Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[NavyShooter]

The number of positions that have become a depth of one is concerning.

The brain trust of experience in the RCN has gone from a deep pool to a much shallower pond. That should be concerning to leadership...

 

[Navy_Pete]

Getting worse as that 'one' retires. Lots of positions have specialized training with no one even in the pipeline for replacements, let alone coordinate a turnover in the APS.

A lot of them have 'safety' in the job title.

 

[Furniture]

The number of positions that have become a depth of one is concerning.

The brain trust of experience in the RCN has gone from a deep pool to a much shallower pond. That should be concerning to leadership...

I have zero doubt that RCN leadership is concerned. I also have zero doubt that the CAF's concerns are falling on deaf ears in government.

There are two proven ways to get people to do jobs. Make the working/living conditions better, or pay a lot of money. The CAF/Government are kinda trying to do both, and failing at both.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I wanted to share some interesting photos from HMCS Max Bernays at RIMPAC 2024 so far.



Good perspective image showing the difference in dimensions between a CPF (HMCS Vancouver) and AOPS (HMCS Max Bernays).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812925100150202612

Blackhawk helicopter of the US Army's 25th Combat Aviation Brigade doing landing operations aboard HMCS Max Bernays.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1800700325604765999

Not strictly RIMPAC 2024 but regardless, memorabilia and artifacts from HMCS Assiniboine aboard HMCS Max Bernays, definitely one of my favorite aspects of properly utilizing our naval heritage when we can bring these pieces of history along to sea with us instead of rotting forever in a dusty museum or government warehouse.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I wanted to share some interesting photos from HMCS Max Bernays at RIMPAC 2024 so far.

View attachment 86705

Good perspective image showing the difference in dimensions between a CPF (HMCS Vancouver) and AOPS (HMCS Max Bernays).

It would be interesting to see a similar view with an MCDV included.

 

[Stoker]

Not the same but its quite a difference. Taken in Halifax and in Boston.

 

[ArmyRick]

Just curious (as the name implies, army background), why do the Dewolf class AOPS not have any air defence or torpedo launch thingys? They look big enough to hold that kind of stuff. Feel free to educate me.

 

[NavyShooter]

Just curious (as the name implies, army background), why do the Dewolf class AOPS not have any air defence or torpedo launch thingys? They look big enough to hold that kind of stuff. Feel free to educate me.

They have a 25mm chain gun.

That's it.

They are a constabulary role vessel, not a warship.

 

[Maxman1]

A Mk 32 torpedo launcer could probably be bolted on the deck somewhere.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Just curious (as the name implies, army background), why do the Dewolf class AOPS not have any air defence or torpedo launch thingys? They look big enough to hold that kind of stuff. Feel free to educate me.

To add to what NavyShooter already said, I guess short answer is it was built as a non combatant so doesn't have any ASW/ASuW/AAW requirements for detection or defence.

 

[PrairieFella]

They have a 25mm chain gun.

That's it.

They are a constabulary role vessel, not a warship.

We're weapons ever on the table and removed or was the AOPS always supposed to be unarmed for all intents and purposes? If they were meant to have weapons, why were they removed?

 

[suffolkowner]

downsized from the 57mm on the Norwegian

 

[Stoker]

We're weapons ever on the table and removed or was the AOPS always supposed to be unarmed for all intents and purposes? If they were meant to have weapons, why were they removed?

Honestly it's a very different ship than the Norwegian one. I've been in both. Other than the 57mm and 25mm no difference in armament. Non-Combatant doesn't mean unarmed.

 

[Rainbow1910]

It would be interesting to see a similar view with an MCDV included.

 

[FSTO]

At Battle of the Atlantic 50th in Liverpool 1993 I was in a group of Uk, German, Russian and me, plus a translator… and there may have been drinks involved. We were saying how scared we were during the Cold War of them because their missiles are so big. He said they were more scared of us because ours worked.

He hoped that out of the eight 4 might make it out of the launcher and we would get 3, so the one that got through had to do the job.

Were you part of Nipigon’s Air Det? I was a subbie OOW on that trip.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Honestly it's a very different ship than the Norwegian one. I've been in both. Other than the 57mm and 25mm no difference in armament. Non-Combatant doesn't mean unarmed.

For a constabulary role that seems reasonable; if you are a fishing boat or something a 25mm will ruin your day just in a slightly less dramatic fashion then a 57mm. The 57 on AOPs would have made sense for common equipment if the CPFs were new vice on their last legs, although it's apparently very similar (possibly identitical) to something in use by the Army as their weapon techs are trained on maintaining/fixing it.

 

[ArmyRick]

For a constabulary role that seems reasonable; if you are a fishing boat or something a 25mm will ruin your day just in a slightly less dramatic fashion then a 57mm. The 57 on AOPs would have made sense for common equipment if the CPFs were new vice on their last legs, although it's apparently very similar (possibly identitical) to something in use by the Army as their weapon techs are trained on maintaining/fixing it.

I noticed an AOPS was participating in a RIMPAC. Can you fill me in, if this is most likely a coastal domestic defence ship, what role would it play in a large mixed fleet RIMPAC scenario?

 

[Stoker]

For a constabulary role that seems reasonable; if you are a fishing boat or something a 25mm will ruin your day just in a slightly less dramatic fashion then a 57mm. The 57 on AOPs would have made sense for common equipment if the CPFs were new vice on their last legs, although it's apparently very similar (possibly identitical) to something in use by the Army as their weapon techs are trained on maintaining/fixing it.

Honestly I would have preferred a bigger gun if anything to silence the incessant whining from those who think the size of a gun is the ships worth.

 

[Stoker]

I noticed an AOPS was participating in a RIMPAC. Can you fill me in, if this is most likely a coastal domestic defence ship, what role would it play in a large mixed fleet RIMPAC scenario?

Went for training really, they need personnel with qualifications for that ship and start to pull together a crew for HMCS Hampton Gray . They embarked a sizable medical detachment and embarked disaster relief supplies for that part of the exercise. Its also a golden opportunity to work with other navies and gain that experience which they can take to any class of ship. If we had submarines on that exercise they could embark the SUB SMASH payload.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Went for training really, they need personnel with qualifications for that ship and start to pull together a crew for HMCS Hampton Gray . They embarked a sizable medical detachment and embarked disaster relief supplies for that part of the exercise. Its also a golden opportunity to work with other navies and gain that experience which they can take to any class of ship. If we had submarines on that exercise they could embark the SUB SMASH payload.

With a lot of work, workarounds, risk assessments, briefings etc they also finally got a temporary air cert to do some very basic cross deck helo work.

Still a lot of fixes left before will ever get full air cert for unrestricted flight deck, let alone embarked helo but at least it's a start.

Optimistic LL there will also make JSS easier, but some of the FD related design choices there are somewhat odd, so will see.