All Things Vegetarian/Vegan (merged)

[Fusilier]

Ok neither one of us is that old  ;D.  Regardless, it's nice to see the attempts the CF is making to accomodate religion/personal choice.  Though sometimes I think we go overboard...but that is for another forum...

 

[paracowboy]

speaking as a CQ who has just been blind-sided by a vegetarian, make DAMN sure you give several day's advance notice to your CQ so he can actually plan to meat  your particular needs. Vegetarian meals are in the system, but few Infantry units have any on stock. (We get our vegetables by eating critters that eat plants.) Plan ahead and make things easier for your storesman, he'll appreciate it.

 

[dutchie]

Just to point out that the majority of the veggie IMPs (as listed in a previous post) contain eggs or egg whites, as most are pastas of some kind. The fella that originally asked about this is a lacto-vegetarian (consumes milk products, but not eggs), so he's very limited in the 'Freddy Chef' IMPs, but may have better luck with locally purchased ones (as mentioned - give lots of notice). Now, if he was a ovo-lacto vegetarian (consumes eggs and milk products), he's more or less good to go on the regular IMPs (again - give lots of notice, unless you like starving).

 

[aesop081]

Just to point out that the majority of the veggie IMPs (as listed in a previous post) contain eggs or egg whites, as most are pastas of some kind. The fella that originally asked about this is a lacto-vegetarian (consumes milk products, but not eggs), so he's very limited in the 'Freddy Chef' IMPs, but may have better luck with locally purchased ones (as mentioned - give lots of notice). Now, if he was a ovo-lacto vegetarian (consumes eggs and milk products), he's more or less good to go on the regular IMPs (again - give lots of notice, unless you like starving).

For the love of everything that is good and pure in this world....how the hell is the supply system supposed to keep this shit straight ?

 

[dutchie]

That my friend, is the rub. I guess it's up to the member to make sure he (or she) is prepared. In this case, that means that he/she has to ensure that the CQ knows exactly what he/she will eat. Failure to be clear will result in having to make a tough choice - be effective or stick to your dietary restraints.

I'm glad I like my spot on top of the food chain.

 

[TCBF]

"Subject: [COLUMN] Yes, we need to hunt

http://www.tbsource.com/tbSPORTS/index.asp?cid=70300

tbSPORTS

Yes, we need to hunt

Mick Bohonis - Outdoor Life
Web Posted: 10/1/2004 9:48:10 AM


Dr. Mark Vennu is a medical doctor, nutritionist, sport scientist, and 'non-hunter'. He discusses his diet,  which is a wild game diet. Dr. Vennu eats Stone Age, Pleistocene, foods. A new thing on the market you ask?

Hardly, because this diet has been eaten by humans for 99.5 per cent of our time on earth. According to this nutritionist, our bodies evolved eating a wild game diet. This diet lowers fat and decreases heart disease and cancer. It is a diet that erect walking 'humans' have eaten for seven million years and it
is simple. This doctor is one of many who believe that humans today would be much healthier if they consumed the original hunters' diet. Wild game, fruit and vegetables. Here is a nutritionist telling the world, telling vegetarians, telling all the fast food, junk food eaters, that wild game is the basis for man's
health. He says the 'nutritional quality of such meat (venison, bison, mammoths) differs considerably from that of meat available in the modern North American supermarkets. The latter has much more fat.'

Admit it, we've all had a big jug of water standing by one time or another when the fat is just oozing out of your 3' thick triple by-pass burgers on the bar-be-cue, and then pile on the processed cheese. The ensuing grease fire would make any pyromaniac jealous.

Not only is there more fat in domesticated animals, its composition is different. Wild game contains over five times more polyunsaturated fat per gram than is found in domestic livestock. The fat in wild game meat contains one polyunsaturated fatty acid that helps to reduce arteriosclerosis (heart attacks). Wild game helps to reduce clogged arteries. Doctors have shown that the Paleolithic diet differed significantly from what we humans eat today.

So what does all of this mean you ask? It is quite simple. Wild game, fruits and vegetables provided early hunters with lots of protein, adequate carbohydrates, very low fats, more polyunsaturated fats, lots of
fiber, much less sodium, and plenty of calcium. This is without eating diary products, which, didn't evolve until 4000 years ago. And if modern day humans eat wild game, they will get the same benefits.

Because Paleolithic human beings consumed a very high amount of meat, they ingested a relatively high amount of cholesterol. This was offset by the low fat in their diet. Wild game meat has substantially less fat than domesticated animals.
Anyway you slice it , a wild game diet is important for man today. Dr Eaton, Dr. Vennu, and a slate full of other doctors and nutritionists now believe that our nutritional diet requirements were established in prehistoric times when much of the diet was wild game.

Man evolved eating wild game and genetically we have changed only 1.6 percent over the past six to seven million years. So at a time when the antis continually tell anyone who will listen that 'modern man' has somehow changed in the last 50 years and that we do not need to hunt for meat, are in La La land.

A rapidly growing group of nutritionists and dietary experts are saying wild game SHOULD BE in our diet.

This 'Flintstone Diet' idea creates a problem for the antis who say that we humans can get meat in our diets without hunting. But if it is wild game that provides the best nutrition and health benefits, then hello, hunting may be the politically correct thing to do. Did I say politically correct? Yeah right! Hunting politically correct? Are all the BMW driving, leather wearing, Golden Horseshoe Citidiots ready for this?

The fact that a wild game diet is good for us should come as no surprise. When you realize that humans have been immersed in the woods for millions of years it seems logical that man does need to hunt. We've evolved as hunters for over seven million years, but the antis would have society believe that some dramatic change has happened to humans in recent years and thus, hunting is bad for us. It is now hunting season, and I will guarantee you that there will be loads of moose hunters heading for their favorite spots pursuing the Monarch of the north. The elusive swamp donkey! Good luck."

 

[paracowboy]

For the love of everything that is good and pure in this world....how the heck is the supply system supposed to keep this crap straight ?

no insult intended to anyone who has the sort of delusion that animals have rights but, I honestly think that vegetarianism should be considered a category, keeping them from deploying. Just having one attached to us for 3 weeks about gave me, the RQMS, and the KO fits trying to feed the troop in question. It puts an unnecessary strain on an already sometimes-shaky supply system (cool! Alliteration!). With enough advance notice (weeks, not days, and certainly not hours  : ) perhaps we can stockpile, but then, it still becomes an issue with haybox meals, and fresh rats. No disrespect intended to their beliefs, and I applaud their willingness to serve, but it's simply another pain when you're trying to ensure that 130 + pers are fed.

Don't get me started on trying to convince a devout young man that he NEEDS to eat at least once a day even during Ramadan. Almost had to hospitalize the youngster. But, I digress. Again. (You guys have to stop me when I get on these tangents, or we'll never get anywhere.)

Bottom line troop, make sure that your Chain of Command, and corresponding Supply System know about your dietary requirements WELL in advance, to lessen heartaches all around. Thus endeth the sermon.

 

[aesop081]

no insult intended to anyone who has the sort of delusion that animals have rights but, I honestly think that vegetarianism should be considered a category, keeping them from deploying. Just having one attached to us for 3 weeks about gave me, the RQMS, and the KO fits trying to feed the troop in question. It puts an unnecessary strain on an already sometimes-shaky supply system (cool! Alliteration!). With enough advance notice (weeks, not days, and certainly not hours   : ) perhaps we can stockpile, but then, it still becomes an issue with haybox meals, and fresh rats. No disrespect intended to their beliefs, and I applaud their willingness to serve, but it's simply another pain when you're trying to ensure that 130 + pers are fed.

Don't get me started on trying to convince a devout young man that he NEEDS to eat at least once a day even during Ramadan. Almost had to hospitalize the youngster. But, I digress. Again. (You guys have to stop me when I get on these tangents, or we'll never get anywhere.)

Bottom line troop, make sure that your Chain of Command, and corresponding Supply System know about your dietary requirements WELL in advance, to lessen heartaches all around. Thus endeth the sermon.

Just so we are clear, i totaly agree with you...even before you said it.  With sufficient advanced notice it is possible to accomodate sldiers who have a medical reason not to eat certain foods.  But what happens in some third-hole country on the other side of the world when the supply system is less than reliable ?  For those soldier that make a personal decision not to eat certain things ( meat for example).......well, sometimes you just may have to suck it up or suffer.

 

[ab00013]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will definitely make sure I let them know way ahead of time that I am a lacto-vegetarian.

Being in the reserves only since last summer I don't really know how the supply system works or how complicated it can be. However, with regards to keeping vegetarians from being deployed, I think that non-vegetarians don't understand how simple it can be to keep us (vegetarians) accommodated. Simple foods that you can get pretty much anywhere in the world such as beans and vegetables, rice, and grains are all we ask for. By the way all of which are non-perishable. Me personally, I'd be happy with a can of beans, a can of vegetables, and some rice for supper  ;D

Anyways, thanks everyone again for you advice. I knew when I joined that I might run into some difficulties being a vegetarian. So far everyone has been very understanding. The acceptance of diversity within the Canadian Forces and Canada in general, is something to be very proud of. This acceptance is what uniquely makes us Canadian.   

 

[paracowboy]

This acceptance is what uniquely makes us Canadian.  

well, no, not really. I've met Brits and Yanks who suffer from the same sort of eating disorder, and they eat pretty well too, thanks to their armies. As for your point about eating foods grown in other nations: You don' get to do dat. We don't eat on the local economy. Ztrictly verboten. So, that's where it becomes an issue on deployments. You don't just stroll downtown and pick up a zucchini burger, or wander into the nearest rice field.

Anyway, this horse is pretty well beaten, so I'm outta here.
Luck.

 

[ab00013]

I've met Brits and Yanks who suffer from the same sort of eating disorder

Wow! I don't even know where to start with that comment. An eating disorder? The recruiting medic said that it was no problem and oddly enough his son is a vegan!

Anyways, without getting into a moral discussion, I will just clarify what I meant by my last posting to make sure people really didn't think I was that ignorant that I would not understand the health reasons for not eating local foods. I know that you can't just go get food from the locals! What I meant was that if the UN and other organizations can distribute food rations such as rice, grains, and beans to people around the world than the Canadian Forces should have no problem giving its soldiers the same foods.

Well, just wanted to clarify what I meant.

 

[Dave Mount]

My father at 71 went on a diet similar to the on TCBF and Dr. Vennue talk about.  He lost a crap load of weight in a small amount of time, he went from looking like a healthy man to a feeble old one.  This diet has completely changed his metabolism. Now he eats like a horse and can't put any weight on.  Screwing with things should be done carefully.

 

[Britney Spears]

It seems to me that strictly speaking, Ramadan has enough exceptions which would allow one to eat without breaking the spirit of the rule.

From Wikipedia:

Åžawm or ÅŸiyÄ?m, fasting

Observance of the Siyam involves abstinence from eating, drinking, smoking, sexual intercourse, and other forms of worldly pleasure. This fasting is ordained in the Qur'an, and is observed by devout Muslims throughout the daylight hours of the 29 or 30 days of the lunar month of Ramadan. There are some exceptions, for example for children, pregnant women, sick Muslims, laborers, and travelers.

Generally speaking none of the religious regulations are designed to actually harm(i.e. hospitalize) the adherent or make daily life needlessly burdensome. THis is true of all major religions, they can't survive if they ask too much of the believers.

 

[ab00013]

It seems to me that strictly speaking, Ramadan has enough exceptions which would allow one to eat without breaking the spirit of the rule.

You're right Ramadan allows Muslims to eat only when the sun is down. I am not Muslim but I went to school with some Muslims and straight from the Holy Quran it states:

"One may eat and drink at any time during the night until you can plainly distinguish a white thread from a black thread by the daylight: then keep the fast until night"

Surely the Canadian Forces could accomodate this. Simply have the soldier have their food earlier in the morning when the sun is still down or later at night.  All it takes is being a little innovative 

 

[paracowboy]

You're right Ramadan allows Muslims to eat only when the sun is down. I am not Muslim but I went to school with some Muslims and straight from the Holy Quran it states:

"One may eat and drink at any time during the night until you can plainly distinguish a white thread from a black thread by the daylight: then keep the fast until night"

Surely the Canadian Forces could accomodate this. Simply have the soldier have their food earlier in the morning when the sun is still down or later at night.   All it takes is being a little innovative  

first: lighten up, Francis. It was a joke! Next time, I'll be more careful about puttin' one of those smiley face thingies in. You wanna live on grass and hay, you go right ahead! More animal flesh for me!  ;D
Second: yes, Ramadan allows adherents to Islam to eat before and after sunrise. But, a Reg Force Infantry Battle School is not the place to try and follow any sort of dietary restrictions. You need a lot of calories to get through an average day, more when you're playing in the woods. You burn a lot of calories and ain't gettin' much sleep. (Or at least that's how it used to be). As for innovation, forget it. That is not the purpose of Battle School. It is a mass-production machine designed to turn civilian boys into soldiers. As such, it has built-in cogs that must be allowed to turn in their own time or the machine breaks down. Between patrolling, digging, radio watch, stove watch, and Stand-To's, there ain't a lot of time for 'innovation'. Add to that the fact that the youngster in question was a convert (therefore not necessarily educated in his new-found faith, and also fairly fanatical as most converts are) and already under considerable stress, and he just wasn't eating. By sundown, all he wanted to do was sleep. So, he'd skip a meal. Then, he'd be woken up twice throughout the night so, he'd try to squeeze in an extra couple winks and would skip breakfast. All in all, it wasn't a good time for him until the boys in his section convinced him that Allah would understand if he ate.  :
The CF rules at 'innovation'. It's how we keep our vehicles rollin' and flyin'. But this is The Army. We do things in a certain way for certain reasons, and the Individual is expendable. Bottom line. You give to The Army, and whenever possible or rather, practicable, The Army will attempt to give back. That's why it's called Service.
There's a lesson there for you as well. If the Army can't meat (can't resist) your dietary requirements at times, you may have to simply place your convictions on hold, and eat a ham sammich once in a while. We all make sacrifices. And hey, I'm more than willing to eat your share of the bacon. I'm good that way. 
Anyway, your question was answered and I can't think of any more ways to harass you, so luck to you on your quest, and I'm gonna go find someone else to tease. You got any more questions I can help with, send a pm.

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

Hello,

First off I searched the site and couldn't find any info that I'm looking for. I am lacto-vegetarian which means I don't eat seafood, meat, or eggs. I am wondering which of the IMPs are vegetarian because I just finished my BMQ course and was told, to their knowledge, that the only one I could eat was Mac & Cheese, which I am really hoping is wrong

If anyone knows it would be greatly appreciated. I have SQ and BIQ in the summer so I think it might be helpful for me to know which ones I could eat.

Thanks!!

    You still can't convince me that they are food, let alone pick a food group.  I mean really, you can use the chicklets to engrave your initiallys on your APC.  Thats not food.  If they gave you one that consisted only of veggies, it would still look like something that drowned in 1945, and was embalmed in early 68. 

 

[TCBF]

"My father at 71 went on a diet similar to the on TCBF and Dr. Vennue talk about."

- Sorry, I wasn't aware wild game was a fad diet, per se.  Someone trying to make a fast buck would have to screw it up to actually hurt people.  As an example, even though an arctic wild fish/seal/caribou diet is high protein, it will pile on the muscle density rather than do the Karen Carpenter thing.

Religion and rations: The CF is far more accomodating to our religious minorities than other armies are to those religions where they are the majority.  Iran and Iraq fought an eight year war.. You can bet some accomodations were made due to combat and military necessity.

 

[Manimal]

i hope they are wrong too, because most cheese (and all boxed mac and cheese) has rennet in it, and some have lipase, these produces come from cow blood, and stomach enzymes. they are not in a vegetarian diet. sorry

 

[JasonH]

I have just pulled out of my desk drawer a "My Own Meal" Ration.  It has an entre in a 'bag in a box' and an accessory pack in a see through plastic bag. This is a commercial USA product, and is issued in the Canadian system as well.  Certified Halal and Kosher.  It is not an IMP or an MRE.  But, there are vegetarian MREs. The 'Black Bean and Rice Burito' comes to mind.  I ate four in one day, once.  The side dish was Mexican Rice.  They were great.  We had to open all of the Coyote hatches.  Crew wouldn't talk to me.

Ahaha evil basterd  >

 

[neuromancer]

Hello,

I've been a Vegan for the past little while, and I'm interested in joining the CF Full-Time.
I have my written test, medical, and physical tests booked for August 11th (3 tests in one day!)

Im a little worried that I wont be able to keep my diet as a member of the CF and I'll
just be told what to eat, etc, etc, etc.

Are there any Vegans in the CF? What are my options for food?

I dont have any reason for being vegan other than personal choice, I just dont want
cancer/heart disease/ etc, etc, and feel that I can be perfectly healthy eating a
complete vegan diet.

Thanks!