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Aircrew Selection/ACS (Merged)

I think preparation is important. Not only to get your brain accustomed to the mental activity without the use of pen and paper, but to be able to say to yourself, whatever the outcome, 'I prepared to the best of my ability'. Prep helps confidence going into the test, and, if unsuccessful, helps close that chapter without regret. You gave it your all, and thats the most you can ask of yourself.

As stated before, the best piece of advice you are going to get on this forum is to expect to be overwhelmed. Realize that people have gone through, felt like they were failing, continued to give it their best, and were surprised they passed. Dont give up when you missed your call sign, when you failed to cancel a diamond, forget a numerical code, or had no idea which plane changed direction to the west. Focus on the task at hand, not your prior perceived level of performance.

And, if successful, dont be arrognant or smug about. Be respectful of the other people there, still processing that they didnt meet the standard of their preferred occupation. For many people, ACS is their 'make it or break it' moment. Keep the excitement, and in many cases, the surprise that you passed, contained until you get back to the hotel room. Then you can do a cartwheel and realize, in motion, that the room is too small, before slamming into the wall.  :nod:
 
Roger123 said:
And, if successful, dont be arrognant or smug about. Be respectful of the other people there, still processing that they didnt meet the standard of their preferred occupation. For many people, ACS is their 'make it or break it' moment. Keep the excitement, and in many cases, the surprise that you passed, contained until you get back to the hotel room. Then you can do a cartwheel and realize, in motion, that the room is too small, before slamming into the wall.  :nod:


This. When you go to Toronto for the medical after passing the test you can all have a fancy dinner together to celebrate. Prior to that, be aware that 80% of people probably just were dealt their first major "No" of their life at that point.
 
Thank you for the words of encouragement.

This is really the main thing that is stressing me out, as the only thing I've ever really wanted to be since my childhood is a pilot in the air force. It would be incredibly devastating, even though you can try again after a year.


Here's one issue though, I think that no matter how much you prepare you still cannot prep enough cause you will always feel like you could have done that one extra problem, that one extra practice question that could have given you the edge.


Now, I'm practicing more of the spatial side of things, and I am doing kind of terrible on them. Like on the CFAT trainer app, for example. Out of 20, I usually get around 13-15 out of 20 questions right. I'm just trying to visualize the shape and the sides in my head but I do mess up frequently.

Is there a trick to this that can help improve my score?
 
AliTheAce said:
Here's one issue though, I think that no matter how much you prepare you still cannot prep enough cause you will always feel like you could have done that one extra problem, that one extra practice question that could have given you the edge.

Logic seems to be an incomplete solution to an emotional/ personal issue, but take the following for what its worth. We all have our ceilings in different domains, such as our ability to run 5km in a given amount of time, or our ability to reduce our time on dst and fuel consumption calculations while maintaining accuracy. The graph of performance versus training ( performance on y axis and training on x ) becomes an upward sloping, concave graph ( the slope of the graph or the derivative of the function decreases for increases in training). The differential increase in performance for an given increase in training becomes less and less as training increases. We know this is true in running. You get to a point where you are substantially increasing the risk of injury and/or inability to recover for race day.
    The debate seems to be whether such an aforementioned graph above ( where performance is ACS performance and training in lumosity, brain training sites, etc.) even exists. That is, whether training on such sites has a positive result on performance. Me personally, I think it does, but the effect is marginal. For DST calculations and ACS DST calculations and mental math, the relationship is strong.
    The point is, there is such a thing as too much. Your brain needs time to unwind and relax. After a given level of consistent training, you cannot expect further increases to have significant or any effect. On the contrary, you can burn out mentally and negatively affect performance.
    I find that running, going out with friends, and exercising as effect ways to reduce burn out and restart fresh.

Anyhow, good luck with your preparations.




 
Roger123 said:
Logic seems to be an incomplete solution to an emotional/ personal issue, but take the following for what its worth. We all have our ceilings in different domains, such as our ability to run 5km in a given amount of time, or our ability to reduce our time on dst and fuel consumption calculations while maintaining accuracy. The graph of performance versus training ( performance on y axis and training on x ) becomes an upward sloping, concave graph ( the slope of the graph or the derivative of the function decreases for increases in training). The differential increase in performance for an given increase in training becomes less and less as training increases. We know this is true in running. You get to a point where you are substantially increasing the risk of injury and/or inability to recover for race day.
    The debate seems to be whether such an aforementioned graph above ( where performance is ACS performance and training in lumosity, brain training sites, etc.) even exists. That is, whether training on such sites has a positive result on performance. Me personally, I think it does, but the effect is marginal. For DST calculations and ACS DST calculations and mental math, the relationship is strong.
    The point is, there is such a thing as too much. Your brain needs time to unwind and relax. After a given level of consistent training, you cannot expect further increases to have significant or any effect. On the contrary, you can burn out mentally and negatively affect performance.
    I find that running, going out with friends, and exercising as effect ways to reduce burn out and restart fresh.

Anyhow, good luck with your preparations.

Thank you, I currently have been drilling myself constantly on practice and studying, so that might be one reason I feel that way.

I do love road cycling, guess I'll hit the road soon when my jacket comes in :)
 
Ali.
The answer is no. You can not really do much about it
.
People's brains are wired differently and some people are better at different skills.
You are born with ..( Or possibly learned at age 2 -6 ) spacial ability 3D and visual skills.
 
Roger123 said:
The graph of performance versus training ( performance on y axis and training on x ) becomes an upward sloping, concave graph ( the slope of the graph or the derivative of the function decreases for increases in training). The differential increase in performance for an given increase in training becomes less and less as training increases.

This is what economists call "diminishing returns"  ;D
 
Not a lot of time available to be on here of late, so one big response to multiple posts follows:

Roger123 said:
When you went through Loachman, was it just the CAPSS selection system. Was there any other written tests required for pilot selection at ACS?

CAPSS (The Canadian Association of Pregnancy Support Services, Caribbean Association of Principals of Secondary Schools, Community Action Plan for Seismic Safety, Columnar Alteration with Prominent apical Snouts and Secretions - finally: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/p010363.pdf and http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/cf-aircrew-selection-centre.page but still no photographs of the beast)?

Hah!

Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_Trainer in a round room with a landscape painted on the walls. It only yawed and seemed pretty lame and pointless.

The photos in the second link look very modern in comparison to what I remember of ASC in Downsview. Definitely last century rather than almost the previous one.

And, yes, written tests, and a numerical sequence on tape (add the first number called out to the second number called out, state the sum, and the second number to the sum, state that sum, and keep going; I think that the speed may have gradually increased during the process) and the afore-mentioned EEG.

Pre-flight said:
I think at that time the ACS pass rate was higher and the PFT pass rate was much lower.

It seems they use the ACS to weed more people before they start the training process, and those that go on to PFT have pass rates in the 80% range  (based on talking to about a half dozen guys that recently passed PFT, that's the pass rates in their classes. Most of the failures are people that weren't really cut out for it mechanically or had other personal issues).

I no longer recall the ACS pass rate, largely due to a multi-year period of fast living in Moose Jaw, Portage, Petawawa, and Lahr plus the places visited during those times (much of which is a fuzzy blur, but what I remember of it all was great fun; don't try any of those things today), but the failure rate during Primary was about thirty percent on all but the 01 course of each year, which was about fifty percent.

No official reason or theory was given for the higher 01 course rate. I have always believed that it was due to the fact that instructing on the Musketeer in Portage was the least-popular flying posting in the whole CF, the bulk of the pipeliner instructors were RMC grads with dashed jet-jockey-knight-of-the-skies dreams as opposed to DEO or OCTP  guys (I'm not sure if that was just the way that the posting plot worked out each year of if successive career managers didn't like them), and they'd just returned to the depth of a prairie winter (before our climate began returning to normal) in a place with no available women of quality (Officer and a Gentleman without the fancy uniforms, sound track, and decent writing) and the daily grind of doing the same thing endlessly in a very boring aeroplane after spending Christmas holidays on pristine, exotic, bikini-covered beaches. I'd not accuse any of them of actively taking their frustrations out on students, but their enthusiasm and morale was certainly most likely more lacking January/February than at any other time of the year.

I was on an 01 course, but had a mature, married, and experienced instructor with at least one Tracker tour, and possibly on another machine or two. In that, I was very lucky.

Portage was viewed more as the "real" selection course and not somewhere where real training took place (I found that very little was directly transferrable to Moose Jaw and the Tutor) - and hence was also known as the Nav Selection Centre.

The first trial course with civilian instructors and only ten students - all CT people and, I think, all Captains - had a one-hundred-percent pass rate. Student maturity probably had a lot to do with that, but the instructors competed for those jobs and would, naturally, have put more effort and enthusiasm into them.

I am not a fan of civilianization, but it does seem to have benefits in some places.

mt.chep said:
I am stoked and prepared to obliterate the ASC .... I will be prepared to set course records.

Said no thousands of people who did not get through ever.

"Confidence" and "Cockiness" begin with the same two letters. There endeth the comparison.

Pre-flight said:
This is probably THE key piece of info I'd pass on to anyone looking to do the ACS. Each part takes probably 15 minutes and gets more and more challenging until it ends. Essentially everyone will get overwhelmed and fail as the section approaches the end. If you feel like you are sinking towards the end of each section, do not let it bother you. That's normal. All that matters is how long you were able to succeed until you were overwhelmed, and how well you can start the next part. Don't let stress carry from the end of one section to the next, you are probably doing better than you think.

Key.

After every single test, everybody would discuss how they thought that they did. "Strangely", none of the ones who answered every question made it through, no matter how much they thought that they aced each such test. A smaller number of correct answers outweighed a large number of incorrect ones. Quality counts. Mistakes can kill. Problem with a question? Move on, and come back to it if time permits. Don't keep thinking about it in the background. Just let it go. That was critical in the tape test that I mentioned. Nobody could keep that up indefinitely. Miss a response? Take a breath, and begin again with the next two numbers called. Don't get flustered.

This carries over into real flying.

I know of several people who focussed on relatively trivial distractions in their cockpits rather than the bigger picture around them and thumped in. I've been at some of the crash sites, charred bodies still present. "The first thing to do in any emergency is to wind one's watch" (or something equivalent given the lack of windable watches today) - ie, suck back, breathe, and don't stop aviating, navigating, and communicating, in that order.

Roger123 said:
As stated before, the best piece of advice you are going to get on this forum is to expect to be overwhelmed. Realize that people have gone through, felt like they were failing, continued to give it their best, and were surprised they passed. Dont give up when you missed your call sign, when you failed to cancel a diamond, forget a numerical code, or had no idea which plane changed direction to the west. Focus on the task at hand, not your prior perceived level of performance.

As perfect advice as you will ever receive.

Roger123 said:
And, if successful, dont be arrognant or smug about.

There or anywhere else. Such only increases the number of people who will laugh at you when the inevitable happens, and the duration and volume of the laughter.

Roger123 said:
Then you can do a cartwheel and realize, in motion, that the room is too small, before slamming into the wall.

Snort.

Personal, or observed, experience...?

All of this is dated, of course, but basic principles seldom change.
 
Just wanted to let you know that i did the asc and there is no tape test but from your description, i think they replaced it with another different test

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Question regarding the medical portion of ACS, anyone have experience with nasal congestion and dealing with aircrew medical standards? I know for the fast air guys it poses a significant hazard, not sure if this is because of G forces or if it's strictly a result of not being 100% healthy to deal with pressure variations.
 
cld617 said:
Question regarding the medical portion of ACS, anyone have experience with nasal congestion and dealing with aircrew medical standards? I know for the fast air guys it poses a significant hazard, not sure if this is because of G forces or if it's strictly a result of not being 100% healthy to deal with pressure variations.

Medical entry standard is the same across the board. This is a question only a flight surgeon can answer.
 
Guess I'm waking up this thread again, haha.

After constant practice on the Distance Speed Time calculations, I have started to improve quite a lot in the questions, both in terms of accuracy and speed.

I usually get around 8 - 9 out of 10 right on the speeddistancetime.info website, but that's because I usually leave one question blank, just for the sake of getting a better time.

I average between 28 and 13 seconds per question quite frequently. Is that considered good, or should I focus on improving so my timing is more consistent?

I think I'll take a break from the DST portion and do some actual flight simming + multitasking during that, plus some more spatial reasoning.


I use a simulator called Falcon BMS, (look it up if you don't know). which is essentially a full-scale F-16 simulator, with perfectly modeled avionics and weapon systems. If I practice the sim, and some of the aircraft operation tasks, like employing weapons while flying and keeping track of multiple objects, would that help increase my mental capacity in terms of multitasking and hand-eye coordination? I'm also aiming to finish an aerial refueling in-game, which at this point is extremely difficult with a broken joystick, so I'm using a controller. Would all this help improve my chances of success with the mentioned aptitudes, or should I just focus mainly on math and actual spatial-reasoning questions?

 
For the dst...its only part of the exam. If you are doing well then great. It will also help for the math section.

For the rest of the exam, as mentioned, there is not a ton you can do to practice. You should make sure to look at the information they gave you to have an idea what the tests look like. A lot of it doesnt have much to practice for. That doesnt mean dont try to multitask/ dont practice flying you do you. That being said there is a lot of raw aptitude that gets tested.

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Hey AliTheAce!

I wrote aircrew selection last week and just wanted to give you a heads up on some things. The SDT that you've been doing should help a lot, I tried to aim to get 9/10 right each time and average 10-15s per question. As the flight sim goes I didn't use a flight sim at all and I passed for all 3 occupations so I'm not really sure how much of a help that would be. Although with that being said, anything that would help your multi-tasking and hand-eye coordination can't hurt. Other than that I would just say be well rested and enjoy your time in Trenton!
 
AliTheAce said:
Guess I'm waking up this thread again, haha.

After constant practice on the Distance Speed Time calculations, I have started to improve quite a lot in the questions, both in terms of accuracy and speed.

I usually get around 8 - 9 out of 10 right on the speeddistancetime.info website, but that's because I usually leave one question blank, just for the sake of getting a better time.

I average between 28 and 13 seconds per question quite frequently. Is that considered good, or should I focus on improving so my timing is more consistent?

I think I'll take a break from the DST portion and do some actual flight simming + multitasking during that, plus some more spatial reasoning.


I use a simulator called Falcon BMS, (look it up if you don't know). which is essentially a full-scale F-16 simulator, with perfectly modeled avionics and weapon systems. If I practice the sim, and some of the aircraft operation tasks, like employing weapons while flying and keeping track of multiple objects, would that help increase my mental capacity in terms of multitasking and hand-eye coordination? I'm also aiming to finish an aerial refueling in-game, which at this point is extremely difficult with a broken joystick, so I'm using a controller. Would all this help improve my chances of success with the mentioned aptitudes, or should I just focus mainly on math and actual spatial-reasoning questions?

Don't bother with the flight sim, there's very little it will help with and it's more likely to give you bad habits. Try something else like driving and having a friend ask you math questions, time distance questions, give you delayed directions (take the 4th left, at 5:37 take the first right), and have them give you 5 or 6 digit numbers to remember and ask you the numbers 3-5 minutes later.
 
Also dont forget, when you do take a test, that you aren't allowed to share with the public what is on the test. Only what is given in the guide is meant to be public :)

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xCal said:
Hey AliTheAce!

I wrote aircrew selection last week and just wanted to give you a heads up on some things. The SDT that you've been doing should help a lot, I tried to aim to get 9/10 right each time and average 10-15s per question. As the flight sim goes I didn't use a flight sim at all and I passed for all 3 occupations so I'm not really sure how much of a help that would be. Although with that being said, anything that would help your multi-tasking and hand-eye coordination can't hurt. Other than that I would just say be well rested and enjoy your time in Trenton!

Good day, thank you for this information.

Were you aiming for 10-15s per question on strictly the Time distance speed? or the fuel questions as well? If not the fuel questions as well were you doing those using mental math only? And what was your time on those?

Thank you.
 
Unfortunately I did not pass for Pilot, was offered ACSO however. Retrospectively, the most important tests for Pilot are on the 2nd day, and involve instrument comprehension. You are offered two times to practice the questions in the span of two minutes, in hindsight, those two minutes of extra practice during the exam can make the difference between qualifying for Pilot or not.
I will be moving on to other opportunities.
Good luck to anyone in the future.
 
ridsteram said:
Good day, thank you for this information.

Were you aiming for 10-15s per question on strictly the Time distance speed? or the fuel questions as well? If not the fuel questions as well were you doing those using mental math only? And what was your time on those?

Thank you.

I aimed for 10-15s per question strictly on the SDT questions, and for the fuel consumption I would allow ~30 seconds. And yes the fuel consumption is all mental math as well. And as per what mt.chep said, the most important tests are NOT on the second day. You need to get a certain score on each individual test as well as a score for the overall test to get pilot, focus equally on every test for both days because they all matter.
 
mt.chep said:
Retrospectively, the most important tests for Pilot are on the 2nd day, and involve instrument comprehension.

Absolutely not  :tsktsk:. Some tests are pilot specific while other tests are included in the evaluation of all three occupations. Even though I sat the test in late Feb. 17, I do not know which tests correspond to which occupation. Taking an educated guess, instrument comprehension tests are probably used in the evaluation of pilot. Not to mention the questions which incorporate the applicant operating a joystick, such as the Sensory Motor Apparatus Test, the Rapid Tracking Test and the Auditory Capacity Test. All three of which, when I sat the test, took place on the first day.

gabzo said:
Also dont forget, when you do take a test, that you aren't allowed to share with the public what is on the test. Only what is given in the guide is meant to be public :)

Does this include the score we receive at the end by the selection officer? Are we not allowed to share this piece of information in a public forum?
 
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