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2004 Military Grievance Board Report - Interesting Discussion Points

Gunner98

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http://www.cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/annual_report_2004-e.php
Decisions on CTA, IVF, haircuts, PLD etc. 

There has an urban legend over the last 5 years or so that we would soon be able to have men in uniform with haircuts like the Dutch - not so - don't just get an estimate - get a haircut, soldier.

"Dress Code Policies â “ Short Hair â “ Exemptions â “ Discrimination
Early in 2000, the CF adopted a policy on Aboriginal hair dress by way of the Canadian Forces General Message (CANFORGEN) 126/98. The policy allowed Aboriginal CF members to wear long hair and braids if they so requested in writing and if they were in fact part of the Aboriginal community. Permission would be subject to operational and safety requirements. Later in 2000, the CF incorporate this policy into a new dress code that also permitted other religious and cultural groups, such as members of the Sikh community, to wear long hair.

The grievor complained that this policy was discriminatory, as he could not also wear his hair long. In particular, he pointed to the statement in CANFORGEN 126/98 about uniforms and the need to eliminate differences between members of the CF, to highlight the anomaly of allowing certain members to wear longer hair than others.

The Board found that the CF respected the grievor's right to equality. Canadian jurisprudence differed from American jurisprudence on equality: Canadian law prescribed substantive equality, whereas American law adopted formal equality. As such, Canadian law did not dictate that all groups be treated identically. In particular, the Board noted the 1995 Federal Court of Canada case of Grant v. Canada that found the RCMP respected the equality provision, despite its adoption of a policy permitting Sikh members to wear a turban while wearing the RCMP uniform. The Board also highlighted the recent Supreme Court case of Anselem to substantiate its finding that freedom of religion mandated, at times, that members of religious groups be allowed to display their religious symbols.

The Board found that the real issue in this grievance was not the isolated issue of being able to wear long hair but that of religious freedom. In this particular grievance, there was no evidence that the grievor ever requested accommodation for his own religious beliefs. If CF members who are of the Sikh faith or Aboriginal requested to wear their hair long, the dress policy was lawful in allowing them to do so. The Board recommended that the CDS deny the grievance. The CDS concurred."






 
Why are women permitted braids that hang below the collar?

Acorn
 
Why is it essential for Natives to wear their hair long?   I am unaware of any cultural or religious practices (which do exist in the Sikh religion) which insist that they wear it long - so are we doing this to make them "feel better"?

We should all be wearing it high and tight in my opinion - so take that you hippies....
 
Is women allowed to wear their hair past their collars permissible in the dress regs or lack of enforcement on their superiors part?
 
Yes it is in the dress regs.  Only when braided though.  The braid can hang to the top of the armpit.  If the hair is loose, it can't hang below the bottom of the collar.  (unless the person has a chit to grow it out - if I recall you can get 60 days to grow it long enough to put up)
 
It used to be that it couldn't hang below the top of the collar but that seems to have changed during my "civvy period" at some point.   I'm really not crazy about this braid thing, looks really bad and quite unprofessional in my opinion.   Guy's hair also seems to have slacked off or probably lack of enforcement.   CFL, yes it is lack of enforcement regarding the bottom of the collar issue except in regards to what beach bum pointed out. 
 
Infanteer said:
We should all be wearing it high and tight in my opinion - so take that you hippies....

Couldnt of put it better myself. Just like off King of The Hill last night. " I would go see my congressman in person, but no self respecting bus company would let me on with hair like this"
 
It is not an urban legend, the courts have among a large group of issues advised the military to get with the changes before a court challeng stricks down the whole thing. Amoung those original issues was the sunglass rule the umbrela rule the earing rule and yes womwan wearing it longer. I never did understand what the hair thing was all about. Long hair was the mark of a soldier and sailor (sorry no airmen back then) It has only been in the past 100 years that hair is an issue. I alwasy wondered why RSMs would spout off about tradition but fail on the most traditional look of a soldier. 3000 years of soldiers in battle cant be erased by a 100 years of nit pickers who have never fired thier weapons in anger. Yes a broad brush but im will to bet that no serving RSM or any of the ones I ever knew ever fired a weapon in anger.
Hair, what a small issue in the big picture.
 
Look at pics of CF members back in the 60s and 70s. They had hair that would get them charged nowadays. The sideburns were twice the length that they are allowed to be now...
 
I hate to tell you this but hair has been an issue for hundreds of years. It just used to be powdered and pulled back so tight you could barely blink. Its not a small issue, its called the maintenance of good order and discipline.  Where do you draw the line in stopping the enforcement of discipline? Besides if you look like a soldier you might even feel like one. Its also called pride in onesself and service. I know I don't want someone who constantly needs to be told to get a haircut around.
 
Remember troops, all CF members are equal. Some are just *more equal* than others.

And I agree with Inf. Shave that hair, you pot smoking hippies.
 
Infanteer said:
Why is it essential for Natives to wear their hair long?  I am unaware of any cultural or religious practices (which do exist in the Sikh religion) which insist that they wear it long - so are we doing this to make them "feel better"?

We should all be wearing it high and tight in my opinion - so take that you hippies....

I know this is a month old but some don't cut their hair because of Pow-wows (and other things), which for some have great cultural significance and for others religious significance. And then there are the ones who don't cut their hair because thats a white mans thing... but thats a totally different topic.
 
Okay guys, this is an old topic, do a search on it.

As for women having to cut their hair, I'll tell you guys what I said to the last group from the previous thread -- I have a hard enough time getting a date because of my job and people questioning my "orientation."  Just imagine how hard it would be if I were to shave my head.  IOW, the reason women aren't required to have a brush cut is because of "Social Norms."

As for the braids, in my case I will still have my hair in a bun if I am in DEUs but in a loose braid if in my flight-suit because of the danger of FOD (from hair pins) around the aircraft AND not wanting to tear out a bun everytime I put my helmet on to go flying.
 
Strike said:
IOW, the reason women aren't required to have a brush cut is because of "Social Norms."

This is the military, not society - the social norm is high and tight.  Take it in close....  ;)

 
Right, military, not society, which is why we are still split male/female on deployments wrt quarters, why we all eat with a knife and fork, and, well, the list goes on.  So, society affects everything we do whether you like it or not.

BTW, hate to break it to you, but G.I. Jane is a fictional character, so saying we should all have hair like her is like me saying every guy should have a body like "Maverick" as displayed during the volleyball scene in "Top Gun."  (Unfortunately I cannot at the present time find a pic of such.)  I can dream, but I know it's not going to happen.
 
last time I checked the chicks in the platoon didn't get their own 10 man tent.  Accommodations is convenience only. 
 
last time I checked the chicks in the platoon didn't get their own 10 man tent.  Accommodations is convenience only. 

we are still split male/female on deployments wrt quarters

So you're saying that you guys break every camp rule ever made and mix the sexes on deployment?  An exercise is one thing, but 6 months in another country is another.
 
Strike said:
BTW, hate to break it to you, but G.I. Jane is a fictional character, so saying we should all have hair like her is like me saying every guy should have a body like "Maverick" as displayed during the volleyball scene in "Top Gun."   (Unfortunately I cannot at the present time find a pic of such.)   I can dream, but I know it's not going to happen.


Geez, didn't you see the Winky  (;)) - chill out, I'm pulling your leg....
 
As long as I've been in, hair is always high & tight.

Signalsguy, I can judge from your profile, you weren't around in the 60's & 70's.  I don't remember seeing hair any where near the collar let alone hippie length.  Most of us opted for the jar head look.  If the RSM didn't like it, you were on orders parade to a pig shave.

And if you think that some of the RSM's are tough now, you wouldn't be able to deal with a WWII or Korean vintage RSM that was so PO'd that they broke their pace stick either on you or the parade square.

Cheers
 
And if you think that some of the RSM's are tough now, you wouldn't be able to deal with a WWII or Korean vintage RSM that was so PO'd that they broke their pace stick either on you or the parade square.

And people pine away for the "good old days"...
 
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