A Deeply Fractured US

[dimsum]

Imagine thinking this is the 1800s.

Buddy, have you heard about these recent inventions like the aeroplane, the radio, the TV, the internet?

This is a globalized world, and the "liberal" globalists push the same stuff in every Western country, and their opponents are increasingly reaching out to each other.

Well then why are we even having separate threads on various elections, etc if they’re all interconnected anyways?

Yes, this is a globalized world. If we’re going to talk about reaching out between countries, the CPC is looking at what the GOP is saying and doing. But talking about the CPC isn’t relevant to this thread. I may feel more drawn to the Dems if I was an American voter, but I’m not so I don’t say “us” when referring to the Dems, nor do I say “them” when referring to GOP.

Either way - unlike what’s happening in the US, politics isn’t always an “us v them” thing.

 

[KevinB]

Either way - unlike what’s happening in the US, politics isn’t always an “us v them” thing.

Last month there was a really good article in the NYT, about why Democracy tends to fail, and it’s mainly about the way that the Parties operate and acquire power, so it’s no longer a true democracy, but the larger parties playing US v THEM, and find individual voter and entire constituencies lose their voice.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Especially since the vast, vast majority of folks in this forum don’t live in the US.

It’s one thing to debate American politics, but unless you live there then “us” and “them” aren’t really valid terms.

Well, I live less than a kilometer from downtown Detroit. What happens in the US affects me.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Whos the Us and the Them?

Those that support the Republican position and those who don't.

 

[Cloud Cover]

She has literally made the demand three times today. This isn’t her joking or being sarcastic, nor is it ‘us vs them’, it’s just Boebert sidling up to an already low bar of expectations and still finding room to squirm under. But it’s indicative of the sort of bad faith that comes even from congressional representatives… In a thread about America’s fracture, it’s topical.

Receipts:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1815369663947198920

https://twitter.com/x/status/1815422489989620223

https://twitter.com/x/status/1815474214008475918

Perhaps we are at the point where Jimmy Carter might out live Joe Biden.

 

[dimsum]

Well, I live less than a kilometer from downtown Detroit. What happens in the US affects me.

What happens in the US affects all of us in Canada.

My point was that unless you (or anyone) can vote in the US, calling a US party “us” and another US party “them” is a bit misleading. It’s like Canadians with Trump or Harris or whatever US candidate paraphernalia - unless they happen to be dual citizens and can vote in US elections, what’s the point of the support?

Those that support the Republican position and those who don't.

Again, politics doesn’t have to be an “us v them” game. It’s possible to support parts of one party platform, and parts of another one. Who you end up voting for should be who reflects your voting intentions more.

Being only 100% towards one or the other party is frankly ridiculous. I know of some very left leaning folks who own many guns and support 2A, for example. They flip on most elections based on the party platform.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What happens in the US affects all of us in Canada.

My point was that unless you (or anyone) can vote in the US, calling a US party “us” and another US party “them” is a bit misleading. It’s like Canadians with Trump or Harris or whatever US candidate paraphernalia - unless they happen to be dual citizens and can vote in US elections, what’s the point of the support?


Again, politics doesn’t have to be an “us v them” game. It’s possible to support parts of one party platform, and parts of another one. Who you end up voting for should be who reflects your voting intentions more.

Being only 100% towards one or the other party is frankly ridiculous. I know of some very left leaning folks who own many guns and support 2A, for example. They flip on most elections based on the party platform.

Have it however you want it.

 

[Lumber]

Have it however you want it.

I'm sorry, are you saying you are against "reasonable"?

 

[brihard]

It’s possible to support parts of one party platform, and parts of another one. Who you end up voting for should be who reflects your voting intentions more.

I’d add the caveat “without unacceptably compromising any of your core values or principles”. No poison-pill deal breaker, in other words.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm sorry, are you saying you are against "reasonable"?

Said nothing of the sort, but nice try. I'm saying it's not worth getting into a pissing contest over. You do whatever makes you happy, but I'm not obligated to agree with your stance. You know by now, I cut my own path. You can agree, disagree or ignore, as some do. I'll discuss things that are of interest to me and those with a genuine want to discuss them. Trying to bait me, embarrass me or cancel me only gets you ignored. I'm not everyone's cup of tea and I also have those who I could absolutely care less about. Take away what you will from all of this.

 

[Lumber]

Said nothing of the sort, but nice try. I'm saying it's not worth getting into a pissing contest over. You do whatever makes you happy, but I'm not obligated to agree with your stance. You know by now, I cut my own path. You can agree, disagree or ignore, as some do. I'll discuss things that are of interest to me and those with a genuine want to discuss them. Trying to bait me, embarrass me or cancel me only gets you ignored. I'm not everyone's cup of tea and I also have those who I could absolutely care less about. Take away what you will from all of this.

Ignore you?! You're my favourite part of this site!

 

[QV]

It's amusing to watch the euphoric hyperventilating in response to the KH nomination. Not too long ago and based on her record, the level of support for KH was below the floor amongst her own party, I can only guess support amongst reps and independents was even lower. Now with no other option, the media and establishment machine are working over time to showcase this sudden unicorn to rescue the country from evil.

Standard playbook for last year will apply again. She'll make a few public appearances, then hide in the basement so she doesn't go off message while a huge media push promotes her.

 

[Quirky]

Standard playbook for last year will apply again. She'll make a few public appearances, then hide in the basement so she doesn't go off message while a huge media push promotes her.

Election interference from external sources is the least of our concern. The biggest influencer is bias media reporting, from both sides. After listening to all the things KH stands for and has said (18-24 year olds are idiots) in the past, it makes Joe Biden look like a moderate.

 

[dimsum]

From what I’m seeing, she can sit back and watch JD Vance implode support for the GOP. The Swiftie backlash seems silly except that Taylor Swift has a huge following in the young voter crowd, which both parties are trying to court. I would not be surprised if her actions / words cause another groundswell of voting for the Dems like in 2020.

“Never interrupt your adversary when they’re making a mistake” and so forth.

JD Vance reminded of Taylor Swift’s power as a ‘childless cat lady’

Trump’s new running mate has come under fire for resurfaced 2020 comments in which he disparaged several constituencies, including Americans who don’t have children and women who love t…

www.mercurynews.com

It’s puzzling that the GOP has brought up the possibility of a Harris nomination for years (Biden stepping down for whatever reason and Harris becoming POTUS) but when she actually does it, they seem utterly unprepared.

I mean, the GOP had to tell their own colleagues not to make racist and sexist attacks - that is not a good look for any party trying to win the undecideds and independents.

Republican leaders urge colleagues to steer clear of racist and sexist attacks on Harris

The admonitions come as Republicans and Trump‘s campaign scramble to adjust to the reality of a new Democratic rival less than four months before Election Day.

apnews.com

 

[Remius]

From what I’m seeing, she can sit back and watch JD Vance implode support for the GOP. The Swiftie backlash seems silly except that Taylor Swift has a huge following in the young voter crowd, which both parties are trying to court. I would not be surprised if her actions / words cause another groundswell of voting for the Dems like in 2020.

“Never interrupt your adversary when they’re making a mistake” and so forth.

This is one reason I think the GOP machine was caught completely off guard with Biden stepping down. JD Vance was picked exactly because he was a bit of a mini Trump like running mate who can communicate well. They went with him because their thought was that beating Biden was going to be a forgone conclusion. They didn’t need a balance or an establishment friendly candidate etc etc. They went all in. Now they have a ticket that will face off against a ticket they were not excepting and will likely be completely unsuitable to deal with the Dem ticket.

I mentioned this months ago about Taylor Swift. She is a brand with hundreds of millions of followers and consumers. That brand has data and trends on all of them. The Democrats will want to tap into that. It’s a data system already in place and will be exploited to their advantage. And every time the GOP goes off the issues script and into the identity politics side that data system will help the Democrats formulate their responses and reactions.

It’s puzzling that the GOP has brought up the possibility of a Harris nomination for years (Biden stepping down for whatever reason and Harris becoming POTUS) but when she actually does it, they seem utterly unprepared.

They were. See above. It was just theatre on the GOP’s part but they were convinced he was running until the end.

I mean, the GOP had to tell their own colleagues not to make racist and sexist attacks - that is not a good look for any party trying to win the undecideds and independents.

Republican leaders urge colleagues to steer clear of racist and sexist attacks on Harris

The admonitions come as Republicans and Trump‘s campaign scramble to adjust to the reality of a new Democratic rival less than four months before Election Day.

apnews.com

Yup. It’s quite telling. It is likely that their own numbers are showing that racist and sexist attacks aren’t going to work this time. They need to regain the discipline they had. There was need to use racism and sexism against Biden. But he’s not the guy anymore so some elements of the GOP are going back to their base instincts. And Dems are loving it…

 

[RangerRay]

If the Dems were really interested in winning, they’d pick Liz Cheney or Adam Kinsinger to be the running mate to run as a unity ticket.

But that won’t happen.

 

[Remius]

If the Dems were really interested in winning, they’d pick Liz Cheney or Adam Kinsinger to be the running mate to run as a unity ticket.

But that won’t happen.

Yeah I am curious how they do this.

The problem with an all female ticket is that may turn off some people if they decide to do the whole glass ceiling but Clinton did and push that angle,

Honestly I think Senator Kelly is a good choice and balances them out nicely and he’s apparently on the short list. Astronaut, Gabby Giffords his his wife etc etc. Checks a lot of boxes to counter the GOP attack lines.

 

[Remius]

Some good ideas here but I think most of this won’t see the light of day…

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/29/politics/biden-supreme-court-reform/index.html

 

[Brad Sallows]

Some good ideas here but I think most of this won’t see the light of day…

None of it will. Democrats are smart enough to know that they benefit from immunity for official acts (eg. a drone strike that executes a US citizen without due process), and understand well enough that "official" is a lane that doesn't include obviously criminal means no matter how much they posit extreme scenarios. Republicans are smart enough to know that the point of a code of conduct is to provide a facade of entry points for harassing Republican-nominated justices even more than is already the case. The supposedly balanced mechanism for term limits falls apart every time a justice has to or wants to retire prematurely.

The point is to shore up Democratic enthusiasm for congressional elections.

Every time Democrats float ideas for USSC reform they are basically telling everyone how they think: the USSC ought to be populated by partisans who will do as they are bid.

 

[Remius]

None of it will. Democrats are smart enough to know that they benefit from immunity for official acts (eg. a drone strike that executes a US citizen without due process), and understand well enough that "official" is a lane that doesn't include obviously criminal means no matter how much they posit extreme scenarios. Republicans are smart enough to know that the point of a code of conduct is to provide a facade of entry points for harassing Republican-nominated justices even more than is already the case. The supposedly balanced mechanism for term limits falls apart every time a justice has to or wants to retire prematurely.

The point is to shore up Democratic enthusiasm for congressional elections.

Every time Democrats float ideas for USSC reform they are basically telling everyone how they think: the USSC ought to be populated by partisans who will do as they are bid.

Can’t disagree and I suspect it’s an election ploy more than anything else.

But maximum terms and codes of ethics and conduct are good things.