11 soldiers injured as tank cannon fires on N.B. base

[PMedMoe]

Reproduced with the usual caveats.

Article Link

Military police are investigating what caused the main gun on a Leopard tank to unexpectedly fire a blank round, injuring 11 people at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown in New Brunswick.

Base spokeswoman Stephanie Duchesne says the incident happened during the last week of May when the tank was inside a shelter for repairs.

Ms. Duchesne says there was “a negligent discharge” of a blank round, meaning it happened either accidentally or because of human or mechanical error.

She says 10 soldiers and a civilian who were inside the shelter were treated for minor, hearing-related injuries before returning to their duties.

Ms. Duchesne says she believes the soldiers, who were taking part in a training exercise on the base, were all members of 12 RBC Valcartier in Quebec.

She could not say whether it is common practice for a tank's guns to be loaded while undergoing repairs.

 

[tomahawk6]

 

[McD]

Whoa this certainly got my heart to stop- Glad they are alright. whew.

 

[gunnars]

Gulp.. gotta get ahold of some friends now.

 

[tomahawk6]

If they are shouting at you during your call you will know why. ;D

 

[ShortBus]

This is a bit bigger then an "oopsie", wouldn't you say. Glad everyone is okay after that.

 

[DexOlesa]

I assume there is not supposed to be a blank in the chamber when its parked in the hangar.

 

[George Wallace]

I assume there is not supposed to be a blank in the chamber when its parked in the hangar.

That is quite the understatement.  Some Crew Comd is going to be in deep Ka Ka.

 

[DexOlesa]

Well I figured as I would never leave even an air rifle with a round chambered. Small consolation is that it was a blank. Could have been so much worse. Glad they are (relatively) ok, a bit rattled, but ok.

 

[jollyjacktar]

My first time in KAF there was more than one occasion we came across the main gun loaded with HE rounds on the LAV we werere working on.  Co-ax was hot, personal weapons also loaded and other stuff too.  We were not too happy about it and it was not isolated to one or two times.  The first time was a surprise and caught us off guard, we checked each one carefully after that.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Reproduced with the usual caveats.

Article Link

Military police are investigating what caused the main gun on a Leopard tank to unexpectedly fire a blank round, injuring 11 people at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown in New Brunswick.

Base spokeswoman Stephanie Duchesne says the incident happened during the last week of May when the tank was inside a shelter for repairs.

Ms. Duchesne says there was “a negligent discharge” of a blank round, meaning it happened either accidentally or because of human or mechanical error.

She says 10 soldiers and a civilian who were inside the shelter were treated for minor, hearing-related injuries before returning to their duties.

Ms. Duchesne says she believes the soldiers, who were taking part in a training exercise on the base, were all members of 12 RBC Valcartier in Quebec.

She could not say whether it is common practice for a tank's guns to be loaded while undergoing repairs.

Sounds to me like it happened at WTP.......

 

[vonGarvin]

Sounds to me like it happened at WTP.......

I think it was at the pickle, yes.

 

[Tank Troll]

That is quite the understatement.  Some Crew Comd is going to be in deep Ka Ka.

:nod:

I remember a couple of miss fires on the tanks with blank rounds. Usually involving the RBJ shorting out and sending a electrical charge through the turret. ( the rounds are fired electrically as apposed to by percussion). The gun should have been unloaded before entering  WTP let alone the pickle.

 

[Michael OLeary]

:nod:

I remember a couple of miss fires on the tanks with blank rounds. Usually involving the RBJ shorting out and sending a electrical charge through the turret. ( the rounds are fired electrically as apposed to by percussion). The gun should have been unloaded before entering  WTP let alone the pickle.

There is the possibility that getting that round out was the problem they had returned to WTP to have fixed.

 

[Old Sweat]

If, and it's a very big if, the tank had returned to have the blank extracted, why would there have been 11 soldiers (or 10 and one) in the pickle? Perhaps four members of the crew and a tech or two, but not 11. At least, my take is that the area might have been cleared off all concerned, less a tech or two and perhaps a member of the crew.

Guess we will have to wait for the investigation.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Guess we will have to wait for the investigation.

Sage words for anyone that would be inclined to speculate.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[George Wallace]

:nod:

I remember a couple of miss fires on the tanks with blank rounds. Usually involving the RBJ shorting out and sending a electrical charge through the turret. ( the rounds are fired electrically as apposed to by percussion). The gun should have been unloaded before entering  WTP let alone the pickle.

I too have had this experience; once when entering a hasty Leaguer.  It was called and in a location approx 100 m to my rear.  I was still loaded, and had my gun at max elevation, when I was entering the Leaguer.  My approach took me over a four to five foot drop off and when the ass end of my tank came down in a jolt, the round went off.  Neither my Gunner, nor I, had our hands on a Controller.  As I see it, when the tank slammed down with the gun at max elevation, it was enough for the Firing Pin to contact the primer.  The Primer is also percussion fired, as these Blanks can also be used (to the best of my knowledge) in the Arty 105s.

 

[ammocat]

The 105mm Tank Blank and 105mm Howitzer Blank are not interchangeable. The 105mm Tank Blank is made from a cut down cartridge case, which has a long taper to it. So the head of the cartridge case is much too large to fit into the breech of a howitzer.

Current 105mm tank ammunition cannot be fired by percussion, there is no anvil or cap in the primer to allow the priming composition to be crushed and initiated when the firing pin strikes the primer. The electric primer requires and electrical current to heat up and initiate the priming composition. In the past there were combination electric/percussion primers, but I am not sure if these were ever used in the 105mm tank ammunition in the CF.

 

[OldSolduer]

She could not say whether it is common practice for a tank's guns to be loaded while undergoing repairs.

Uhmmmm, not being a tanker......But I'd say probably not.....

 

[dogger1936]

There is the possibility that getting that round out was the problem they had returned to WTP to have fixed.

Removing the round is a crewmans job. Thats why the loader has a claw. Next step is to find an advanced gunner to give you a nod to push the roud out with 105 staves. Not a tech job. While in FOB's SP's etc we left a round in the bin 24/7. As soon as it goes to maintance "clear weapons is performed".

Few possiabilities. Someone hit the big red button.And the gunner had the switch left "emerg down" after paying lip service to his drills. Something shorted out in the firing circuit.

Either way before any maintance is done on a MBT the crews unload clear weapons.


This is a perfect example of corporate knowledge lost during that dark era where we "dont need tanks". Now we have warrant officers who have ZERO tank experience through out their career mentoring young Mcpls who never seen a tank before who is in charge of kids. The knowledge base at the NCM rank is gone.

There was a time where a C/C could tell the crew to take it to maintance and expect the very senior loader to make sure it was done right. There was a time where the crews were competent.

While the LDSH may have a slight edge on experience (scarcasim) the other two regiments have had a lack of tank time for many years now. Hence total **** ups like this.

I took pride in being a tanker and great pride in killing many taliban with that weapon system. However competent tankers are few and far between hence why the infantry on my tour only wanted to work with our troop. The others lacked experience on the vehicles and a lack of infantry cooperation to boot.