An apology to all Canadians
- Thread starter Padraig OCinnead
- Start date
Problem with your little spiel is you got it all wrong.
"...The problem in Canada is not that some Conservative canadians have beliefs AND ARE WILLING TO LET A MAJORITY OF CANADIANS DECIDE IF THEY AGREE WITH THEM..."
you have just described a democracy
The left wing did not muster an army and take control of the country. They were elected. Which makes you the minority vote in a democracy, which means your opinion does not really matter. To the best of my knowledge there is no ideology out there where everybody wins. Somebody is a loser, and this election, that person was you. The original post of mine was meant to point out the fact that you lost the election, and that the majority of 60% of Canadians were not dragged to the voting booth and forced to vote Liberal. The Conservative message was out there, as was your opinion, it's just that nobody cared about it.
I realize this sounds like a smart-ass post, not intended to me, merely argumentative.
"...The problem in Canada is not that some Conservative canadians have beliefs AND ARE WILLING TO LET A MAJORITY OF CANADIANS DECIDE IF THEY AGREE WITH THEM..."
you have just described a democracy
The left wing did not muster an army and take control of the country. They were elected. Which makes you the minority vote in a democracy, which means your opinion does not really matter. To the best of my knowledge there is no ideology out there where everybody wins. Somebody is a loser, and this election, that person was you. The original post of mine was meant to point out the fact that you lost the election, and that the majority of 60% of Canadians were not dragged to the voting booth and forced to vote Liberal. The Conservative message was out there, as was your opinion, it's just that nobody cared about it.
I realize this sounds like a smart-ass post, not intended to me, merely argumentative.
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nULL said:
Most people on this board seem to be right of center, most seemed pissed off over the election, and claim that the general public are lemmings, twits, or whatever other derogatory word they think of to try and vent their anger.
Making such profound generalized accusations doesn't reflect well upon ones self. Consider the statement quoted above from nULL.
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nULL said:
Hmm, where to begin.
First, thats an awful way to look at a democracy. "Only the Winner's opinion matters". Obviously if that was the case, we may as well do away with the House of Commons, and just let Paul Martin decide everything on his own.
Also, I hate to burst your bubble, but the majority of 60% of Canadians that went to the polls didn't vote Liberal, as you so candidly suggest. The majority of voters voted for something other than Liberal, which does say something. Obviously you can take liberties with the defnition of majority (i.e. "The larger group"), but with our political system and the terms used in it, this is only a method of misrepresenting the facts.
Finally, if you look at the popular vote, and the representation, you'll note that "nobody" is a rather significant portion of Canada.
P.S. Even though you add the "non-smart-ass" disclaimer, that doesn't make your post so. The tone and nature of your post suggests that you wanted the liberals to win, and are quite happy to gloat about this. Go ahead and do so, I don't care, but don't pretend you wrote something other than what you did. An argumentative post has far more substance.
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Kirkhill,
It works both ways, I've heard enough banter against gay people from the Conservative camp (which I feel is completely inappropriate for a political doctrine) to know that consideration is the last thing to be found in that dirty game of politics. It just looks like the left-wing crowd played the pipes a little better this time around. Look at Conservative Diefenbaker's anti-American campaign when his minority was chucked out of Parliament, just as deceitful and ridiculous.
I'm not following the logic of your rant here. nULL was simply pointing out that Canadian's voted freely and fairly.
There are radicals on both sides. If all we have imposed on us is the penalty of paying more tax money to put in the pockets of others, than I think we are okay for now. I don't think there is any conspiracy going on here.
I'd say those outspoken Conservatives who want to use the not-with-standing-clause to push forward a Christian agenda (White), or compare abortion to the beheading of Nick Berg (Gallant). I voted Conservative, but I came away with a bit of an ugly feeling of who also happened to be very vocally throwing their lot in with me.
To be honest, I'd be no more at ease voting for the New Democrats, who refused to rebuke a candidate that authored anti-semite garbage. Or the Liberals, who have been caught doing every unethical thing in the book. But please don't reduce Canada to Iran.
Goober,
Yes, you're safe in assuming that.
I stand behind my statement that the general population is quite ignorant on most matters of the state. You can look at the peacekeeping myth that surrounds the Canadian Military (and I defy you to prove that myth). This extends into most other areas of the government; one only has to look at the figures to figure it out. Look at the common myths of health care, foreign policy, social spending, cronyism, and taxation. What pisses me off is the politicians failure to address these areas with serious debate during this election (The Greens did it, Harper did it to some extent, until he was booed off the stage was scare tactics). What pisses me off even more is that citzens of Canada are too lazy or too stupid to bother looking into these things to any extent to ensure that their votes counted.
This vote was the lowest turnout ever. Either people were too lazy to exercise their sovereign estate, which means they are typical spoiled Canadians, or that they disdain politics to the degree of apathy, which I think is quite unhealthy. Obviously, whoever is left to vote in Canada for the most part is content to give the country over to socialist bureaucrats administering a handout monster and union bosses who seek to subjugate the economy. Don't come complaining to me when the trough dries up and you're in the hand-out lineup.
Hoser,
I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that if the Conservatives one. Remember the golden principle of majority rules? That was central to the idea of peace, order, and good government; the winners of Majority governments are able to effectively move forward with their Mandate. Obviously, this isn't the case, since a minority government is in place; the opinions of others will matter.
You're right, but 55% voted for what I feel was a left-of-center government, while another 13% voted for a separatist party run by a former Communist party member. It looks like the majority has spoken to which way they want things to go.
I refuse to be angry at Canada's democracy for not electing a Conservative Government. They only had 30% of the popular vote. I may be displeased with an ignorant electorate that votes emotionally rather than rationally (Jean Chretien said that), and I may be disgusted with tactics that have no place in public discourse (from ALL sides). However, this is the nature of the beast. The system allows for things like this, so they happen. I willingly accept that most Canadians are willing to throw their fate to socialist ideologues, fear mongering demagogues, and separatist traitors, all for the sake of denying the floor to social regressives. Unfortunately, we who want to honestly do something right (from ALL parties) are caught in the middle of it.
That's the way the system works. We must be doing something right to have almost 140 years of a continuous peaceful, liberal democratic government. I think the system could be fixed as well, but it's far from shot.
Am I a smart-ass too?
All in all, I think we are overreacting here. It is a minority government. We won't be foisted into communes or forced to take part in a gay pride parade tomorrow. As well, we won't be forced to attend Church. Canada's democracy, although not as healthy as it could and should be, is still there. Almost two years ago, I had to spend the day checking on polling stations and party headquarters to make sure Bosnians didn't kill each other over their first National Election. I'm glad I don't have to do that here.
The demagoguery that persists in todays democracy is the price we pay. It was prevalent in Athens where crowds could be incited to imprison their leaders. Canadian politics has had low and high turnouts, good and bad governments, and good and bad policies. I guarantee you these same arguments were being chucked around when Tommy Douglas come to Ottawa, yet the standard of living is much higher than it was then. As long as their isn't catastrophe (I haven't seen one in our history yet) I'm sure we'll be around to argue about these same things in the next election.
Anyways, I am going to bed...without having to worry about someone who hates me shelling my neighbourhood.
Don't apologize, you're allowed to be discontented, this is a democracy after all... ;D
It works both ways, I've heard enough banter against gay people from the Conservative camp (which I feel is completely inappropriate for a political doctrine) to know that consideration is the last thing to be found in that dirty game of politics. It just looks like the left-wing crowd played the pipes a little better this time around. Look at Conservative Diefenbaker's anti-American campaign when his minority was chucked out of Parliament, just as deceitful and ridiculous.
I'm not following the logic of your rant here. nULL was simply pointing out that Canadian's voted freely and fairly.
There are radicals on both sides. If all we have imposed on us is the penalty of paying more tax money to put in the pockets of others, than I think we are okay for now. I don't think there is any conspiracy going on here.
I'd say those outspoken Conservatives who want to use the not-with-standing-clause to push forward a Christian agenda (White), or compare abortion to the beheading of Nick Berg (Gallant). I voted Conservative, but I came away with a bit of an ugly feeling of who also happened to be very vocally throwing their lot in with me.
To be honest, I'd be no more at ease voting for the New Democrats, who refused to rebuke a candidate that authored anti-semite garbage. Or the Liberals, who have been caught doing every unethical thing in the book. But please don't reduce Canada to Iran.
Goober,
Yes, you're safe in assuming that.
I stand behind my statement that the general population is quite ignorant on most matters of the state. You can look at the peacekeeping myth that surrounds the Canadian Military (and I defy you to prove that myth). This extends into most other areas of the government; one only has to look at the figures to figure it out. Look at the common myths of health care, foreign policy, social spending, cronyism, and taxation. What pisses me off is the politicians failure to address these areas with serious debate during this election (The Greens did it, Harper did it to some extent, until he was booed off the stage was scare tactics). What pisses me off even more is that citzens of Canada are too lazy or too stupid to bother looking into these things to any extent to ensure that their votes counted.
This vote was the lowest turnout ever. Either people were too lazy to exercise their sovereign estate, which means they are typical spoiled Canadians, or that they disdain politics to the degree of apathy, which I think is quite unhealthy. Obviously, whoever is left to vote in Canada for the most part is content to give the country over to socialist bureaucrats administering a handout monster and union bosses who seek to subjugate the economy. Don't come complaining to me when the trough dries up and you're in the hand-out lineup.
Hoser,
I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that if the Conservatives one. Remember the golden principle of majority rules? That was central to the idea of peace, order, and good government; the winners of Majority governments are able to effectively move forward with their Mandate. Obviously, this isn't the case, since a minority government is in place; the opinions of others will matter.
You're right, but 55% voted for what I feel was a left-of-center government, while another 13% voted for a separatist party run by a former Communist party member. It looks like the majority has spoken to which way they want things to go.
I refuse to be angry at Canada's democracy for not electing a Conservative Government. They only had 30% of the popular vote. I may be displeased with an ignorant electorate that votes emotionally rather than rationally (Jean Chretien said that), and I may be disgusted with tactics that have no place in public discourse (from ALL sides). However, this is the nature of the beast. The system allows for things like this, so they happen. I willingly accept that most Canadians are willing to throw their fate to socialist ideologues, fear mongering demagogues, and separatist traitors, all for the sake of denying the floor to social regressives. Unfortunately, we who want to honestly do something right (from ALL parties) are caught in the middle of it.
That's the way the system works. We must be doing something right to have almost 140 years of a continuous peaceful, liberal democratic government. I think the system could be fixed as well, but it's far from shot.
Am I a smart-ass too?
All in all, I think we are overreacting here. It is a minority government. We won't be foisted into communes or forced to take part in a gay pride parade tomorrow. As well, we won't be forced to attend Church. Canada's democracy, although not as healthy as it could and should be, is still there. Almost two years ago, I had to spend the day checking on polling stations and party headquarters to make sure Bosnians didn't kill each other over their first National Election. I'm glad I don't have to do that here.
The demagoguery that persists in todays democracy is the price we pay. It was prevalent in Athens where crowds could be incited to imprison their leaders. Canadian politics has had low and high turnouts, good and bad governments, and good and bad policies. I guarantee you these same arguments were being chucked around when Tommy Douglas come to Ottawa, yet the standard of living is much higher than it was then. As long as their isn't catastrophe (I haven't seen one in our history yet) I'm sure we'll be around to argue about these same things in the next election.
Anyways, I am going to bed...without having to worry about someone who hates me shelling my neighbourhood.
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Infanteer said:
If by that statement you mean most people are ignorant on most matters of the state, then I agree with you fully. I think there should be more focus on education in Canadian politics starting at the junior high level. This would get more people interested as they will be exposed to it at a ripe age.
I think most people who didn't vote would fall under the latter, and I agree, its quite unhealthy. I would add that some people are just too lazy or don't care enough to educate themselves enough to make an informed decision.
[edit] That last sentence is completly redundant (its late.. tired) , its pretty much what you just said in the section I quoted you on. But I'll just leave it in anyway.
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Infanteer said:
True enough, majority rules, but the idea that the losers opinions don't count is not a central idea in majority rules. Majority rules, but everybody gets a say (now if only there more accountability).
And I would be saying that if the Conservatives won, and someone said the same thing. I won't pretend I don't lean a little to the right, but I try not to discriminate when I take offence to things. My true political beliefs are somewhere along the lines of Libertarian, if anything.
Partly my point. He said they don't matter, when quite obviously you agree they do. Had it been a majority government, I wouldn't be so adamant about my point, as the opinions of others matter much less in that situation, but they still allow open debate, and I think that is important (if only more attention was paid to some of the debate, and only if it mattered).
True enough, but I wasn't speaking about which direction they want things to go, and either was null. He stated simply that the majority of Canadians who voted, voted for the Liberal party, which isn't the case. Unless of course you're using a different definition of majority than the rest of the political community, and I don't think thats fair.
I couldn't agree more. I'm not angry in the least, I never expected a Conservative win. I'm quite pleased at the result, because I think it will make for some interesting politics, and restores a little bit of accountability (wishful thinking, perhaps). At the very least, it makes the government work a little harder to do/keep their job, and I don't think that hurts anybody.
For my purposes, I think the most important change in Canada's government occured last December when Chretien stepped down. I think Chretien did a terrible job of running the country, and I think he was an embarassment to our country.
For the record, I don't imagine I could ever vote for an NDP candidate, but I would consider both Liberal and Conservative candidates in any election, depending on the circumstances. My Libertarian beliefs usually wind up putting slightly right of centre, but most definetly moderate on a number of issues. I think economic considerations are what push me over to the right.
Yes. This election, more than anything, has proven to me that democracy is alive and well in our country. I just wish more people would partake in the democracy.
Yes. But I like smart-asses. You're probably one of the more interesting posters on this forum, and I find myself agreeing with you on nearly every count. (Please note: I'm not trying to kiss your ass here, its the truth.)
I just don't like it when people claim a post is argumentative when it appears to be anything but. Perhaps I misread null's intent, but I don't think he came off as being very argumentative.
And yes, I believe I was overreacting.
Lance Wiebe
Sr. Member
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Time for a bit of perspective.
Harper actually just started with his new party. They had no time to sit down and hammer out party policy, they had no time to brief all of the candidates, they didn't have time to set up regional and national councils.
Harper had asked Martin for some time, and , of course, Martin refused. Why allow the enemy to get stronger?
Harper performed a near miracle, winning 99 seats with all of that going against him. If he had another four or five months, he would have got more.
By the way, Martin was not the most frugal finance minister. Government spending did not go down any year that Martin was Finance. Taxes went up, which is how he balanced the books. Especially the non-tax of EI overpayments!
Harper now has time to get organised. Come next electio, watch out!
Harper actually just started with his new party. They had no time to sit down and hammer out party policy, they had no time to brief all of the candidates, they didn't have time to set up regional and national councils.
Harper had asked Martin for some time, and , of course, Martin refused. Why allow the enemy to get stronger?
Harper performed a near miracle, winning 99 seats with all of that going against him. If he had another four or five months, he would have got more.
By the way, Martin was not the most frugal finance minister. Government spending did not go down any year that Martin was Finance. Taxes went up, which is how he balanced the books. Especially the non-tax of EI overpayments!
Harper now has time to get organised. Come next electio, watch out!
M
Military Brat
Guest
There seems to be a growing trend among Canadians to tow the partisan line, we are kind of turning into a carbon copy of the US in that sense, where people blindly vote Liberal or Conservative or NDP or whichever party they might vote for because their parents did it and their grandparents did it.
There were a lot of people who I bet also voted Liberal to "cancel" a Conservative vote. The most absurb thing I've heard yet, "strategic voting". Vote for the darn party you want elected or you'll never get it! Overall, I think most people who voted Liberal stuck with the Liberals because they didn't like the alernatives(NDP and Conservatives, realistically) not because they particularly like the Liberals or their policies. The Liberals portray themselves as socially progressive, while also in support of military spending increases(or at least around election time they are), so they play to all audiences while the NDP is seen as the party in favor of social spending but not as much in favor of military spending. And the Conservatives are seen as far right wing by most, a party that wants to increase military spending but then they also seem to think the Conservatives are anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, that they would have thousands of troops in Iraq(those troops we DON'T have to send to Iraq, due to Liberal spending cuts..hmmm..) and supporting a 2-tier system.
Paying down debt..it's good, but at what cost? Not at the cost of our military, our health care, our education system and every other government department. I find it rather silly that in this time of government cuts there is somewhere available funds for a nice plump salary raise for members of parliament. They make something ridiculous like 135,000 a year, half the time, probably more than that, they aren't even in Ottawa because the House of Commons isn't even in session.
The Liberals smeared Mr.Harper's image from the beginning of the campaign, and I think that really got to the minds of voters. But Harper also disappeared in the last week of the campaign. I didn't see any media scrums in the week before election day, he was hardly even in the news. Layton and Martin were very agressive in attacking their opponents right up to the day of the election and I think that is what stuck with voters, Layton and Martin on the campaign trail while Harper seemed to be nowhere in sight.
But anyhow, I don't think Harper will ever become Prime Minister, too many people see the formation of his party as a PC takeover attempt. A new leader and I think their chances of winning a majority would improve greatly, but that is just my opinion, obviously I'm not an expert.
There were a lot of people who I bet also voted Liberal to "cancel" a Conservative vote. The most absurb thing I've heard yet, "strategic voting". Vote for the darn party you want elected or you'll never get it! Overall, I think most people who voted Liberal stuck with the Liberals because they didn't like the alernatives(NDP and Conservatives, realistically) not because they particularly like the Liberals or their policies. The Liberals portray themselves as socially progressive, while also in support of military spending increases(or at least around election time they are), so they play to all audiences while the NDP is seen as the party in favor of social spending but not as much in favor of military spending. And the Conservatives are seen as far right wing by most, a party that wants to increase military spending but then they also seem to think the Conservatives are anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, that they would have thousands of troops in Iraq(those troops we DON'T have to send to Iraq, due to Liberal spending cuts..hmmm..) and supporting a 2-tier system.
Paying down debt..it's good, but at what cost? Not at the cost of our military, our health care, our education system and every other government department. I find it rather silly that in this time of government cuts there is somewhere available funds for a nice plump salary raise for members of parliament. They make something ridiculous like 135,000 a year, half the time, probably more than that, they aren't even in Ottawa because the House of Commons isn't even in session.
The Liberals smeared Mr.Harper's image from the beginning of the campaign, and I think that really got to the minds of voters. But Harper also disappeared in the last week of the campaign. I didn't see any media scrums in the week before election day, he was hardly even in the news. Layton and Martin were very agressive in attacking their opponents right up to the day of the election and I think that is what stuck with voters, Layton and Martin on the campaign trail while Harper seemed to be nowhere in sight.
But anyhow, I don't think Harper will ever become Prime Minister, too many people see the formation of his party as a PC takeover attempt. A new leader and I think their chances of winning a majority would improve greatly, but that is just my opinion, obviously I'm not an expert.
I voted Conservative to cancel a Liberal vote. So? Strategic voting makes sense. Vote for the party most likely to actually get in power and represent at least some of your interests. While what you said does make sense ("vote for the party you want or you'll never get it!") only one party is actually going to get in and make decisons that affect you.
Also paying debt is incredibly important, especially to the armed forces. Hypothetically years from now, the Liberals badly need cash to pay off a ballooning national debt...which government department could they obliterate completely while not affecting the majority of the people who vote for them.....
For the record, "Paying down debt..it's good, but at what cost?" is probably the greatest quote ever
The cost is money today, or everything tomorrow. Like credit card debt, one must always be vigilant.
Also paying debt is incredibly important, especially to the armed forces. Hypothetically years from now, the Liberals badly need cash to pay off a ballooning national debt...which government department could they obliterate completely while not affecting the majority of the people who vote for them.....
For the record, "Paying down debt..it's good, but at what cost?" is probably the greatest quote ever
The cost is money today, or everything tomorrow. Like credit card debt, one must always be vigilant.
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How much better things look after a good night's sleep.
Good posts Infanteer and Hoser.
It is all about democracy and majority rule, but it is also about respect for the minority opinion.
For me it is also about there being no absolutes. Circumstances today can put me on a different side of the argument than I was yesterday. This is the reason I don't like the rigidity of the Charter enforced by the Supreme Court. Why for me Parliament must always be supreme. Pragmatism over Absolutism - and for me the Charter represents an Absolutist approach. That is ultimately the reason I voted Conservative.
I am a Scots Protestant that married a French Catholic. I believe in a strong military and am willing to tolerate some private health care. She believes in public health care and doesn't support paying down the debt. We both believe in the traditional definition of marriage. She is vehemently opposed to abortion and the death penalty (except when talking about child rapists and mass murderers - then she has second thoughts). I stay out of the abortion debate but believe in the death penalty. She is a centralist. I am a provincialist. At the end of the day we were both reduced to putting one cross on a sheet of paper. At the end of the day we both continue to live with each other. At some point in the future, not exceeding five years, we will do it all again. By that time my views and her views will likely have changed.
Strangely enough this time we both voted conservative. The least of three evils.
Lance, Military Brat and Hoser thanks for injecting some optimism.
To the rest of the board, I will try to refrain from making disparaging comments about EASTERNERS and Torontonians ( a group that includes friends and relatives) if the rest of the board will refrain from characterizing conservatism as a disease that emanates from the West in general and Alberta in particular. This is a ploy that Liberal strategists have been using since Diefenbakers days. This is what has alienated the west.
There are Conservatives all across Canada, just as Liberals and Socialists exist everywhere. And their views overlap.
Good posts Infanteer and Hoser.
It is all about democracy and majority rule, but it is also about respect for the minority opinion.
For me it is also about there being no absolutes. Circumstances today can put me on a different side of the argument than I was yesterday. This is the reason I don't like the rigidity of the Charter enforced by the Supreme Court. Why for me Parliament must always be supreme. Pragmatism over Absolutism - and for me the Charter represents an Absolutist approach. That is ultimately the reason I voted Conservative.
I am a Scots Protestant that married a French Catholic. I believe in a strong military and am willing to tolerate some private health care. She believes in public health care and doesn't support paying down the debt. We both believe in the traditional definition of marriage. She is vehemently opposed to abortion and the death penalty (except when talking about child rapists and mass murderers - then she has second thoughts). I stay out of the abortion debate but believe in the death penalty. She is a centralist. I am a provincialist. At the end of the day we were both reduced to putting one cross on a sheet of paper. At the end of the day we both continue to live with each other. At some point in the future, not exceeding five years, we will do it all again. By that time my views and her views will likely have changed.
Strangely enough this time we both voted conservative. The least of three evils.
Lance, Military Brat and Hoser thanks for injecting some optimism.
To the rest of the board, I will try to refrain from making disparaging comments about EASTERNERS and Torontonians ( a group that includes friends and relatives) if the rest of the board will refrain from characterizing conservatism as a disease that emanates from the West in general and Alberta in particular. This is a ploy that Liberal strategists have been using since Diefenbakers days. This is what has alienated the west.
There are Conservatives all across Canada, just as Liberals and Socialists exist everywhere. And their views overlap.
Military Brat,
You said:
"There seems to be a growing trend among Canadians to tow the partisan line, we are kind of turning into a carbon copy of the US in that sense, where people blindly vote Liberal or Conservative or NDP or whichever party they might vote for because their parents did it and their grandparents did it."
Please do not make generalized statements like this. This is very untrue. I personally have voted Democratic, Republican, Reform Party (Ross Perot) and back Republican again. Lots of U.S. citizens do the same. They are the ones called "Undecided" and who typically sway the election. My parents and grandparents have done the same - we vote on issues, not blind faith in one party. Basically, I have to weigh the issues I'm interested in, see whose offerring the closest to my personal beliefs and vote with that candidate. Then I cross my fingers that the bloody politician will keep his/her word! (Remember "Read My Lips, No New Taxes" - Bush, the elder, 1988)
What's interesting in this forum debate is how much the U.S. and Canadians have the same problems/issues/complaints. It's rather comical and mentally exhausting too because we are going through the same crap down here.
NOTFONDA KERRY!
You said:
"There seems to be a growing trend among Canadians to tow the partisan line, we are kind of turning into a carbon copy of the US in that sense, where people blindly vote Liberal or Conservative or NDP or whichever party they might vote for because their parents did it and their grandparents did it."
Please do not make generalized statements like this. This is very untrue. I personally have voted Democratic, Republican, Reform Party (Ross Perot) and back Republican again. Lots of U.S. citizens do the same. They are the ones called "Undecided" and who typically sway the election. My parents and grandparents have done the same - we vote on issues, not blind faith in one party. Basically, I have to weigh the issues I'm interested in, see whose offerring the closest to my personal beliefs and vote with that candidate. Then I cross my fingers that the bloody politician will keep his/her word! (Remember "Read My Lips, No New Taxes" - Bush, the elder, 1988)
What's interesting in this forum debate is how much the U.S. and Canadians have the same problems/issues/complaints. It's rather comical and mentally exhausting too because we are going through the same crap down here.
NOTFONDA KERRY!
- Reaction score
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I think it is great for a citizen to not support any particular party. I refuse to join any myself; sticking to non-partisan organizations like the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.
Hell, If I could have voted in 1993, I would have voted Liberal as well, considering the Mulroney's mandate was about as effecient as Chretien's. However, I would have been pissed off for doing it, seeing how the Libs backed out on most of their platform.
Hell, If I could have voted in 1993, I would have voted Liberal as well, considering the Mulroney's mandate was about as effecient as Chretien's. However, I would have been pissed off for doing it, seeing how the Libs backed out on most of their platform.
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The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is a great organization, from my limited exposure to them.
I originally happened upon their site while looking up tax rates comparisons for each province. Now I check it every month or so. I have complete intentions of joining once I become a taxpayer again (well, I have been a taxpayer, just severely under-employed, so when I get some cash in my pockets).
I originally happened upon their site while looking up tax rates comparisons for each province. Now I check it every month or so. I have complete intentions of joining once I become a taxpayer again (well, I have been a taxpayer, just severely under-employed, so when I get some cash in my pockets).
- Reaction score
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In the round table galley discussion we had where I work, we decided, on election day, that a PM has to come from The Prairies (Manitoba west to the BC border), the Territories or the Atlantic Provinces. No offense to those not included.
What a shock I was in for when I got home to see how bad it went back home (East)
Ah well, better to have to survive through another Liberal term and have the right to speak out against it than not, eh?
Cheers!
What a shock I was in for when I got home to see how bad it went back home (East)
Ah well, better to have to survive through another Liberal term and have the right to speak out against it than not, eh?
Cheers!
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