AESOp ( MOC 081)

[peterpan]

Hey moose, there isn't a pre requisite math form you have to do before course starts, but it is good to brush up on some math as there is some formulas you have to do while on your 3's. And for getting in around April, I am not too sure, as they pick people in January for the April class

 

[Zoomie]

  I ask this because I Officiate hockey on base and minor hockey in the city, and I would love to keep it up.

Lots of time for extra-curricular activities - where-ever you get posted.

 

[Wilamanjaro]

I'm looking into changing trades to AESOp, I was just wondering if I am correct about the training. 24 weeks in Winnipeg, another 20 something weeks in nova scotia, then posted to either Halifax or Victoria? And do the AESOps go away with the navy ships for months at a time or would we usually just stay on the coast?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'm looking into changing trades to AESOp, I was just wondering if I am correct about the training. 24 weeks in Winnipeg

Give or take;  BAQC (3s) is about 3 months,  IAQC (5s) is 50 trg day by the QS but could be longer depending on weather, aircraft, etc.  Call is 2.5 - 3 months.  Also, before you do the 5s, you have to do AMT (another week in Wpg).  Take into consideration that there could be a relatively short to relatively long pause between your 3s and 5s and that will add time to the equation (I only had a 1 week break, good in one way, bad in others).

Aside from that, there are some changes that AFAIK were proposed but am not sure if they are/will be implemented so won't mention at this time.  Suffice to say, it is the CF and things change constantly.

another 20 something weeks in nova scotia

 

For nice easy numbers to work with, figure on 6 months.

MOAT = Maritime Operational Aircrew Training, the next phase of trg for those going LRP (Aurora).  MOAT is out of 404 LRP & T in Greenwood.  You could end up being picked for Non-Acoustic Sensors Op *NASO*  or Acoustics Sensor Op *ASO* (commonly called "dry" and "wet"), and there are some differences in the trg within each specialty.

OTU = Operational Training Unit, the next phase of trg for those going MH (SeaKing). OTU is out of 406 (M) OTS in Shearwater.

Throw into the mix the Basic Lands Op Survival Course/Basic SERE crse (10 days) and Sea Survivial crse (3 days) at some point in time.

then posted to either Halifax or Victoria?

Those who go MH can expect to be posted to either 443 Sqn in Pat Bay (Victoria) BC or 423 Sqn in Shearwater.

Those who go LRP can expect to be posted to either 407 LRP in Comox BC or 405 LRP in Greenwood NS.

It is possible to not be posted to a flying position right out of Winnipeg after Wings.  There is a chance for ground jobs like Wing Ops, or other support jobs.  CFEWC (CF Electronic Warfare Center) outside Ottawa ON is also a possibility as well.

And do the AESOps go away with the navy ships for months at a time or would we usually just stay on the coast?

Aircrew are attached to a Helicopter Air Detachment (HelAirDet or AirDet) for a HMCS.  When the ship is alongside, the AirDet works out of the Sqn lines in Shearwater /Pats Bay.  If/when the ship deploys with the HelAirDet onboard, the AirDet pers are along for the trip, whether it is a short or long one.  Some could be a week or two, some could be 6+months. 

It is a great trade, with great people and leadership.  Good luck!

 

[Sub_Guy]

Another thing to remember is that the courses do not always line up, so it is possible that you could be sitting around for close to a year after your training in Winnipeg, while you wait for your MOAT/OTU.  (extreme cases, but I have seen it happen)

 

[peterpan]

Yes, the training is approx. 24 weeks in Winnipeg which is ussually split  (so you will have some time to go home in between) between your 3's, 12 weeks and 5's, 12 + weeks as it may run longer because of weather or aircraft sevicability  , and there is about 20 or so weeks in either Halifax (sea king) or Comox (aurora), again just an estimate as it could and probably will run longer, depending on what platform you are chosen for. And yes, if you are sea king, you go where ever the ship goes, and gone as long as the ship is gone.

 

[peterpan]

LOL..eye in the sky answered it a lot better then i did.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Another thing to remember is that the courses do not always line up, so it is possible that you could be sitting around for close to a year after your training in Winnipeg, while you wait for your MOAT/OTU.  (extreme cases, but I have seen it happen)

I know of 1 guy who waited so long just to get a crse load msg for the 3s, he got fed up and went back to his former trade.  It was approx a year waiting when he said 'done'.  Extreme case also, and was right at near the start of the DEA trial.

 

[Sub_Guy]

I hope that trade was Postal Clerk, I couldn't imagine another NCM trade worth leaving for.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Bos'n  :nod:

 

[peterpan]

I have known a guy that took 6 years to get, but again that is an extreme case, most guys are about 9 moths to about 18-22 give or take. Never give up though!

 

[Habs]

Apologies for this if it annoys any of you...

Is there a contract for AESOP? I looked on the MOSID/MOC list and it just says "No VIE". I searched and couldn't find anything.

Thanks.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Are you in the CF now or direct entry?  Contract in CF speak is TOS (Terms of Service).  For AES Op, the TOS Sequence is VIE 5, CE 5, CE 5, and IE 25. (#s indicate the length in years)

VIE = Variable Initial Engagment  CE = Continuing Engagement  IE25 = Intermediate Engagement 25 year

If you are coming in right off the street, yes the first contract is a VIE 5.  From there, at each TOS offer, you would be given a choice of either a CE of 5 years or the IE 25, and you get to pick the one you sign.  Obviously after 2 CE 5s you would get the IE25 offer.  Your TOS offers are made 12 months before you current TOS expires.

If you are currently serving and looking to OT in to the trade, depending on your current TOS, you *may* have to sign a new TOS because there is a Restricted Release Date/Period (RRD/P).  Basically, you would be restricted from releasing or OTing out of the trade until 3 years after reaching OFP (Operationally Functional Point), which for AES Op is the QL5 qualification and Wings.

If you are already in and can navigate the DIN, refs are ADM (HR-Mil) Instruction 05/05 [RRD/P info for OTs is Para's 19-21].  TOS Sequence is found in Annex A, Appendix 1.  The instr is on the CF Mil Pers Instr site.  2nd ref is CANFORGEN 031/09.

* 05/05 has a few amendments that were not put in to the actual Instr, which are found in CANFORGEN 031/09.

 

[Habs]

Are you in the CF now or direct entry?  Contract in CF speak is TOS (Terms of Service).  For AES Op, the TOS Sequence is VIE 5, CE 5, CE 5, and IE 25. (#s indicate the length in years)

VIE = Variable Initial Engagment  CE = Continuing Engagement  IE25 = Intermediate Engagement 25 year

If you are coming in right off the street, yes the first contract is a VIE 5.  From there, at each TOS offer, you would be given a choice of either a CE of 5 years or the IE 25, and you get to pick the one you sign.  Obviously after 2 CE 5s you would get the IE25 offer.  Your TOS offers are made 12 months before you current TOS expires.

If you are currently serving and looking to OT in to the trade, depending on your current TOS, you *may* have to sign a new TOS because there is a Restricted Release Date/Period (RRD/P).  Basically, you would be restricted from releasing or OTing out of the trade until 3 years after reaching OFP (Operationally Functional Point), which for AES Op is the QL5 qualification and Wings.

If you are already in and can navigate the DIN, refs are ADM (HR-Mil) Instruction 05/05 [RRD/P info for OTs is Para's 19-21].  TOS Sequence is found in Annex A, Appendix 1.  The instr is on the CF Mil Pers Instr site.  2nd ref is CANFORGEN 031/09.

* 05/05 has a few amendments that were not put in to the actual Instr, which are found in CANFORGEN 031/09.

Ack... thank you. I am currently in the PRes so I'd need to do a CT + OT. The joys of that are immense, I know.

So I'm looking at a contract of at least 5 years. Now, stupid question, and this applies to all trades, but since I'm a PRes I'm not very aware of RegF contracts. Does the contract include the time spent in BMQ/BAEQ/MOQ for AESOP? Or does it start once all of your training is complete, you have your wings, and you're zooming around in the aircraft?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If you get a CT, I will make an 'educated guess' it will be a VIE 5 to start.  Contract would start on your CT date.

 

[Good2Golf]

I hope that trade was Postal Clerk, I couldn't imagine another NCM trade worth leaving for.

Assaulter?

 

[JBP]

Anyone hear anything yet? Any new OT offers out?

I know, probably a tad early but you never know!

 

[Habs]

Two questions I've just thought of.

Are AESOps door gunners on the Griffon, Chinook and the Sea King, or just the Sea King? If so, which trade takes the role of door gunner in the Griffon/Chinook?

Also, AESOp appears to be the only NCM Air Crew trade that you can join directly from the PRes or civvy street. Is this true? If I understand correctly, trades like FE and Nav/TACCO (Not sure what it's called) are specialty trades that you can only remuster to.

Thanks guys.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

AES Op act as door gunner on the Sea King only. Door gunners on the Griffon/chinook were FEs or observers taken from cbt arms trades, but never became a trade per se.
Yes you can join AES Op from either the Res or as direct entry. To become FE one must be either AVN or AVS first.  Navs now called ACSO are Officer trades.

 

[Loachman]

FEs man the door gun on their side of the Griffon. The gunner on the other side is usually a Cbt Arms guy on loan for a given op or high-readiness period.