Braveheart learns a Lesson

[Braveheart]

Another tidbit of advice; it's not necessary to start a new thread whenever you have a question/comment.  Do some searching and reading here.  Chances are, it's been asked and answered already.

You are right it is not necessary but it is a lot easier to start a new post that will get attention immediately rather then to search and spend hours looking for a couple good quality answers. Also it is a good way to get talking with some of your peers. That is why I would start a post anyway. I'm just wondering Moe is there a forum rule in relation to people not being able to just ask what they want. I see a lot of the senior posters seem to want to stifle new posters in the recruiting section a lot of the time with the majority of comments instantly jumping to "use the search feature" and I'm not sure what that's about.

If I have a question It's only natural I'm going to want to ask that question and I think that is my right, correct me if I am wrong but If somewhere on here it states that it is a forum policy and something we aren't supposed to do then I can abide by that.

I guess I just don't understand. I feel as though your comment along with many others defeats the purpose of an internet forum. If you don't like answering peoples questions why are you here? If you do not want to contribute or if you do contribute and your contribution is nothing other then to stifle someone, then again why would you bother to say anything in the first place?

If there is policy regarding this please feel free to outline this and enlighten me. I really would be happy to oblige with what you had to say I'm just not willing to use the search function myself right now if I do not have to as I consider that to not be a priority just yet.....As well I get to talk to you now too although I have this feeling I'm not going to like what you have to say.  ;D

 

[JSoff]

On-topic: OP; Nice to your application is progressing, and good luck with your future endeavors.

Off-topic: (Braveheart) "We do try and be as patient as possible with newcomers. That's why they get directed, sometimes repeatedly, to the search function. We accept that you may not have a good grasp of the required vocabulary to form effective searches immediately, but this, like all of life, is a learning process."

Right from using the search feature. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

 

[Braveheart]

"We do try and be as patient as possible with newcomers. That's why they get directed, sometimes repeatedly, to the search function. We accept that you may not have a good grasp of the required vocabulary to form effective searches immediately, but this, like all of life, is a learning process."

Right from using the search feature. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

Thanks Alpha, I re-read the guidelines and the only thing I see that we are both doing wrong now is that we are derailing this thread so that being said if you would like to continue this discussion further then I guess you can PM me.

 

[George Wallace]

• You are right it is not necessary but it is a lot easier to start a new post that will get attention immediately rather then to search and spend hours looking for a couple good quality answers.

  
  Gee thanks.  You really are a "special person", aren't you.  The world revolves around you.
  
  Got news for you buttercup.  You ain't special, unless you are one of Jerry's Kids, and then you would not qualify to join the CAF.
  
  Your attitude needs adjusting.
  
  It is "special people" like you that make the SEARCH function so ineffective with your redundant posting of questions that have already been answered.  You, buttercup, are the problem.
  
  Here is a hint:  Google is your friend.  Use Google.  Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)
  
  
  If you are too LAZY to search, we get nasty here and will reply in kind.
  
  Understand?
  
  
  
  

  Also it is a good way to get talking with some of your peers. That is why I would start a post anyway. I'm just wondering Moe is there a forum rule in relation to people not being able to just ask what they want. I see a lot of the senior posters seem to want to stifle new posters in the recruiting section a lot of the time with the majority of comments instantly jumping to "use the search feature" and I'm not sure what that's about.

  
  OK buttercup.  You don't need to start a new topic to talk to your peers.  Yes, there are forum rules and lots of "HINTS" posted to help new comers to navigate the site.  Those like you, who are too lazy or otherwise less intelligent to read those rules and "hints" land up suffering the wrath of the membership.  If you can't figure out what that is all about, it is a bad reflection on you.
  
  

  If I have a question It's only natural I'm going to want to ask that question and I think that is my right, correct me if I am wrong but If somewhere on here it states that it is a forum policy and something we aren't supposed to do then I can abide by that.
  
  I guess I just don't understand. I feel as though your comment along with many others defeats the purpose of an internet forum. If you don't like answering peoples questions why are you here? If you do not want to contribute or if you do contribute and your contribution is nothing other then to stifle someone, then again why would you bother to say anything in the first place?
  
  If there is policy regarding this please feel free to outline this and enlighten me. I really would be happy to oblige with what you had to say I'm just not willing to use the search function myself right now if I do not have to as I consider that to not be a priority just yet.....As well I get to talk to you now too although I have this feeling I'm not going to like what you have to say.  ;D

  
  Got news for you Buttercup:  You still aren't "SPECIAL", so learn to abide by the rules of this 'private' forum.
  
  
  Consider this your first WARNING from the STAFF who have to monitor this site, and put up with such nonsense as that displayed by YOU.
  
  BEFORE YOU POST -  READ THIS:
  
  
  Welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.
  
  Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html
  
  MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html
  
  Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446
  
  Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html
  
  FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412
  
  Frequently Asked Questions - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41136.0.html
  
  • Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
    
    
  • Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1897/post-77869.html#msg77869
  
  
  Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced
  
  Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)
  
  Army.ca wiki pages - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
  
  
  
  
  To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.
  
  

 

[PMedMoe]

Well, at the risk of derailing this thread further, I will explain why it is preferred that people do not start new topics when there is already one (or several) on the boards.  I'm sure a Mod will come along and explain it much better than I can, but here goes:

It makes the search function less efficient.  If everyone and their dog started a thread basically asking the same question, a search would bring up numerous results.  As it is right now, I understand using Google with "site:army.ca" as part of the search works quite well.  The search function here, maybe not so much except that you can modify to search only in particular threads, etc.

People seem to think that posting a new topic will get more attention, and quite possibly it does, but perhaps not the type of attention the poster was looking for.  Posting in an existing thread on the same topic, will get just as much attention and I daresay it will be a more positive experience.

There's nothing in the guidelines per se, however, there are two points where one can read a little more into them:

"You will not become an administrative burden to the Staff by intentionally or unintentionally creating significant work for them through your actions."  When people start a new topic for every question they have, the Mods have to go and merge those questions into an appropriate thread.  Clearly, this takes time and just as a reminder, all the Mods are volunteers.

"You will not spam the boards. This is usually described as making the same post over and over"  Looking at the OP's posting history, three of their five started topics pretty much deal with whether a trade is in demand or not, which to me is close enough to spamming to call it that.

This thread, I applied to an in demand trade, now it's not in demand... and How do they know?.  The last thread was merged into the second, but posted only six days later and (IMO) could have been tacked onto the second thread to begin with.

So, you say "If I have a question It's only natural I'm going to want to ask that question and I think that is my right".  Sure it is.  Keep in mind this is a privately owned forum and the owner makes the rules.

And this remark, "I'm just not willing to use the search function myself right now if I do not have to as I consider that to not be a priority" just makes you look lazy (to me anyway).

I see a lot of the senior posters seem to want to stifle new posters in the recruiting section a lot of the time with the majority of comments instantly jumping to "use the search feature" and I'm not sure what that's about.

You want to join the military?  Things will not always be easy and you will not always be spoon fed.  Get used to it now.

Not everyone on this forum is here to answer questions.  Some are only here for discussion, etc.  There are more threads on here than just the recruiting ones.

Anyway, I'm sure you get the point (or not).

I see that George Wallace has already replied, and he wasn't half as nice as I was. 

And just to be fair, George, Braveheart isn't the one starting new threads.

 

[Braveheart]

• 
  Gee thanks.  You really are a "special person", aren't you.  The world revolves around you.
  
  Got news for you buttercup.  You ain't special, unless you are one of Jerry's Kids, and then you would not qualify to join the CAF.
  
  Your attitude needs adjusting.
  
  It is "special people" like you that make the SEARCH function so ineffective with your redundant posting of questions that have already been answered.  You, buttercup, are the problem.
  
  Here is a hint:  Google is your friend.  Use Google.  Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)
  
  
  If you are too LAZY to search, we get nasty here and will reply in kind.
  
  Understand?
  
  
  
  OK buttercup.  You don't need to start a new topic to talk to your peers.  Yes, there are forum rules and lots of "HINTS" posted to help new comers to navigate the site.  Those like you, who are too lazy or otherwise less intelligent to read those rules and "hints" land up suffering the wrath of the membership.  If you can't figure out what that is all about, it is a bad reflection on you.
  
  Got news for you Buttercup:  You still aren't "SPECIAL", so learn to abide by the rules of this 'private' forum.
  
  
  Consider this your first WARNING from the STAFF who have to monitor this site, and put up with such nonsense as that displayed by YOU.
  
  BEFORE YOU POST -  READ THIS:
  
  
  Welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.
  
  Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html
  
  MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html
  
  Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446
  
  Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html
  
  FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412
  
  Frequently Asked Questions - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41136.0.html
  
  • Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
    
    
  • Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1897/post-77869.html#msg77869
  
  
  Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced
  
  Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)
  
  Army.ca wiki pages - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
  
  
  
  
  To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.
  
  
  

• 
  
  George I'm sincerely sorry you misinterpreted my thoughts on this subject as an attitude problem I was merely trying to ask Moe a serious question that I thought was a legitimate unarmed question. I'm not wanting to do combat with you or Moe. I am trying to understand where this kind of hostility towards novice posters comes from as I am noticing a reoccurring pattern the more I read. I do not think I'm special I just like to educate myself on my rights.
  
  As a moderator of this site I would think at the very least you would be expected to personify the rules and guidelines as well, as does any other position of authority having to follow their code of conduct (Police, MP, PM, CAF Soldier). That is what I believe to be a national standard. Clearly I'm not the one that feels special here however if and when I get my opportunity to prove myself I will be confident and take pride in knowing I deserve my position.
  
  If you feel the need to strip me of some of my rights because I'm challenging your opinion and you have the power to do so then I guess I'm S.O.L and so be it, just know I do have a copy of the thread to protect myself and do whatever I need to do after.
  
  Your own rules and site guidelines are as follows:
  
  Expectation of Respect between Users
  
  All visitors, regardless of age, rank or experience are to be treated as equal unless their conduct dictates otherwise. That means the veteran servicemember and the green private are to assume that they have as much to benefit from the other as they have to offer the other until a reason to contrary is made known. Age, nor number of years excuses anyone from behaving in a manner that isn't civil and polite.
  
  Personal Attacks
  
  Milnet.ca has a zero tolerance policy for personal attacks, whether against another Milnet.ca member or a public figure. Posts that contain a personal attack should be summarily deleted, and the user should normally receive a warning. Personal attacks detract from the professionalism of the site and can sometimes cause serious problems for Milnet.ca as a whole.
  
  Posting to the Boards
  
  You are responsible for everything that you post and the tone in which it is posted.
  
  The forums are completely public, meaning anyone can come here at any time and review the comments we make. Among the over 10,000 visitors we get every day are members of the press, senior DND officials and a slew of civilians. Visitors to this site range in age, but it is not at all uncommon for 14 year old's to visit, looking for information on a possible career choice. Bear in mind that messages here are never pruned. What you say now will be available on-line for years to come, easily found via search engines all over the Internet.
  
  So before you post, imagine you're in uniform, talking to a room full of the press, 14 year old kids, your CO, and your grandmother.
  
  

  Well, at the risk of derailing this thread further, I will explain why it is preferred that people do not start new topics when there is already one (or several) on the boards.  I'm sure a Mod will come along and explain it much better than I can, but here goes:
  
  It makes the search function less efficient.  If everyone and their dog started a thread basically asking the same question, a search would bring up numerous results.  As it is right now, I understand using Google with "site:army.ca" as part of the search works quite well.  The search function here, maybe not so much except that you can modify to search only in particular threads, etc.
  
  People seem to think that posting a new topic will get more attention, and quite possibly it does, but perhaps not the type of attention the poster was looking for.  Posting in an existing thread on the same topic, will get just as much attention and I daresay it will be a more positive experience.
  
  There's nothing in the guidelines per se, however, there are two points where one can read a little more into them:
  
  "You will not become an administrative burden to the Staff by intentionally or unintentionally creating significant work for them through your actions."  When people start a new topic for every question they have, the Mods have to go and merge those questions into an appropriate thread.  Clearly, this takes time and just as a reminder, all the Mods are volunteers.
  
  "You will not spam the boards. This is usually described as making the same post over and over"  Looking at the OP's posting history, three of their five started topics pretty much deal with whether a trade is in demand or not, which to me is close enough to spamming to call it that.
  
  This thread, I applied to an in demand trade, now it's not in demand... and How do they know?.  The last thread was merged into the second, but posted only six days later and (IMO) could have been tacked onto the second thread to begin with.
  
  So, you say "If I have a question It's only natural I'm going to want to ask that question and I think that is my right".  Sure it is.  Keep in mind this is a privately owned forum and the owner makes the rules.
  
  And this remark, "I'm just not willing to use the search function myself right now if I do not have to as I consider that to not be a priority" just makes you look lazy (to me anyway).
  
  You want to join the military?  Things will not always be easy and you will not always be spoon fed.  Get used to it now.
  
  Not everyone on this forum is here to answer questions.  Some are only here for discussion, etc.  There are more threads on here than just the recruiting ones.
  
  Anyway, I'm sure you get the point (or not).
  
  I see that George Wallace has already replied, and he wasn't half as nice as I was. 
  
  And just to be fair, George, Braveheart isn't the one starting new threads.

  
  
  Thank you for your response Moe, I don't consider myself to be lazy what you might be interpreting as lazy in my post is actually obstinance. I like to understand what I'm doing before I do it. I like to make informed decisions and I don't think there is anything wrong with searching for more information before coming to a decision on something. Unless of course you get yourself banned. I wanted your opinion and now I have it.
  
  I'll use the search feature accordingly as to not become anyone's burden. As well I'd just like to say sorry to all the other noob posters out there that may have had to experience this kind of rejection due to the nature of others.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thank you for your response Moe, I don't consider myself to be lazy what you might be interpreting as lazy in my post is actually obstinance. I like to understand what I'm doing before I do it. I like to make informed decisions and I don't think there is anything wrong with searching for more information before coming to a decision on something. Unless of course you get yourself banned. I wanted your opinion and now I have it.

If you're planning on a military career, especially Infantry, you may want to start working on that obstinacy. There's no place for it there.

And if you do pursue a life in the Infantry you better start learning, at least in the early stages, to just do what you're told. Life and death situations and immediate action to commands is not conducive to the players asking why and what for.

:2c:

 

[Braveheart]

If you're planning on a military career, especially Infantry, you may want to start working on that obstinacy. There's no place for it there.

And if you do pursue a life in the Infantry you better start learning, at least in the early stages, to just do what you're told. Life and death situations and immediate action to commands is not conducive to the players asking why and what for.

:2c:

If the position warrants change then I guess I will have to change. That is what BMQ is for right? I'm well aware of the looming adversity I'll have to face alone because of my personality but I haven't got through life riding clouds and rainbows....okay maybe rainbows but that's besides the point. I will know the "why" at the end of my day.

 

[Loachman]

All that I - we - know of you, we know from your posts. We do not see your body language or actions, and there is no tone in fora such as these or e-mails. Interpretations and judgments - right or wrong - are based purely upon the words that you type.

Call it what you want, but the impressions that you have given so far include laziness, an expectation of special treatment, and, yes, perhaps obstinance.

I, and I suspect quite a few others, expect that you are quite likely to experience some shock and difficulty adjusting to the way of life that you seek, should you be accepted, by your posts. You may indeed end up getting special treatment if you act and speak in a similar way, and it will quite likely help you in the long run, but you may not enjoy it too much at the time of receipt. Your course DS will have met many recruits with attitudes before you show up. You really don't want to be their new plaything.

All but one of the DS here is either currently serving or has served. If you expect us to act in any other manner than we would in our real-life environments, you have made a faulty assumption. We expect a higher standard from members here than would be expected on the average internet forum.

Also, once you've been on this forum for a few years, you may well tire of seeing the same questions asked again and again. You, however, will still not have to spend any of your valuable time merging, consolidating, and cleaning out threads in order to simplify the efforts of those (dearly-appreciated) people that are willing to do their own work for their own benefit by searching.

 

[Braveheart]

Call it what you want as well, I already know not everyone will agree with what I have to say but there are two sides to every coin and I know not everyone feels the same way as yourself. I'm here to represent that demographic because I know the majority of them will not speak up for themselves as to avoid confrontation with others like yourself who will undermine them for reasons still unbeknownst to me.

I do expect this part of my personality to already be an obstacle for me throughout my career as it already is now but that doesn't mean I'm going to change. I have been preparing most of my life for this shock so If you want to think a DS is going to get inside my head then that's your prerogative. The only thing I expect of you or anyone else whether civilian or military for that matter is to act according to and in compliance with the rules and or policies and or laws that have been laid out for you as I would not expect anything less from myself. That is all.

Also I have already stated I can and will comply with trying to keep the forum clean and you can expect me to be using the search feature so these posts regarding my attitude are getting really redundant. If I were lazy or fearful for that matter I wouldn't have taken the time to defend my position against people like yourself because that requires energy believe it or not.

 

[Loachman]

I offered some advice. You are free to take it or leave it.

Ultimately, it will make no difference either way, except to you. Neither the CF nor this Site will be bothered too much.

 

[Braveheart]

Felt more like intimidation. Thank you though. The aim here isn't to bother anyone just trying to open peoples eyes.

 

[Loachman]

I have no need to intimidate. I sought only to educate - and open somebody's eyes.

How one fairs in the world depends largely upon how one approaches it.

I have seen enough people go from failure to failure and blame everyone and everything except the real cause of their problems.

You can be one of those, or not. Your choice, and yours entirely.

Part of what we all have to do in this line of work is accept honest constructive criticism, from DS on courses, superiors, peers, and sometimes even subordinates. It makes us better.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sorry sunshine, you don't have to open my eyes to your individualistic interpretation on how you think the military will bend to your will. Mine have been wide open for nigh on 37 years in uniform.

You were given advice from people that have tons more experience at, not only life in general, but the military also. However, you remain defiant, setting yourself as the favorite of a unnamed and non existent entity, simply for your own ego and self fulfillment.

You are not all of that and icing on top. You will be a nobody, that is at the beck and call of your superiors. You'll do what your told, when your told, and ask for more.

Self superior attitudes like yours have no place in a team environment, as I'm sure your course mates will make you more than aware of, one way or another.

If you intend on making the Infantry your career, you better change your tune. That particular Corps is not very tolerant of prima donna, know nothings, that just end up getting the team in shit because of their self perceived importance.

BTW, that's the end of this conversation. We're finished entertaining your ego. Try to start it again, I'll jump you to the top of the ladder.

Staff