Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]

[Judy]

  But on the other hand, us AEC folk will have a chance to do all three before our careers are over.

That's not necessarily true.  I'm weapons, and I'll always be weapons.  I think if you want to do the conversion course, that's a different story.  But it's not mandatory, and if you're content doing what you're doing (especially if you're ATC) then you're pretty much going to stay there.

 

[Neilio]

Yeah Judy you're right.  Most ATC's I know have done both (IFR and VFR) though and some have done all three.  So you're right in that you probably won't switch from AW to ATC unless you want, but within ATC you will do both.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

I don't believe the bottleneck has been fixed, Aerospaced.
Students are pegged as either weapons or ATC before they go to Cornwall, and do their DL accordingly.  How do they know if they're going to be a successful weapons controller based on a bunch of written tests?
We've decreased the length of the courses, but failure rate is still high.  How does that help?

What does discipline assignment have to do with bottlenecks? Production capacity has gone from 48 AECs per year to 90 in the last year. I'd say the bottleneck is fixed. However, you are right, the current way people are assigned to a discipline is not the best and that is being fixed as well. If you are suggesting in-house core provided candidates with a better exposure than D/L then perhaps you are right. But in-house core caused its own problems. Moving core from in-house to D/L was a means to fix the bottleneck issue. Perhaps not ideal but very necessary to fix the AEC manning problem. However, D/L may soon go the way of dinosaur and be replaced with real instructor led crses in each discipline. It won't be a return to a CFSACO type Core though. Regardless, the proposed courses combined with some OJT should give candidates a better chance of identifying what discipline they would like. The fact that as an occupation we actually take seriously the candidate's input on their discipline choice should be seen as a positive. That exists now and will continue even after the proposed changes are instituted.

Course lengths for each specific discipline have not decreased. In fact they have increased a bit. Failure rates are still high (35-40%) because there is no selection testing at the recruitment level. Currently AECs candidates must simply pass the CFAT test, albeit at high level (60th percentile vice 38th for GSO/Pilot). The problem is the CFAT test doesn't screen well enough for the aptitudes required to be an AEC. This lack of selection testing is being fixed. In particular, during the last two years research has been conducted on every new AEC candidate. They were tested upon arrival in Cornwall then their graduation results analysed by research scientists. The results of that research have now progressed to where a trial run of a new AEC selection test will be conducted at the aircrew selection centre (ACS) within the next month or so. The goal is to harmonise all "aircrew" type selection (Pilot, Nav and AEC) at ACS. This new AEC Selection test will have real cut-off scores that will ensure candidates that proceed to Cornwall will be of a calibre likely to succeed. However, back to your original point... even with a well researched selection test with real cut-off scores the differences in aptitude requirements for VFR/IFR/Wpns are quite subtle and I don't think we ill ever get to a point where we will have a test good enough to differentiate between them. We will definitely get to a place where we can tell candidates in they are likely to succeed but not to a the point where we can direct them to a specific discipline... possible but it will take considerable more research. We will have to be satisfied that once the candidates have passed through our selection test filter they get few good courses to provide background in each discipline, then with some OJT, hopefully at an operational wing ,that they will be able to offer us a reasoned choice and that we can accommodate that choice given the needs of the service.

 

[Celticgirl]

The fact that as an occupation we actually take seriously the candidate's input on their discipline choice should be seen as a positive. That exists now and will continue even after the proposed changes are instituted.

At what stage in the process do we submit our preferences?

The results of that research have now progressed to where a trial run of a new AEC selection test will be conducted at the aircrew selection centre (ACS) within the next month or so. The goal is to harmonise all "aircrew" type selection (Pilot, Nav and AEC) at ACS. This new AEC Selection test will have real cut-off scores that will ensure candidates that proceed to Cornwall will be of a calibre likely to succeed.

What happens to those who don't meet the cut-off? Will they be re-coursed? Will this test happen before or after the OJT/DL phase? Obviously, candidates would rather know whether or not they were continuing on to CFSACO earlier rather than later.

 

[Neilio]

We submit our preferences during basic training (or atleast you should).  This test he speaks of happens before you're accepted (a la pilots and navs).  Unfortunately there are only maybe 4 questions on the CFAT that are pertinent to our occupation.

 

[aesop081]

What happens to those who don't meet the cut-off? Will they be re-coursed? Will this test happen before or after the OJT/DL phase? Obviously, candidates would rather know whether or not they were continuing on to CFSACO earlier rather than later.

Aircrew selection center happens at the recruting stage. At that point, applicants have not normaly received offers yet. If AEC goes the Trenton route, i think it would be fair to say that at that point, people have not been enrolled yet.

 

[Celticgirl]

We submit our preferences during basic training (or atleast you should).  This test he speaks of happens before you're accepted (a la pilots and navs). 

OK, that's good. I wonder, though, how many AECs know they will be submitting their preferences during basic training? I only learned from this site, not from the RC. If I had gone by what I was told at the RC and what is on the CF recruiting site, I would still believe that I will have about 7-8 months of SLT to do after BMOQ and then 7 months at CFSACO, neither of which is the case anymore.

Along with all of these changes, sharing of information with applicants and candidates should be a priority, too.

 

[Neilio]

I agree with you Celticgirl, I went into basic not knowing the difference between the three occupations were.  Fortunately for me, I/he chose the best route for me to take in hindsight anyway.  And yeah in a perfect world the emphasis would be on communication letting applicants know what to expect, and possibly even some information on the different routes to take so you can make more of an educated guess, unfortunately the information isn't out there yet.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Did the RC make the AEC interactive recruitment DVD available? (Not just the AEC video but the entire interative DVD) It is pretty informative as it was done by CFSACO with the help of the CF Mulitmedia Services.

Currently, stream preferences are solicited by AF AEC Training while the candidate is on OJT prior to D/L. A concerted effort is made to give candidates what they want. However, if everyone asks for VFR they are not going to get it.

As to the RC and Website info.... well, the training system has changed much in the last year and will change again in 2009. It is hard for them to keep up to date with the changes.

 

[Celticgirl]

Did the RC make the AEC interactive recruitment DVD available? (Not just the AEC video but the entire interative DVD) It is pretty informative as it was done by CFSACO with the help of the CF Mulitmedia Services.

Yes, they did in my case, and it inspired me to put this trade as my #1 choice.

Currently, stream preferences are solicited by AF AEC Training while the candidate is on OJT prior to D/L. A concerted effort is made to give candidates what they want. However, if everyone asks for VFR they are not going to get it.

That's understandable, but I do think it's good that there is a "concerted effort" to give us what we want, even if it's not always possible.

As to the RC and Website info.... well, the training system has changed much in the last year and will change again in 2009. It is hard for them to keep up to date with the changes.

It will change again in 2009? Just when I had things all figured out.    As for the website, some basic info does need to be updated, like the fact that SLT is no longer required after basic for most trades. For mature applicants especially, the amount of time one is going to be away (from family) on training does matter.

 

[Celticgirl]

@Kruggle...Haven't heard anything from you in a while. Any word?

Grando and I are hoping to see you at the Mega in January, aren't we Grando?  ;D

 

[Grando]

Absolutely!  I'm looking forward to being in tip-top shape come the end of April!

 

[dwalter]

I haven't said much around here in a very long time after I got chucked into Air Support for ROTP, but now things might be going my way again. I was talking to my optometrist who told me in about a year, I will be able to have my laser eye surgery done! That means I will be able to qualify for AEC once again! My heart is still with this trade and so I am going to see what needs to be done to get myself there.

 

[Celticgirl]

I haven't said much around here in a very long time after I got chucked into Air Support for ROTP, but now things might be going my way again. I was talking to my optometrist who told me in about a year, I will be able to have my laser eye surgery done! That means I will be able to qualify for AEC once again! My heart is still with this trade and so I am going to see what needs to be done to get myself there.

ID, if it's what you really want, go for it! I'm wondering though...why do you have to wait a year for the surgery?

 

[stryte]

ID, if it's what you really want, go for it! I'm wondering though...why do you have to wait a year for the surgery?

ID, correct me if I am wrong but I imagine you are forced to wait a year in order to ensure your prescription is done changing significantly. I myself have been waiting for that very reason. Luckily, I had my eye exam a little over a week ago and I was happy to learn it has ceased changing. Now I am just saving up the $2990 needed to do Lasik on both eyes.

 

[dwalter]

That's essentially it. They want me to turn 21 before I can get it done to make sure my eyes have stopped changing, even though my prescription has been solid for the past 2 years now. My optometrist said that because of that I might be able to get in a bit early. It will have to be taken a bit at a time, and be determined based on my next eye exam. I'm rather excited about the idea, but I am expecting a hassle to get through the admin portion of it since I'm already in...

 

[Bossmanmj]

Here's a shift away from courses & the like...

I was wondering what the odds are for an AEC to be posted to Gilenkirschen Germany to serve with NATO AWACS?

 

[Judy]

If you're an air weapons controller, then the odds are quite good.  I think there are about 30 weapons controllers in GK right now.

We're very lucky in that we have a lot of OUTCAN postings, both NATO and USAF.

Of course, NATO postings are second tour postings, but you can be posted to USAF AWACS right after 51 Sqn.

 

[Bossmanmj]

Judy,

Thx much, good to know.

 

[dwalter]

Just remember that's a posting that most AECs like the idea of.