Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]

[Judy]

Don't forget about the E3-F, Gazoo.  One lucky controller gets to spend a tour in France.

 

[Gazoo]

Yes, I completely forgot about that one.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

I suspect there are more AECs flying right now than ANAVs; certainly on a percentage of PML anyway. Regardless, AECs are treated as aircrew due to the nature of control duties having many of the same physiological demands as flying. This extends itself beyond just the medicals into areas such as crew duty rest, restrictions on alcohol use and nutritional support (think "between meal supplements").

 

[aesop081]

having many of the same physiological demands as flying.

:rofl:

 

[h3tacco]

I suspect there are more AECs flying right now than ANAVs;

Just curious but what do you think are the percentages for AECs and ANAVs in flying billets. I've never seen the numbers so I honestly don't know but I would guess that around 75% of the ANAV trade at the Capt level are in flying billets and maybe 50% at the Major level. Again, I've never seen any numbers but I would think the AEC trade would closer to 30 - 40% mark. 

 

[Judy]

I don't think it'd be that high for flying AECs.

Out of 220ish AECs, we have approx:

Tinker: 10ish
Alaska: 2 or 3
Germany: 10ish
France: 1

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Cdn Aviator... if it bothers you that AECs are considered Aircrew that is your problem. If you were chaffing at the use of the adverb "many" then I acquiesce and change it to "some", as the physical demands are certainly not the same... except when we spin in our chairs to see who can get the most revolutions on one push.

h3tacco, I don't actually know the numbers for AECs and ANAVs. It was meant as tongue in cheek given the large number of Navs that don't actually navigate... but I suppose they fly so I should retract that as well.

 

[aesop081]

Cdn Aviator... if it bothers you that AECs are considered Aircrew that is your problem.

It doesnt bother me, it puzzles me. When you are required to take AMT and SERE and have to endure things like 6 hours at 300 feet in bad weather, being bounced around like a pinball while breathing in cordite smoke at 2am after 3 days of min crew rest then maybe i would understand.

In the mean time i'll just keep watching the guys in the tower pick their nose on FLIR until i go flying ( something aircrews do).

 

[Occam]

being bounced around like a pinball while breathing in cordite smoke

I have no doubt that you were inhaling something, but it certainly wasn't smoke from cordite, which is smokeless and used as a propellant, not making smoke - and hasn't been produced in years.

 

[aesop081]

I have no doubt that you were inhaling something, but it certainly wasn't smoke from cordite, which is smokeless and used as a propellant, not making smoke - and hasn't been produced in years.

Who said i was making smoke ?

Whatever it is, it does propel stuff, makes smoke and burns when you get a wiff of it.

Maybe you have heard of JAU-22s ?

 

[Aerospaced_out]

It doesnt bother me, it puzzles me.

Puzzled? That’s why we have AECs… to tell pilots what to do when they get puzzled. That aside, your puzzlement is either a clear reflection of your desire to be witty over constructive or tied to the significant delta between the intellectual selection criteria between AECs and PLTs. The fact of the matter is the aircrew designation for AEC protects the flying community as much as it does the controllers. After being bounced around like a pinball while breathing in cordite smoke at 2am after 3 days of min crew rest let’s see if you would prefer to have a PAR approach in IFR conditions managed by a controller who isn’t governed by all the regulations that come with the aircrew designation.

 

[Celticgirl]

Puzzled? That’s why we have AECs… to tell pilots what to do when they get puzzled. That aside, your puzzlement is either a clear reflection of your desire to be witty over constructive or tied to the significant delta between the intellectual selection criteria between AECs and PLTs. The fact of the matter is the aircrew designation for AEC protects the flying community as much as it does the controllers. After being bounced around like a pinball while breathing in cordite smoke at 2am after 3 days of min crew rest let’s see if you would prefer to have a PAR approach in IFR conditions managed by a controller who isn’t governed by all the regulations that come with the aircrew designation.

Don't let the "flying" comments fool you - he's not a pilot.  ;D  I would have to agree that AECs being given the "aircrew designation" makes sense. They do, after all, contribute directly to the safety of all flights in the CF, including the ones Cdn Aviator is on.

 

[aesop081]

Don't let the "flying" comments fool you - he's not a pilot. 

Something that could have  been gathered very quickly by looking at my profile. Are you saying in dont fly ? If that the case, please inform me as to what i did for 9.8 hours yesterday.

And we did a PAR yesterday btw.......just for training.

They do, after all, contribute directly to the safety of all flights in the CF, including the ones Cdn Aviator is on.

I never once said otherwise.

 

[kincanucks]

Don't let the "flying" comments fool you - he's not a pilot.  ;D  I would have to agree that AECs being given the "aircrew designation" makes sense. They do, after all, contribute directly to the safety of all flights in the CF, including the ones Cdn Aviator is on.

Comment removed as I was in a foul mood when I wrote it.

 

[Celticgirl]

Are you saying in dont fly ?

No, I never said you don't fly. I fly, too. WestJet usually.  ;D

Comment removed as I was in a foul mood when I wrote it.

I missed it. Perhaps that is a good thing. In any case, I think CA has pretty thick skin, so no worries.

 

[aesop081]

I fly, too. WestJet usually.  ;D

So what do you think i do in the airplane, just sit there ?

 

[Celticgirl]

So what do you think i do in the airplane, just sit there ?

Honestly, I don't know much about your MOC, but feel free to educate me on it. I'd love to learn. I did recently watch a cool YouTube video about it, though.  ;D

Cool video - Almost makes me want to be an AES Op

 

[Gazoo]

Just curious but what do you think are the percentages for AECs and ANAVs in flying billets. I've never seen the numbers so I honestly don't know but I would guess that around 75% of the ANAV trade at the Capt level are in flying billets and maybe 50% at the Major level. Again, I've never seen any numbers but I would think the AEC trade would closer to 30 - 40% mark.   

I went to the career managers site on EMAA and compiled the numbers for ANAV and AEC, it includes all ranks up to Col:
ANAV:Current # of positions - 703
         Current # unfilled       - 147
          # filled                      - 556
I also counted the number of ANAV's who's current position is an actual flying/aircrew(navigating) position, and not some type of staff job.
Current # flying/aircrew  -  165
So in summary 28% of ANAV's fill an aircrew(flying) position

AEC: Current # of positions - 527
Current # unfilled       - 102
# filled                      - 425
I also counted the number of AEC's who's current position is an actual control position(IFR, VFR, and Weapons), and not some type of staff job as well as the number that fly(AEW).
Current # controlling - 227 (53% of filled positions)
Current # flying        -  46  (included in # of controlling pos.)
So in summary 53% of Aerospace Controllers fill an operational position

 

[Gazoo]

I just re-checked the spreadsheet and counted 122 Capt/Lt ANAV's that fly(NAV).  The criteria I used to compare the numbers for ANAV and AEC were the same.  Any person filling a training position in other than an operational sqn didn't count as either a navigator that navigates, or a controller that controls.  As an example those instructing at Nav school in Wpg, as well as those of us at CFSACO Cornwall don't count(operationally).
If there are any flaws in my logic, let me know.

 

[aesop081]

  As an example those instructing at Nav school in Wpg,

If there are any flaws in my logic, let me know.

Nav instructors at CFANS fly regularly and are in receipt of aircrew allowance. Thus yes, they count as they are posted to a flying billet.

After all, the querry was :

Just curious but what do you think are the percentages for AECs and ANAVs in flying billets.

Furthermore, navigators posted as instructors to 404 Sqn are not only flying but operational as well. Thats why it is an OTU ( Operational training unit ). I dont know if it is the same for 406 Sqn ( CH-124 training unit).