Are We Wasting Our Effort?

[Mike Bobbitt]

What's adding insult to injury, I would imagine, is people questioning the mission and suggesting that a lack of leadership is to blame for these casualties. Think of how your comments affect the families and friends of those involved, or even the wounded themselves. Please stick to the facts and steer clear of laying blame based on speculation.

I think your suggestion that members of the CF will try to "make their career" out of this is reprehensible and irresponsible.

 

[Armymedic]

I am also wondering how effective is the ballistic armour of the G-wagon (i.e. IED, mines, 7.62 rounds etc..). Would a Nyla have been safer? Thanks for any feedback

If you watch the briefings by Maj Withers, he gives up to date comprehensive briefings as to their conditions. doesn't get any better then those.

As for the armour protection of the LUVW, it is NATO level 3 which is designed to stop 7.62 rounds. It is not mine resistant, but will dissipate the blast better then an unarmoured veh.

Explosions cause damage from blast, heat, and fragmentation (causing burns and penetrations). Also there is secondary injury from fragments of surrounding items being tossed (penetrations), and tertiary injuries from the body being thrown (blunt force trauma like the 2 severely injured soldiers).

As for the Nyala...I am not an engineer, but in my opinion the fact that the veh was thrown 30+ ft shows that the veh rolling from the blast, and concussion did the damage (tertiary injuries) not the explosion itself, suggests anything less then a tank would have not prevented injury.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I feel no need to put my military experience on the table

Military experience isn't a requirement to post here and having military experience doesn't mean someones opinion is more or less valued than someone who doesn't.

That said unless you decide to put YOUR experience out in the publics eye don't call people out on their own experience whether their an reserve officer, career NCM or recruit with 4 months time in.

 

[combatcamera]

As for the Nyala...I am not an engineer, but in my opinion the fact that the veh was thrown 30+ ft shows that the veh rolling from the blast, and concussion did the damage (tertiary injuries) not the explosion itself, suggests anything less then a tank would have not prevented injury.

Gotta wonder why they're now sending 43 Nyala's over there Mach Schnell!  On ROTO 0, I think they only had one Nyala in theatre along with a sh*tload  of Iltis's.  I'm not an expert on sustained injuries or anything, but the latest attack was VERY effective. The bad guys will just add a few more rounds, or pounds of explosives next time.  That's pretty obvious.

 

[Armymedic]

Gotta wonder why they're now sending 43 Nyala's over there Mach Schnell!  

Because of the Ground Designation rules. Remeber, you can't move over ground that is not designated without a mine resistant veh. Nor can you drive, walk or anything else until it is designated...kind hard on a cbt patrol. The Nyala is the only mine resistant veh in our fleet in Afghanistan.

Stick with pictures, Frank.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Post in poor taste at this time removed by Moderator.

 

[Michael OLeary]

cannonfodder, if you have nothing more than rhetoric to post than please at least have some respect and post it elsewhere while we are waiting to see three wounded Canadians repatriated to Canada.

If you wish to present yourself with any credibility here, please add some detail to your profile. Further posts in this vein will also be purged.

This is your warning, please see the Conduct Guidelines.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there. For the record, Officers are soldiers too. You seem to have a pretty black and white view that all Officers are career yes men. While I can't deny that's the case in some situations, to make generalizations like this just shows a sad ignorance of how the CF operates.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Pretty much somes it up , the good get run out and I will not comment  on what you are left with .

 

[Michael OLeary]

Well, *we* seem to be left with about 9000 members who are trying to make this place a useful exchange of information, rather than a personal soapbox for bitter rhetoric. Stick around, read for a while, you might find the place has a use in that big picture of yours.

 

[Jarnhamar]

waste of time

 

[Cannonfodder]

    Censorship is in effect 

 

[muskrat89]

Censorship is in effect

Nooo.... a private site, with guidelines enforced per the owner's wishes is in effect  :  Knock it off or you will be cluttering up someone else's site

 

[armyvern]

    Censorship is in effect 

Perhaps you'd call it censorship. I call it complying with the conduct guidelines (which isn't about what you post but rather how you post it). It's called respect for others and posting appropriately.

You'd do well to learn when and where to make appropriate comments to the thread. IMHO your going off on a tangent in a thread relating to injured soldiers is neither appropriate or called for.

 

[Cannonfodder]

I only posted a differing opinion , a mind is like a parachute it works better when it is open . Members takes snipes , then you respond  and who wears it ?. Is this a discussion forum or a cheer leading section ? . Contrary to popular belief sometimes people have differant opinions and will express them from time to time .

 

[armyvern]

I only posted a differing opinion , a mind is like a parachute it works better when it is open . Members takes snipes , then you respond  and who wears it ?. Is this a discussion forum or a cheer leading section ? . Contrary to popular belief sometimes people have differant opinions and will express them from time to time .

You didn't just express an opinion. That's not the problem. You berated Officer's for no just reason with an assinine comment about them making careers of injured soldiers. Ergo the comments to you about broad brush strokes. Perhaps you should just take the lesson for what it's worth. If I had a bad experience with whatever(insert trade/rank of your choice here)...I don't slam them all and paint them all with the same brush, I'm bigger than that, and perhaps as a self-admitted unbiased individual...you should be to.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Unfortunately I think some have misinterpreted what I was saying . I only was commenting on the pain that families must be going through , Canadas role in Afghanistan and the qaulity of leadership in the military , nothing more . Any diegressions  were purely in response to snipes . Funny how for a democratic society we are so intollerant of opposing viewpoints.

 

[the 48th regulator]

.  I feel no need to put my military experiance on the table  but I will tell you this , when the first  bullet  goes  by  your head , mortar round falls near you ,ask your self is this worth it ? . Remember the people that have the most to gain  , have the least  to lose .

Yep,

I was all worth it for me, and I would do it again.  There does that answer your question.

You obviously post with experience that you speak about.  Would be nice to hear about it.  Opposing view points, on a military site.  For those that have served.  Are you angry at the system that serves us while we serve or the treatment afterwards??

dileas

tess

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

Funny how for a democratic society we are so intollerant of opposing viewpoints.

Yes it is... you've refused to acknowledge any viewpoint but your own, while simultaneously providing nothing to back up your claims. So I'm puzzled as to why you are so intolerant of the experiences of those who have done the job.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Iam not intolerant  of those who serve , rather Iam frustrated that our military is involved in yet another not clearly defined mission .  I think this shows the little regard the government has for the military when you place someone in a situation without giving them the proper equipment and a clear goal . It appears we are being  used as window dressing to gain favor with the americans . Hell they were a route cause  of the problems that plague Afghanistan  but yet now it is our problem . If you make a mess clean it up.