Army Reserve Restructuring

[KevinB]

Looks like LAFD has volunteers.

But, they stop short of calling them volunteer firefighters.

Volunteer | Los Angeles Fire Department

lafd.org

They definitely seem to have a fairly expansive program

But the structural fire stuff seems to stay within the professionals

They do have a Wildfire Volunteer Fire Crew

LAFD Crew 3 | Los Angeles Fire Department

LAFD Crew 3 is a Volunteer Type II Handcrew managed by the Los Angeles Fire Department. Crew 3 Members receive wildland classes and hands-on training as well as career guidance to help with successful careers in the Fire Service. Crew 3 is managed and run by LAFD Members with extensive wildland...

lafd.org

As well as the Community Emergency Response Team

Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) | Los Angeles Fire Department

In Los Angeles, there are more than four million people in the city every day, whether they're residents or visitors. The diverse nature of the city, not to mention more than 470 square miles of geography, make a high risk situation in the event of a major disaster. Thankfully, the city has not...

lafd.org

Which looks like it has been pressed into service doing external firefighting on structures.

But I agree with @FJAG that the equipment issues LAFD have are all too similar

 

[Kirkhill]

I figured that this might be the right thread to revive based on this article regarding the LA Fires.



In short LA says that about half of its vehicles are backlogged for repairs because its old, has a high need for maintenance and there is a lack of mechanics. Sounds familiar.

It made me think that the current situation is unprecedented but large fires are not unusual requiring masses of equipment and fire fighters. I unsuccessfully tried to find out if LA County or the city have reserve firefighters but did find out that adjacent Orange County does, and of course there are numerous towns with volunteer firefighters.

It appears to me that, especially in places where the topography like LA, dry brush, many wooden structures and steep hills and canyons where fire can burst out of control, there is a requirement for both reserve firefighters and reserve equipment. Reserve firefighters can augment regular crews on regular equipment to provide 24/7 shifts during major long-lasting events and can also man additional reserve equipment to increase the containment coverage during a major event.

The analogy to Canada's army reserve is just to much to ignore.

Having reserve army personnel is part of the answer, but the proper maintenance of regular equipment and the need to have a depth capability through effective and serviceable reserve equipment is critical in any reserve restructuring plan. One can manage marginal gains perhaps on the training front by reshuffling deck chairs, but until and unless one makes a sound plan for providing reserve equipment and an effective use and maintenance system for it, one is only solving half of the problem. An additional factor (not relevant to fires) is that a credible and armed reserve is part of a proper deterrence campaign.

It strikes me that the current political climate is one where a revamping and coordination of funding for the military, industry participation, and growing the force through cheaper reserve personnel costs and cheaper reserve equipment (due to less wear and tear and O&M not procurement cost) should be at the top of the DND/CAF agenda.

Just

Bedford Self Propelled Pump - Green Goddess Civil Defence Truck Manned by the Army (Territorials and Regs).

Buckets and Ladders.

...

How about palletized pumps that can be mounted in any vehicle the size of a pickup truck or larger? Pickups, LVM(Ls), MSVSs, Bvs, and Helos.

 

[KevinB]

How about palletized pumps that can be mounted in any vehicle the size of a pickup truck or larger? Pickups, LVM(Ls), MSVSs, Bvs, and Helos.

They exist, but the pumps aren't usually the major issue in large fires -- Water supply is also a big thing.

I think palletized systems are great for many roles, the biggest issue is that one needs to remember that the prime mover can't do multiple things at once, and so 15 different palletized systems with 1000 units of each require 15,000 host vehicles if you need them all at the same time.

Palletization is fantastic for logistical purposes, and some drop and go setups, but isn't a panacea to remove the requirement from the number of vehicles required for tasks.

 

[Kirkhill]

They exist, but the pumps aren't usually the major issue in large fires -- Water supply is also a big thing.

I think palletized systems are great for many roles, the biggest issue is that one needs to remember that the prime mover can't do multiple things at once, and so 15 different palletized systems with 1000 units of each require 15,000 host vehicles if you need them all at the same time.

Palletization is fantastic for logistical purposes, and some drop and go setups, but isn't a panacea to remove the requirement from the number of vehicles required for tasks.

Too bad there weren't a bunch of palletized pumps that could have been dropped at the low tide line at Malibu.

 

[KevinB]

Too bad there weren't a bunch of palletized pumps that could have been dropped at the low tide line at Malibu.

Santa Monica and the Palisades have ocean frontage -- but do you have 5km of hose for each of those pumps to get to where it is needed?
Or do you have the tanker ability to move water from there source to a pump truck on scene.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Santa Monica and the Palisades have ocean frontage -- but do you have 5km of hose for each of those pumps to get to where it is needed?
Or do you have the tanker ability to move water from there source to a pump truck on scene.

Salt water is probably the last thing you want to use. You'd kill vegetation in the area for decades, I suspect.

 

[Kirkhill]

Santa Monica and the Palisades have ocean frontage -- but do you have 5km of hose for each of those pumps to get to where it is needed?
Or do you have the tanker ability to move water from there source to a pump truck on scene.

Do you have hoses to tie into the fire hydrants and pressurize the system with salt water for the duration of the emergency? Flush the lines afterwards.

 

[Kirkhill]

Salt water is probably the last thing you want to use. You'd kill vegetation in the area for decades, I suspect.

It may be the last thing you want to use. But suppose it is the last thing you have available?

 

[childs56]

Santa Monica and the Palisades have ocean frontage -- but do you have 5km of hose for each of those pumps to get to where it is needed?
Or do you have the tanker ability to move water from there source to a pump truck on scene.

Fire & Flood Emergency Service LTD – Fire & Flood Emergency Services Ltd. is a leading emergency management company that specializes in disaster response, disaster recovery, and environmental cleanup.

fire-flood.com

This company popped up a couple of years ago here.
But many Oilfield companies and dewatering companies can move water over many KM when required.
They can set up large containment pools,sprinklers and what ever you need for water needs.

Salt water is probably the last thing you want to use. You'd kill vegetation in the area for decades, I suspect.

Probably, but salt water can help some with growing.

Do you have hoses to tie into the fire hydrants and pressurize the system with salt water for the duration of the emergency? Flush the lines afterwards.

That's a good way to fund funds to replace your entire potable water system unless one has a separate hydrant system.

 

[KevinB]

Do you have hoses to tie into the fire hydrants and pressurize the system with salt water for the duration of the emergency? Flush the lines afterwards.

You cannot run salt water through the city water in CA, regardless if it is an emergency or not.
They have a number of aquifers that are tied into the system, and you'd destroy the area.

Brought to you by the same folks that banned roof top sprinklers, and the Gov vetoed the mandated the water supply improvements.

 

[Kirkhill]

The private US weather service AccuWeather, which also measures the costs of weather events, now estimates total losses at between $250 billion and $275 billion, almost double what it estimated last week. If those figures are borne out, it would make the LA wildfires the costliest natural disaster in US history.

LA fires could be 'costliest' natural disaster in US history – DW – 01/14/2025

The devastating wildfires which have hit Los Angeles and other parts of southern California could be one of the costliest natural disasters in US history. They're also wreaking havoc for already struggling home insurers.

www.dw.com

250 BUSD....

Reckon that might have bought some pumps and hoses? Or replaced the hydrant system? Or paralleled it? Or paid for land rehabilitation?

And if the fire had been brought under control with salt water earlier would the damaged area and the bill been as big?

 

[KevinB]

LA fires could be 'costliest' natural disaster in US history – DW – 01/14/2025

The devastating wildfires which have hit Los Angeles and other parts of southern California could be one of the costliest natural disasters in US history. They're also wreaking havoc for already struggling home insurers.

www.dw.com

250 BUSD....

Reckon that might have bought some pumps and hoses? Or replaced the hydrant system? Or paralleled it? Or paid for land rehabilitation?

And if the fire had been brought under control with salt water earlier would the damaged area and the bill been as big?

My cousin lives in Santa Monica - several homes on his street went up, these are multi million dollar homes, and some didn't have fire insurance due to the insurers cutting their coverage at the end of the year - and few insurers willing to take on insuring homes in that area due to the risk.

He was evacuated, got his family in a hotel and went back due to the issue with 1) Looters 2) Trying to save his house -- he has a pool, a pump, a generator, and was spraying his roof and the surrounding areas from his pool. They are all back at the house, but still on evacuation notice.

I suspect this fiasco has crushed Gov Newsom's chances to do anything after the next election - as a lot of blame is being correlated to him, and his refusal to allow the counties in the greater LA area to upgrade the water supply.

Given the areas history, it seems pretty clear that not enough effort went into preventative measures, nor control measures.
Which frankly parallels the CAF and CA specifically.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My cousin lives in Santa Monica - several homes on his street went up, these are multi million dollar homes, and some didn't have fire insurance due to the insurers cutting their coverage at the end of the year - and few insurers willing to take on insuring homes in that area due to the risk.

He was evacuated, got his family in a hotel and went back due to the issue with 1) Looters 2) Trying to save his house -- he has a pool, a pump, a generator, and was spraying his roof and the surrounding areas from his pool. They are all back at the house, but still on evacuation notice.

I suspect this fiasco has crushed Gov Newsom's chances to do anything after the next election - as a lot of blame is being correlated to him, and his refusal to allow the counties in the greater LA area to upgrade the water supply.

Given the areas history, it seems pretty clear that not enough effort went into preventative measures, nor control measures.
Which frankly parallels the CAF and CA specifically.

Survey says...

The Fall of Newsom: Latest Polls Show California's Governor Has Lost the Public's Trust in 2025​

In a stunning turn of events, California Governor Gavin Newsom's once-so soaring popularity among Californians has taken a dramatic nosedive, leaving many residents questioning the future direction of the Golden State. According to recent polls reported by the Los Angeles Times, Newsom's approval rating has plummeted to a mere 46% as of January 2025, with a slightly higher 47% of voters now disapproving of his performance. This marks a staggering decline from his earlier days in office when he enjoyed approval ratings above 60%.

The Fall of Newsom: Latest Polls Show California's Governor Has Lost the Public's Trust in 2025 - NewsBreak

In a stunning turn of events, California Governor Gavin Newsom's once-so soaring popularity among Californians has taken a dramatic nosedive, leaving many

www.newsbreak.com

 

[McG]

It strikes me that the current political climate is one where a revamping and coordination of funding for the military, industry participation, and growing the force through cheaper reserve personnel costs and cheaper reserve equipment (due to less wear and tear and O&M not procurement cost) should be at the top of the DND/CAF agenda.

Well, you succeed in turning the PRes organization thread into two pages of California fires discussion… but I don’t know what exactly you were trying to propose for the PRes.

 

[Kirkhill]

My cousin lives in Santa Monica - several homes on his street went up, these are multi million dollar homes, and some didn't have fire insurance due to the insurers cutting their coverage at the end of the year - and few insurers willing to take on insuring homes in that area due to the risk.

He was evacuated, got his family in a hotel and went back due to the issue with 1) Looters 2) Trying to save his house -- he has a pool, a pump, a generator, and was spraying his roof and the surrounding areas from his pool. They are all back at the house, but still on evacuation notice.

I suspect this fiasco has crushed Gov Newsom's chances to do anything after the next election - as a lot of blame is being correlated to him, and his refusal to allow the counties in the greater LA area to upgrade the water supply.

Given the areas history, it seems pretty clear that not enough effort went into preventative measures, nor control measures.
Which frankly parallels the CAF and CA specifically.

Glad to hear your cousin, his family and his house survived.

 

[Kirkhill]

Survey says...

The Fall of Newsom: Latest Polls Show California's Governor Has Lost the Public's Trust in 2025​

In a stunning turn of events, California Governor Gavin Newsom's once-so soaring popularity among Californians has taken a dramatic nosedive, leaving many residents questioning the future direction of the Golden State. According to recent polls reported by the Los Angeles Times, Newsom's approval rating has plummeted to a mere 46% as of January 2025, with a slightly higher 47% of voters now disapproving of his performance. This marks a staggering decline from his earlier days in office when he enjoyed approval ratings above 60%.

The Fall of Newsom: Latest Polls Show California's Governor Has Lost the Public's Trust in 2025 - NewsBreak

In a stunning turn of events, California Governor Gavin Newsom's once-so soaring popularity among Californians has taken a dramatic nosedive, leaving many

www.newsbreak.com

 

[KevinB]

Well, you succeed in turning the PRes organization thread into two pages of California fires discussion… but I don’t know what exactly you were trying to propose for the PRes.

I think it was based on the equipment issue. The linked article shows that the local Fire Department(s) had a slew more equipment but it was down for maintenance.

The PRes have basically no equipment, and aren’t a viable force due to that, but it’s important to remember that even if equipment was provided that it needs to be maintained with requires both training personnel and parts.

 

[McG]

But what’s the so what? What’s being proposed?

 

[FJAG]

But what’s the so what? What’s being proposed?

Same as before. I've put forward my position several times. If you want it all in one capsule then see here:

https://www.amazon.ca/Unsustainable-At-Any-Price-Canadian/dp/1926521269

It's cheap in Kindle but if you want, PM me and give me an email address and I'll send you a pdf copy.

 

[GK .Dundas]

LA fires could be 'costliest' natural disaster in US history – DW – 01/14/2025

The devastating wildfires which have hit Los Angeles and other parts of southern California could be one of the costliest natural disasters in US history. They're also wreaking havoc for already struggling home insurers.

www.dw.com

250 BUSD....

Reckon that might have bought some pumps and hoses? Or replaced the hydrant system? Or paralleled it? Or paid for land rehabilitation?

And if the fire had been brought under control with salt water earlier would the damaged area and the bill been as big?

And if you irretrievably damage the aquifers with salt water ? This seems to be a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I'm not sure that there's a good answer here.