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A Deeply Fractured US

rumour has it that the Supreme Court has ruled that there is some presidential immunity for official acts.

rumour also has it that Biden has ordered simultaneous drone strikes on the Supreme Court and the Donald
 
It’s a lengthy and complex decision; I’d be careful putting much weight to hot takes on this one. It’s gonna take time to read (myself included) and for knowledgeable people to really wrap their heads around.

A few safe first impressions and conclusions:
  • The Court has authored a very, though not completely, deferential opinion to the executive powers of the office of the presidency. There is a very broad scope of immunity from prosecution for anything that is even arguably an ‘official act’.
  • The court differentiates between a narrow absolute immunity for certain key roles and authorities of the president that are basically constitutional powers, versus a much broader presumptive (but rebuttable) immunity for any ‘official act’.
  • There is no immunity for ‘unofficial acts’.
  • SCOTUS does not draw the line between those two and leaves it to the trial courts (and then obviously probable appeal all the way back up).
  • The prosecution of Trump for the Jan 6th case will definitely continue but will definitely be further delayed, probably significantly. SCOTUS has remanded the matter back to Judge Chutkan. She will be briefed on and will rule on the characterization of the many individual acts alleged in this indictment, and whether they are ‘official’, and if so, whether the presumption of immunity is rebutted for those specific facts. That’s a big delay.
  • Finally, SCOTUS has ruled that official acts cannot even be used as evidence in a criminal proceeding- this is a bit of a sleeper within the larger ruling, but may have massive consequences in prosecution where it’s necessary to prove knowledge and intent, and where official acts may illuminate that, or the larger context.
The consequences of this ruling for the Trump prosecution are obviously significant, but are likely of far less significance than what it means for the office of the president writ large. Any president, current or future, now knows they enjoy considerable immunity from prosecution for all manner of manifestly corrupt acts so long as it falls within their core constitutional powers. Some of the better hot takes I’ve seen - ones that will likely age well - suggest that we will come to realize that this decision will allow a president to enjoy immunity from prosecution for potentially massive abuse of the executive branch and its agencies. For a fun historical example, it appears Nixon would have enjoyed criminal immunity for Watergate.

We talk in Canada about the centralization of power in the PMO… Hold that thought in mind over coming years as we see further centralization of power in the presidency in the U.S. in a thread about the fracture of the United States, this is definitely turning the heat on the burner being turned up a notch or two.
 
It’s a lengthy and complex decision; I’d be careful putting much weight to hot takes on this one. It’s gonna take time to read (myself included) and for knowledgeable people to really wrap their heads around.

A few safe first impressions and conclusions:
  • The Court has authored a very, though not completely, deferential opinion to the executive powers of the office of the presidency. There is a very broad scope of immunity from prosecution for anything that is even arguably an ‘official act’.
  • The court differentiates between a narrow absolute immunity for certain key roles and authorities of the president that are basically constitutional powers, versus a much broader presumptive (but rebuttable) immunity for any ‘official act’.
  • There is no immunity for ‘unofficial acts’.
  • SCOTUS does not draw the line between those two and leaves it to the trial courts (and then obviously probable appeal all the way back up).
  • The prosecution of Trump for the Jan 6th case will definitely continue but will definitely be further delayed, probably significantly. SCOTUS has remanded the matter back to Judge Chutkan. She will be briefed on and will rule on the characterization of the many individual acts alleged in this indictment, and whether they are ‘official’, and if so, whether the presumption of immunity is rebutted for those specific facts. That’s a big delay.
  • Finally, SCOTUS has ruled that official acts cannot even be used as evidence in a criminal proceeding- this is a bit of a sleeper within the larger ruling, but may have massive consequences in prosecution where it’s necessary to prove knowledge and intent, and where official acts may illuminate that, or the larger context.
The consequences of this ruling for the Trump prosecution are obviously significant, but are likely of far less significance than what it means for the office of the president writ large. Any president, current or future, now knows they enjoy considerable immunity from prosecution for all manner of manifestly corrupt acts so long as it falls within their core constitutional powers. Some of the better hot takes I’ve seen - ones that will likely age well - suggest that we will come to realize that this decision will allow a president to enjoy immunity from prosecution for potentially massive abuse of the executive branch and its agencies. For a fun historical example, it appears Nixon would have enjoyed criminal immunity for Watergate.

We talk in Canada about the centralization of power in the PMO… Hold that thought in mind over coming years as we see further centralization of power in the presidency in the U.S. in a thread about the fracture of the United States, this is definitely turning the heat on the burner being turned up a notch or two.
I fully expect some “leopards ate my face” reactions when folks realize what this means for the current Biden administration.
 
I fully expect some “leopards ate my face” reactions when folks realize what this means for the current Biden administration.
Oh, Biden could do all kinds of ridiculous stuff and never face criminal prosecution for it as a result of this, absolutely.

One thought I just saw- now that there’s zero chance of Trump’s DC prosecution moving forward in a timely manner, Smith might as well pursue indictment of all the unindicted co-conspirators in the case. If a current or former president is substantially immune from criminal accountability, those around him should still fear the consequences of furthering alleged crimes. Many of the state level criminal prosecutions show there to have been a host of enablers who could and should face prosecution federally for their consolidated actions.
 
The article states that there are 249 people charged with the obstruction charges whose cases are still pending charged, however, they are also charged with other crimes including felonies and/or misdemeanors. So, even though the obstruction charges get dropped, they can still be convicted and sentenced on the remaining charges.

The people most impacted by the ruling are the 52 people who were convicted of that charge alone (of whom 27 are incarcerated). Their the charges will be dropped and the 27 already in jail I imagine get released.
 
The article states that there are 249 people charged with the obstruction charges whose cases are still pending charged, however, they are also charged with other crimes including felonies and/or misdemeanors. So, even though the obstruction charges get dropped, they can still be convicted and sentenced on the remaining charges.

The people most impacted by the ruling are the 52 people who were convicted of that charge alone (of whom 27 are incarcerated). Their the charges will be dropped and the 27 already in jail I imagine get released.
Note that in a bunch of those cases they took the guilty plea in a deal, but were also charged with other offences. My understanding is the plea deals leave those other charges able to be reopened if the obstruction count should fall. They’ll need to decide whether it’s in their best interest to open the matter back up and maybe get smoked at trial on other offences, or take what was likely a decent deal that they already got and be done with it. DOJ has a phenomenal record at trial for J6 offences. For anyone who could still be facing a felony it’s probably not a hard choice, though those facing only misdemeanors if the obstruction charge is struck might have more to gain.
 
Note that in a bunch of those cases they took the guilty plea in a deal, but were also charged with other offences. My understanding is the plea deals leave those other charges able to be reopened if the obstruction count should fall. They’ll need to decide whether it’s in their best interest to open the matter back up and maybe get smoked at trial on other offences, or take what was likely a decent deal that they already got and be done with it. DOJ has a phenomenal record at trial for J6 offences. For anyone who could still be facing a felony it’s probably not a hard choice, though those facing only misdemeanors if the obstruction charge is struck might have more to gain.
I’m not sure to what standard prosecutors in the US are held to act in good faith, but in Canada if the basis of a plea deal falls apart subsequent to incarceration, re-prosecuting on other charges that were dropped or offences that were acknowledged and could have been charged but were not in exchange for a plea agreement, that opens a rotten pathway to bad faith Crown dealings. If a new prosecution on new charges starts and then fails at trial, and the motivation is some form of malice (sore loser) then you know precisely where that would go.
 
I’m not sure to what standard prosecutors in the US are held to act in good faith, but in Canada if the basis of a plea deal falls apart subsequent to incarceration, re-prosecuting on other charges that were dropped or offences that were acknowledged and could have been charged but were not in exchange for a plea agreement, that opens a rotten pathway to bad faith Crown dealings. If a new prosecution on new charges starts and then fails at trial, and the motivation is some form of malice (sore loser) then you know precisely where that would go.
Again my understanding is it was explicitly written into the plea deals, not left open as some sort of quasi-double jeopardy thing. It would have been a known risk on which anyone taking those deals would have been able to seek and receive legal advice. I believe it also only applies to charges that were actually laid but were dropped/stayed/whatever as part of the plea deal.
 
Donald Trump claims supreme court ruling that presidents have some immunity is ‘big win’ – live

Big surprise. < sarcasm emoji.

The six conservative justices were in the majority. The three liberals disented.

Five of the six conservative justices on the Supreme Court were appointed by Republican presidents who lost the popular vote, and confirmed by senators elected by a minority of Americans.
 
Again my understanding is it was explicitly written into the plea deals, not left open as some sort of quasi-double jeopardy thing. It would have been a known risk on which anyone taking those deals would have been able to seek and receive legal advice. I believe it also only applies to charges that were actually laid but were dropped/stayed/whatever as part of the plea deal.

The specific charge dealt with by the SCOTUS decision in Fischer v. United States is 18 U. S. C. §1512(c)(2). There have been a few individuals who pleaded guilty to that and been sentenced. I picked the first one from the list and found the details of his case, including his plea agreement.

9. Waivers
a. Statute of Limitations
Your client agrees that, should the conviction following your client's plea of guilty
pursuant to this Agreement be vacated for any reason, any prosecution, based on the conduct set
forth in the attached Statement of Offense, that is not time-barred by the applicable statute of
limitations on the date of the signing of this Agreement (including any counts that the
Government has agreed not to prosecute or to dismiss at sentencing pursuant to this
Agreement) may be commenced or reinstated against your client
, notwithstanding the expiration
of the statute of limitations between the signing of this Agreement and the commencement or
reinstatement of such prosecution. It is the intent of this Agreement to waive all defenses based
on the statute of limitations with respect to any prosecution of conduct set forth in the attached
Statement of Offense that is not time-barred on the date that this Agreement is signed.
 
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