A Deeply Fractured US

[dimsum]

You d

I've realized that I'm disqualified from being POTUS or VP:

• Not a native born American
• Never shot my dog
• Don't have brain worms
• Never paid a porn star for sex

You Don’t have brain worms yet

 

[Brad Sallows]

Are you directing this at dimsum and dapaterson, or at QV who's the original one to imply a conspiracy?

Anyone who misuses the word. Nothing stops the first person to respond from restating the obvious.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The jury must decide whether Trump falsified financial documents related to the hush money payment to Daniels, and whether he did it in an effort to conceal election-related crimes.

A bit more than that. They can't convict him of, as one legal commentator put it, "lying to his own cheque register". And they'll have to figure out how to pin someone down on personal expenditures, for which existing case law is really, really generous.

 

[GR66]

You Don’t have brain worms yet

Oh...I was thinking Never paid a porn star for sex yet

Does that make me a bad person?

 

[Remius]

Oh...I was thinking Never paid a porn star for sex yet

Does that make me a bad person?

Just someone who needs to get out and explore a bit more?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Are we talking about the same trial? The Daniels trial is happening right now, and she just took the stand yesterday and continuing tomorrow. She likely isn’t the only witness to take the stand either, so it won’t be a fast one.



The point of the trial isn’t that he had an affair with her while married to Melania. The point is, as per WaPo:

The jury must decide whether Trump falsified financial documents related to the hush money payment to Daniels, and whether he did it in an effort to conceal election-related crimes.

Of course it is. Everyone is aware there are three trials, with one of those in progress. I figured most people would understand that.
There is no Daniel's trial. She is a witness in a current prosecution against Trump.
Sooner or later the prosecution will have to make good and prove their allegations. So far, they aren't even in the ballpark.

 

[dimsum]

Of course it is. Everyone is aware there are three trials, with one of those in progress. I figured most people would understand that.
There is no Daniel's trial. She is a witness in a current prosecution against Trump.
Sooner or later the prosecution will have to make good and prove their allegations. So far, they aren't even in the ballpark.

I’d say the “hush money trial” could be the Daniels trial, since she was the other main party in it. She’s a bit more involved than “a witness”. That trial is whether they illegally falsified documents.

There are several trials against Trump, in both State and Federal jurisdictions.

 

[brihard]

Of course it is. Everyone is aware there are three trials, with one of those in progress. I figured most people would understand that.

Some of us are even aware that there are actually four.

 

[KevinB]

Moscow Marge’s fizzle.

House Blocks Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Effort to Oust Mike Johnson as Speaker — The Wall Street Journal

Democrats step in to help save Johnson from push to remove him

apple.news

 

[kkwd]

Some of us are even aware that there are actually four.

Well, 1 for sure. Issuing an indictment won't necessarily result in a trail. Who knows what will happen the next few weeks or months or years.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Some of us are even aware that there are actually four.

Touche. I was counting both of Smith’s prosecutions under the same umbrella. But he has problems of his own, concerning these cases, as does Willis. They might not even happen.

 

[brihard]

Touche. I was counting both of Smith’s prosecutions under the same umbrella. But he has problems of his own, concerning these cases, as does Willis. They might not even happen.

Why were you counting them together? They’re totally different offences, different sets of facts, different states and different judges.

 

[kkwd]

I've realized that I'm disqualified from being POTUS or VP:

• Not a native born American
• Never shot my dog
• Don't have brain worms
• Never paid a porn star for sex

And your uncle wasn't eaten by cannibals, I'm assuming.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I’d say the “hush money trial” could be the Daniels trial, since she was the other main party in it. She’s a bit more involved than “a witness”. That trial is whether they illegally falsified documents.

There are several trials against Trump, in both State and Federal jurisdictions.

I don't agree. She's a fact witness, not a defendent.
She had her trial and owes Trump around $600,000 dollars for the unsuccessful defamation lawsuit that she brought against him.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Why were you counting them together? They’re totally different offences, different sets of facts, different states and different judges.

And the same prosecutor. One who is throwing everything he possibly can at Trump. However, he has put all of that is in jeopardy now with his own actions. Judge Cannon has cancelled the court date and hasn't bothered rescheduling because of the findings coming out after unsealing documents.

I'm a simple guy, I like to speak in generalities most of the time. I am neither a lawyer or someone that lives on the minutia of court proceedings and expect everyone else to share that passion. Suffice to say, I could lump all of these cases together, based on the attempted conclusion they are all designed to reach. Which is to say they all have one purpose, and that is to keep Trump out of the WH. The individual particulars are publicity and puffery to achieve that end. That is my opinion and not likely to change so I see little sense in discussing it.

 

[brihard]

And the same prosecutor. One who is throwing everything he possibly can at Trump. However, he has put all of that is in jeopardy now with his own actions. Judge Cannon has cancelled the court date and hasn't bothered rescheduling because of the findings coming out after unsealing documents.

I'm a simple guy, I like to speak in generalities most of the time. I am neither a lawyer or someone that lives on the minutia of court proceedings and expect everyone else to share that passion. Suffice to say, I could lump all of these cases together, based on the attempted conclusion they are all designed to reach. Which is to say they all have one purpose, and that is to keep Trump out of the WH. The individual particulars are publicity and puffery to achieve that end. That is my opinion and not likely to change so I see little sense in discussing it.

He actually didn’t throw anything close to everything he could have. The DC prosecution is on a pretty tightly limited set of charges. Prosecutors appear to have kept it to a pretty narrow case on a very limited selection of individual charges to prove rather than something more sprawling. In the Florida case, although there are many more counts than in DC, they likewise held off from charging everything they could have. The volume of documents would have supported many more counts, but it appears they’re charging on a much narrower representative selection of documents rather than charging all of them.

And yes, I know your opinion is unlikely to change… on these occasions where you choose to discuss it anyway, I’m happy to offer a different point of view.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

He actually didn’t throw anything close to everything he could have. The DC prosecution is on a pretty tightly limited set of charges. Prosecutors appear to have kept it to a pretty narrow case on a very limited selection of individual charges to prove rather than something more sprawling. In the Florida case, although there are many more counts than in DC, they likewise held off from charging everything they could have. The volume of documents would have supported many more counts, but it appears they’re charging on a much narrower representative selection of documents rather than charging all of them.

And yes, I know your opinion is unlikely to change… on these occasions where you choose to discuss it anyway, I’m happy to offer a different point of view.

What they didn't charge with is immaterial.

The SCOTUS is likely to sewer the immunity challenge.

The unsealed documents, including the indictment for Florida are starting to cause real legal problems for the prosecution, including Smith’s mishandling of classified documents. Judge Cannon is going to order more unsealed so things might get real exciting. Smith may well find himself hoisted with his own petard.

I appreciate your candor and alternate point of view.

 

[brihard]

The SCOTUS is likely to sewer the immunity challenge.

Highly unlikely they would create a blanket immunity post-term for crimes committed while in office. We’ve discussed this before I know; they would create a situation where the president could literally get away with murder so long as they could defeat or dodge impeachment.

A realistic best case for Trump is SCOTUS kicks it back to the lower court to parse which acts were official acts in his character as president versus which were actions of a private citizen as a candidate for political office, and this being hammered out before any trial can proceed. Given that most of the acts in question were unquestionably in his capacity as candidate (which he himself identified as in various civil court proceedings), that ultimately wouldn’t get him off most or all of the hooks. But the name of the game for defence is delay. If they can kick the can down the road past the election, and if he were to be elected, he would continue to dodge prosecution for another four years.

 

[Remius]

In other news…

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/08/politics/house-rejects-greene-motion-to-vacate/index.html

At least Moscow Marjorie was stopped from wasting everyone’s time.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Highly unlikely they would create a blanket immunity post-term for crimes committed while in office. We’ve discussed this before I know; they would create a situation where the president could literally get away with murder so long as they could defeat or dodge impeachment.

A realistic best case for Trump is SCOTUS kicks it back to the lower court to parse which acts were official acts in his character as president versus which were actions of a private citizen as a candidate for political office, and this being hammered out before any trial can proceed. Given that most of the acts in question were unquestionably in his capacity as candidate (which he himself identified as in various civil court proceedings), that ultimately wouldn’t get him off most or all of the hooks. But the name of the game for defence is delay. If they can kick the can down the road past the election, and if he were to be elected, he would continue to dodge prosecution for another four years.

I said nothing about blanket immunity. Yes, I thought we settled that one, hence why I didn't say anything about it. I don't know why you brought it up.

Whether giving a ruling, kicking it back down, not being heard til after the election, they all sewer the immunity challenge and originate with the SCOTUS. I don't think there's a darn thing Jack Smith will accomplish, shit is starting to fall around him. They have shown the Top Secret and below folders, strewn around the floor was staged. The FBI had brought those folders with them and just stuffed papers in them, supposedly as the TS documents. It's also been found, classified material has been moved and no longer match the audit sheets, while under Smith’s control. Sounds like mishandling classified docs, doesn't it.