those people.

I to have spent multiple times on crse (Gagetown and Borden) without a car (we are a one car family) and having a CANEX on base made my life easier.

 

[c_canuk]

I got a surprise posting message in the middle of renovations july 2014, because of the depressed market and that all my reno's were upgrades to the house, I took a bath on the sale of my home. On paper it looks like I broke even.

Got posted to a place with a much higher cost of living, Ottawa.

Our place that we managed to purchase came with appliances. Then we had to get my Son lots of expensive tests, our car got totalled, and my wife's orthodontics went over the capped amount.

So I will state I'm quite happy Canex exists here in Ottawa where I can replace the fridge that just died for a small monthly sum at 0% interest.

I'm happy that I was able to use price matching so it was the cheapest I could find anywhere before you even include the 0% financing.

I'm also happy that some of the money I'm paying for the new fridge is used to fund various support agencies of the CAF.

 

[Pusser]

US Exchanges/Commissaries seem to be a great part of the overall compensation package of being in the military (and all with just your standard-issue military/dependent ID card - no separate "CF1" card required!).
https://www.commissaries.com/press_room/press_release/2012/DeCA_13_12.cfm

Yes, US Exchanges and especially their commissaries are most definitely part of their pay and compensation packages (which is often why our use of them is restricted).  They often sell at wholesale or even below wholesale prices (especially in the commissaries).  Ours are not part of our compensation package and Canex is required to mark up goods in order to at least cover their costs and hopefully generate a reasonable profit to pass onto PSP programs.  However, because Canex has minimal overhead (e.g. buildings provided at public expense as per the NDA under the guise of "public support to NPF"), it is able to keep prices competitive with local markets.

Ii don't really understand the vitriol lately surrounding the CF1 Card.  Do folks not realize that the idea was to make things easier overall?  We don't have "dependants cards" (notwithstanding that the MFRC network had some, but not universal success in creating one) and not all veterans were issued with the ND 75.  However, all veterans, serving members and eligible dependants can get a CF1 card.  There may be some teething pains, but before too long, all services (including business who are participating in the CF Appreciation Program) will accept it as proof of eligibility.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I believe the vitriol, is that the card solution seems to be cheesy when set aside the ND 75 for comparison.  Perpaps you could add the distain some hold for the CANEX as well into the ire that is displayed.

 

[Pusser]

I believe the vitriol, is that the card solution seems to be cheesy when set aside the ND 75 for comparison.  Perpaps you could add the distain some hold for the CANEX as well into the ire that is displayed.

I'm not sure the ND75 was ever designed for the same purpose.  It just happened to be a handy card that was available and adaptable to the various discount programs that are starting to appear.  Keep in mind that it was a tad discriminatory in that it was only issued to former members with at least 10 years service.  Everybody else was out in the cold.  Everybody gets a CF1 and although it denotes which type of patron one is (i.e. member, veteran, dependant) it's still basically the same card and thus easily recognizable to everyone.  As I said before, I think there will be some teething pains, but overall, this is an improvement.

As for those who disdain Canex, that's their problem.  It's not exclusively a Canex instrument.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Of course the ND 75 wasn't designed to get you discounts.  It was designed to identify you as a former member of the CAF.  I think one thing that is sticking in the craw of some is that unlike the ND 75, the CF1 doesn't have a photo of the bearer to confirm, "yes, that is you".  Anyone could wave a CF1 around and say "yup, that's me".

 

[TCM621]

Of course the ND 75 wasn't designed to get you discounts.  It was designed to identify you as a former member of the CAF.  I think one thing that is sticking in the craw of some is that unlike the ND 75, the CF1 doesn't have a photo of the bearer to confirm, "yes, that is you".  Anyone could wave a CF1 around and say "yup, that's me".

That is a potential issue and one that may need addressing in the future. Those that have an issue with it would be well advised to bring it up with the relevant parties.

 

[George Wallace]

Of course the ND 75 wasn't designed to get you discounts.  It was designed to identify you as a former member of the CAF.  I think one thing that is sticking in the craw of some is that unlike the ND 75, the CF1 doesn't have a photo of the bearer to confirm, "yes, that is you".  Anyone could wave a CF1 around and say "yup, that's me".

The lack of a photo is why the CFOne card is not being accepted for many CAF/Veteran discounts.

Although the NDI 75, for that fact the NDI 20 and other NDI cards, was not designed to get you discounts, it did prove that you were whom you claimed to be, as a Veteran.  Discounts did not even exist a decade or so ago, so that point is really moot.  All the NDI cards have been accepted as photo ID, like a Dvr Lic or Health Card with a photo have been used to ID you upon request in most places, although  I have witnessed the NDI 20 not be accepted as a legitimate ID as proof of whom you are at certain locations. So there will be numerous differences in the rules used by different organizations, businesses and occupations as to what is acceptable "proof" of whom you are.

Long before CANEX came out with their proprietary card, many Bases issued Dependent IDs through their IDent Sections to give non-military family members access to CANEX and other Base facilities.  Either CANEX has to rethink this card and create a card with the holders photo, or we rely on VAC to create a photo ID card for Veterans.  Until then, we will likely see numerous complaints on the failures of this card.

 

[Pusser]

The lack of a photo is why the CFOne card is not being accepted for many CAF/Veteran discounts.

Is there proof of this or is it just speculation?  All of the participants in the CF Appreciation Program (i.e. the ones giving the CAF/Veteran discounts) should be aware of and accepting the CF 1 Card.  Keep in mind that most credit cards don't have pictures either, so this shouldn't be a huge issue ("we'll accept this card without your picture for payment of $1000, but we can't offer a discount because this other card - with the same name on it - doesn't have your picture...").

 

[George Wallace]

Is there proof of this or is it just speculation?  All of the participants in the CF Appreciation Program (i.e. the ones giving the CAF/Veteran discounts) should be aware of and accepting the CF 1 Card.  Keep in mind that most credit cards don't have pictures either, so this shouldn't be a huge issue ("we'll accept this card without your picture for payment of $1000, but we can't offer a discount because this other card - with the same name on it - doesn't have your picture...").

I have heard from members in PEI and NS who have experienced the CFOne card not being accepted as proof towards a CAF/Veteran discount. 

Do not add a "Credit Card" to the argument.  It is not, and never has been, a form of identification.  They have quite often been the subject to identity theft.

 

[Pusser]

I have heard from members in PEI and NS who have experienced the CFOne card not being accepted as proof towards a CAF/Veteran discount. 

Do not add a "Credit Card" to the argument.  It is not, and never has been, a form of identification.  They have quite often been the subject to identity theft.

I suspect (and hope) that after the program matures, these problems will go away.  Time will tell.

 

[newwifey]

I have heard from members in PEI and NS who have experienced the CFOne card not being accepted as proof towards a CAF/Veteran discount. 

Do not add a "Credit Card" to the argument.  It is not, and never has been, a form of identification.  They have quite often been the subject to identity theft.

Those people should be bringing those observations to the Program.  My guess would be those particular companies aren't in the CFAppreciation itself so wouldn't be aware what the cards are for?? 

 

[vincent.escanlar]

Yes, US Exchanges and especially their commissaries are most definitely part of their pay and compensation packages (which is often why our use of them is restricted).  They often sell at wholesale or even below wholesale prices (especially in the commissaries).  Ours are not part of our compensation package and Canex is required to mark up goods in order to at least cover their costs and hopefully generate a reasonable profit to pass onto PSP programs.  However, because Canex has minimal overhead (e.g. buildings provided at public expense as per the NDA under the guise of "public support to NPF"), it is able to keep prices competitive with local markets.

Thanks for the explanation, I see the difference. Yes, sometimes the US Exchanges/Commissaries see my CAC card that says "Foreign Navy" and check to see that Exchange/Commissary privileges are authorised.

Ii don't really understand the vitriol lately surrounding the CF1 Card.  Do folks not realize that the idea was to make things easier overall?  We don't have "dependants cards" (notwithstanding that the MFRC network had some, but not universal success in creating one) and not all veterans were issued with the ND 75.  However, all veterans, serving members and eligible dependants can get a CF1 card.  There may be some teething pains, but before too long, all services (including business who are participating in the CF Appreciation Program) will accept it as proof of eligibility.

Yes, it might take a while for the word to get out. For example, here's a ski resort where the CF1 card is only eligible for a discount with a NDI20 or NDI75: http://skiwhitefish.com/assets/wmr_1516_armed_forces_card_explained.pdf. So only those who are currently in, or retired with 10 years service (which seems to be their intention) can prove entitlement - but as the NDI75 is no longer issued, new retirees despite 10 years service will be out.

 

[Gunner98]

And during my time in Goose Bay early 90s, the CANEX was pretty much it. I don't know what we would have done without it.

Other than a seasonal food truck selling burgers, fries, and deep-fried ice cream there was nothing but Canex in Cornwallis to support the recruits.