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Bev Oda

MaCleans comes out with a different view............

Happy to see Oda go? Really, you shouldn’t be.
by Adam Goldenberg on Thursday, July 5, 2012
Article Link

Bev Oda’s resignation had as much to do with abortion as it did with foreign aid.

She left with neither a bang nor a whimper. After eight years in Parliament, six as a minister, she was simply gone, vanished, disappeared. Pushed out of the helicopter of political expediency, perhaps, or fed to the sharks beneath the Cabinet table.

Since her OJ trial, the international cooperation minister’s prospects, long a stretch, had turned to pulp. She could have resigned herself to the backbenches. She resigned her seat instead.

Her departure is no cause for celebration; it says much more about our politics than it does about Ms. Oda. Our standards have become so superficial that, where once we expected accountability, we demand damage control, instead.

Ministers are now mouthpieces. We judge them by their spin in Question Period and their sound bites in scrums. The federal Cabinet is so flimsy, so insubstantial, that a six-year veteran can be felled by a single glass of $16 orange juice.

Sure, Ms. Oda’s sins against parsimony were several, and accumulated over time. But she was, by the Harper government’s standards, a reasonably accomplished minister. At the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), Ms. Oda presided over major shifts in Canada’s foreign aid policy; our help now goes to a smaller set of countries than before, and is less restricted once it gets there. Policy shifts like these may not grab headlines, but their significance outstrips their sizzle. But how much thought was given to Ms. Oda’s record before the Prime Minister showed her the door?

No, this was not a governing decision; it was a communications strategy. In that, it was anything but unusual. To smirk at this week’s turn of events is to take pleasure, if unwittingly, in the government’s way of doing business. Surely the banality of sheeple deserves less than mirth.

If the Conservatives’ opponents cannot resist raising a toast to Ms. Oda’s misfortune, they should take note of who is standing with them.

The government backbench and the Tory base will be glad to see her go, not because they value ministerial accountability, but because they object to the expenditure of public money on, well, just about anything. That includes MP pensions, per-vote subsidies for political parties, public broadcasting, seasonal Employment Insurance benefits—and orange juice, too.

Another group of Ms. Oda’s antagonists deserves special notice: the anti-choice crowd. Few, if any, organizations—and that includes the opposition parties—have spent as much time calling for her head as the Campaign Life Coalition (CLC), which cheered her resignation in a statement on Wednesday:

“Oda has been notorious in her pro-abortion position,” it declared. “In 2010, Oda spoke against the stated decision of her leader, Prime Minister Stephen Harper, when he said that Canada would not pay for abortions in developing countries.” For that alone, said CLC National President Jim Hughes, “she should have been asked to resign.”

Whether or not it was his intention to do so, Mr. Harper has placated his pro-life supporters by sacking a minister who had the temerity to suggest that women in poor countries should enjoy the right to choose.

Still, one wonders whether Ms. Oda would have yet survived had she been quicker on her feet in the Commons, swifter in a scrum, or more charismatic on camera. After all, the well-toned Peter MacKay—he of the rugby pitch and the potato patch—is all but certain to stay in the Ministry, if not at National Defence, despite the fact that his gaffes will cost the taxpayer billions more than Ms. Oda’s stay at the Savoy.

And for the sheer comedy of Conservative Cabinet-making, look no further than Ms. Oda’s replacement: Julian Fantino, the erstwhile military procurement minister, whose single achievement in government has been to turn the slow-simmering F-35 fiasco into a full-blown boondoggle, the priciest in Canadian history.

For him: a promotion. For her: a pension. And, given that Ms. Oda was punished for abusing the public purse, it is worth noting that Mr. Fantino already collects several of the latter.
a little More on link
 
There's nothing much with which I would disagree in Adam Goldenberg's diatribe ... except for one sentence: "After all, the well-toned Peter MacKay—he of the rugby pitch and the potato patch—is all but certain to stay in the Ministry, if not at National Defence, despite the fact that his gaffes will cost the taxpayer billions more than Ms. Oda’s stay at the Savoy."

Mr, MacKay's gaffes were not the problem; Mr MacKay's sin was to accept the professional advice of the most senior military officers and civil servants in DND. Mr. MacKay didn't make up numbers, Mr. Mackay didn't 'cook the books' - his officials, admirals and generals and assistant deputy ministers, did that for him to him.

Had I been MND when this began to smell I would have booted Fonberg and Natynczyk out of the HQ building, from the 13th floor window, followed  by a few other very senior officers and civil servants. I wouldn't have blamed them ... just fired them. (I know, the DM DND and CDS serve at the PM's pleasure, not the MND's - but I'll bet PM Harper would have backed Mackay had he (having secured the Clerk's support) said, "Look, PM, it's them or me, and if I go I'll make a fuss about government management. They, on the other hand will go quietly ~ the media never listens to generals and civil servants, they're not news, not even when they get fired.")


 
How is the F-35 the "Priciest boondoggle in Canadian history"? This project, aside from the $$$ spent on the procurement process and R & D, hasn't cost Canada a cent, as there is no money yet spent. 

Sounds like Liberal/NDP driving at a story, even if the facts don't necessarily align.

I do concur with Mr. Campbell that Mr MacKay should be looking to sack the CDS or at the very least the CAS or the procurement staff for the errors and oversights in the procurement of this kit.  It's easy to say that as the boss he should be accountable, but in reality, he's a civvie, and his advisers at all levels said that this was the answer and withheld details.  No matter how much leadership someone may or may not have, this is not anything that he personally could have avoided without micro management
 
edited by Mod for unsubstantiated reports of illegal activity.

Nemo88,

I don't care where your political sensibilities lay, but you won't put the Site Owner in jeopardy by libeling a public figure on this forum.

You've just run yourself to the top of the ladder.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
Bird_Gunner45 said:
How is the F-35 the "Priciest boondoggle in Canadian history"? This project, aside from the $$$ spent on the procurement process and R & D, hasn't cost Canada a cent, as there is no money yet spent. 

Sounds like Liberal/NDP driving at a story, even if the facts don't necessarily align.

I do concur with Mr. Campbell that Mr MacKay should be looking to sack the CDS or at the very least the CAS or the procurement staff for the errors and oversights in the procurement of this kit.  It's easy to say that as the boss he should be accountable, but in reality, he's a civvie, and his advisers at all levels said that this was the answer and withheld details.  No matter how much leadership someone may or may not have, this is not anything that he personally could have avoided without micro management

With the mess the Liberals put us in with the Cyclones, they have no leg to stand on in the F35 arguement.
 
PuckChaser said:
With the mess the Liberals put us in with the Cyclones, they have no leg to stand on in the F35 arguement.

Which was "Phase 2" of 'How not to replace a Sea King', after "Phase 1" - giving Augusta Westland $ 1/2 Billion for the EH-101 cancellation...

Regards
G2G
 
Everybody always forgets the $800M that had already been spent on the programme up to the point of cancellation - a total of $1.3B to buy no helicopters.

Huge damage was done to the Canadian aerospace industry as well, and a couple of thousand jobs were lost.
 
Alright gosh darn it I will vote for the Progressive Conservative Party.
Oops, we don't have a "Progressive Conservative Party"  :mad:
 
Nemo888 said:
edited by Mod for unsubstantiated reports of illegal activity.

Nemo88,

I don't care where your political sensibilities lay, but you won't put the Site Owner in jeopardy by libeling a public figure on this forum.

You've just run yourself to the top of the ladder.

Milnet.ca Staff


It's not hearsay now. These are the last two MP's thrown out. Think about all they had to do to be thrown out. Now Bev Oda was also thrown out. I won't bother saying what the gossip that I believe to be true is. Make your own conclusions.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Rahim+Jaffer+sought+secret+info+about+Canadian+satellite/6948597/story.html

ormer Conservative MP Rahim Jaffer sought secret information about Canadian military satellite technology after meeting with state-owned Chinese technology companies in China in 2010, according to a document filed in an Ottawa courthouse Tuesday by private investigator Derek Snowdy.

Snowdy is being sued by Jaffer's wife, Helena Guergis, for defamation, along with Prime Minister Stephen Harper, the Conservative Party of Canada and a number of senior officials who were involved with Guergis's expulsion from the Conservative caucus in April 2010 in the "busty hookers" scandal.

Guergis resigned from cabinet and was expelled from the Conservative caucus the day after the Toronto Star reported that Jaffer and business associates had partied with escorts at a pricey Toronto restaurant the night that Jaffer was charged with cocaine possession.

In Ottawa Wednesday, lawyers for Harper and Guy Giorno, his former chief of staff, will argue Guergis's lawsuit ought to be thrown out of court.

Snowdy's statement of defence casts light on Jaffer's February 2010 trip to China, which Jaffer made with Hai Shiene Chen, a Chinese Canadian businessman.

Chen "had many connections and ties to state-owned technology companies in the Peoples Republic of China and that had been anxious to befriend Jaffer and Guergis according to email exchanges," Snowdy writes.

During the trip, Snowdy writes, Jaffer "was hosted and socialized by Chen's associates representing state-owned technology companies."

On his return, Jaffer wrote to David Pierce, then the director of parliamentary affairs to then industry minister Tony Clement, with detailed questions about the Canadian government's "long-term space policy" regarding Radarsat-2, a high-technology earth-observation satellite developed by MacDonald Dettwiler and Associates with more than $500 million in federal funding.

On March 16, 2010, Jaffer, using an email address belonging to Guergis's MP account, wrote that he had "a few questions on behalf of some constituents who are friends of Helena and I."

He then asks, in the email, about the government's plans for the satellite program, including its sensitive "automatic identification system," a military system used to identify vessels in Canadian waters.

"I know these are very technical questions and I have pretty much copied and pasted their request directly to you," Jaffer wrote in the email to Pierce.

In a letter to ethics commissioner Mary Dawson on April 16, 2010, after Guergis left the government, Pierce wrote that he also spoke to Jaffer on March 17 but did not pass on any information about Canada's space program.

In his statement of defence, Snowdy writes that he "understood that Guergis had used her office to assist or procure Jaffer's visa to enter China," and suggests that Jaffer may have travelled on the diplomatic passport he received as a spouse of a cabinet minister.

The Globe and Mail has previously reported that Jaffer claimed to have lost that passport when he was asked to return it following his wife's departure from cabinet.

In an interview on Tuesday, Snowdy said that he has spoken to "police and intelligence agencies with respect to a number of Mr. Jaffer's business interests and contacts," but declined to be more specific.

Snowdy, who initially came into contact with Jaffer in the course of an investigation into accused fraudster Nazim Gillani, Jaffer's former business partner, said he became aware of Jaffer's business contacts in China because Jaffer and Gillani were seeking investors.

"There were firms related to technology, aerospace and computer software and engineering," Snowdy said in an interview. "There was a small list circulated among people who were being solicited to sponsor Jaffer's diplomatic mission to China."

Former CSIS agent David Harris, said Tuesday that it would be interesting to know which "constituents" Jaffer was inquiring for.

"In light of the travel to China and the sensitivity of the technology involved, it would be very helpful for Mr. Jaffer to help Canadians to understand the complete background, including contacts made and any technology that might have been sought, as well as the specific individuals and interests that could have prompted his inquiry."

In June, 2010, CSIS director Richard Fadden warned that China was attempting to influence Canadian politicians, and former CSIS agents have publicly warned that the communist government's agents are engaged in an ongoing, multifaceted intelligence operations in Canada, driven by interest in Canadian technology and resources.

Harris said that CSIS, Canadian military intelligence and allied intelligence agencies were likely interested in Jaffer's inquiry about Radarsat-2.

"This would be a matter of extreme interest, it would seem to me, to any self-respecting security service," he said.

Contacted by telephone Tuesday, Jaffer declined to comment on the allegations in Snowdy's statement of defence. Chen could not be reached for comment.

Jaffer and Chen were among the guests at what the Toronto Star dubbed the "busty hookers" dinner at Toronto's swanky Harbour 60 restaurant on Sept. 10, 2009, where escorts were present. Later , Jaffer was arrested by Ontario Provincial Police and charged with impaired driving, speeding and possession of cocaine.

In an email the next day about the dinner to business associates, Gillani referred to a mysterious "China initiative" that Jaffer and Chen were to work on.

"As most of you may have heard, we had a rather earth-moving experience last night at dinner with Rahim Jaffer and Dr. Chen. Mr. Jaffer has opened up the Prime Minister's Office to us and as a result of that dinner he today advised me that he is just as excited as we are and joining our team seems to be the next logical step." Gillani said in an email to business associates.

Subsequent investigations by the federal ethics commissioner, lobbying commissioner and a parliamentary committee found that Jaffer sought millions in government spending for green energy projects, routinely using Guergis's email account and office to make pitches, but did not succeed in landing any contracts before she left the government.

Jaffer, who was still handing out his MP business cards, did not open up the Prime Minister's Office to anyone, government sources have repeatedly stated, although he does appear to have enjoyed privileged access to officials in ministers' offices.

Guergis has frequently complained about her ejection from cabinet and caucus, and ran unsuccessfully as an independent in the 2011 election.

On March 9, 2010, Jaffer pleaded guilty to a charge of careless driving and was fined $500. The cocaine possession and impaired driving charges were dropped.

In his statement of defence, Snowdy suggests that the plea deal may have included Jaffer agreeing to give evidence against Gillani.

"Given the extent of the activity Gillani was involved in, Snowdy had information that Jaffer may have offered that information in exchange for a plea agreement to his cocaine and impaired driving charges," he writes.

Gillani is now facing allegations of fraud in front of the Ontario Securities Commission.

The Jaffer cocaine case "was hijacked by the senior Crown Attorney whom pled out the case without discussing the matter with the arresting officer or the local Crown Attorney," he writes, and states that Const. Kimberley Stapleton was ordered to keep silent about the case by then-OPP commissioner Julian Fantino, who is now the minister in charge of CIDA.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Rahim+Jaffer+sought+secret+info+about+Canadian+satellite+technology+court+documents+words/6948597/story.html#ixzz20vSN4cp9
 
BTW here is an excerpt from the libel provision of the criminal code.

"Everyone commits an offence who, with intent to injure or alarm a person, conveys information that they know is false, or causes such information to be conveyed by letter or any means of telecommunication."

I believe the rumours to be true. As true as the rumours about Jaffer and Guergis turned out to be.
 
Nemo888 said:
He then asks, in the email, about the government's plans for the satellite program, including its sensitive "automatic identification system," a military system used to identify vessels in Canadian waters.

:rofl:

Now i know that i should give about ZERO credibility to this "news" article.

AIS is not secret. It is not a military system. It's akin to airplane transponders and is carrier by merchant ships the world over, it's use is mandated by the IMO. Every swinging joe sailing on a certain size commercial vessel has one, and the receiver to identify and display information about all the other AIS-equiped vessels around him.


Super secret eh ?

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/
 
Your article has nothing to do with Bev Oda.

Your strawman doesn't work either.
 
Nemo888 said:
BTW here is an excerpt from the libel provision of the criminal code.

"Everyone commits an offence who, with intent to injure or alarm a person, conveys information that they know is false, or causes such information to be conveyed by letter or any means of telecommunication."

I believe the rumours to be true. As true as the rumours about Jaffer and Guergis turned out to be.

Put your barrack room lawyer books away.

This is a private site. You'll abide by the rules or leave.

Smarter people than you have put the site owner in jeopardy with less.

Milnet.ca Staff

 
What has happened to the site owner? I thought we still had freedom of speech in Canada. If that is not the case I would like to at least know what the actual limits are in detail.
 
Nemo888 said:
What has happened to the site owner? I thought we still had freedom of speech in Canada. If that is not the case I would like to at least know what the actual limits are in detail.


  The limits on this privately owned site are what we decide they are.
Live with it or drift.............
 
Someone once told me that Freedom of speech protects you from government recrimination for expressing yourself.  It doesn't mean you get to say what you want whereever you want to...
 
Nemo888 said:
I believe the rumours to be true. As true as the rumours about Jaffer and Guergis turned out to be.

A point you seem to have missed.


Just because YOU think that the rumours are true, does not make them so. 


Although you are proving yourself to be 'special'.......You are not that special.......
 
Crantor said:
Someone once told me that Freedom of speech protects you from government recrimination for expressing yourself.  It doesn't mean you get to say what you want whereever you want to...
:goodpost:
 
Nemo888 said:
What has happened to the site owner? I thought we still had freedom of speech in Canada. If that is not the case I would like to at least know what the actual limits are in detail.

And you are willing to pay all of Mr. Bobbitt's legal fees if he is sued for defamation, based on statements maintained on his website, for which, no matter the originator (including you), he is legally responsible?


Get over yourself.


Feel free to start your own private internet forum to espouse your views of which rumours exist that you believe to be true...
 
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