C7 sights: Optical & Iron

[KevinB]

I have heard a few complaints about ACOG zero - mostly it appears on the carry handle mount - and upon closer look the weapons had to have the scopes removed to go into the weapon racks in the weapons room...

The USMC specified the TA31 ACOG as their new optic.

The TA31M (and TA31 'donut of death' with M4A1/M855 range reticle) was the USSOC E-COS favourite.

 

[AlphaCharlie]

Well? I've seen many pictures of our boys with the C79, and many pictures of the yanks with their iron sight, and I'm wondering what the general consensus is on this?

Personally I'd think that Iron Sights would be more practical for urban fighting/short-medium stuff, plus it wouldn't get unzeroed. The C79, however, I would gander is much better for the range as you would get a zoom, which is better.

Also, on the live fire defensive at arcon this year, after about 1000 rounds, my sight on the c9 was crazy unzeroed, it was shooting really high. this happened to anyone else?

 

[Gayson]

The sights loose a little zeroing everytime the weapon gets smacked on something, like a tree or whatnot.

I would personally prefer an ironsight because it has the zeroing issue, and I don't like the tunnel vision it gives you.


I think it would be great if we could choose what sight we wanted.  Grab your rifle than choose what sight to take with you, or you could be issued both when departing for the field.  The rail mounting on the c7 and c9 would make it easy for soldiers to carry iron sights to put on when they needed it for fibua or if the c79 broke.

 

[AlphaCharlie]

I would love that! Too bad it will never happen.

 

[Da_man]

what about a red dot?

 

[Redeye]

The sights loose a little zeroing everytime the weapon gets smacked on something, like a tree or whatnot.

I would personally prefer an ironsight because it has the zeroing issue, and I don't like the tunnel vision it gives you.


I think it would be great if we could choose what sight we wanted.   Grab your rifle than choose what sight to take with you, or you could be issued both when departing for the field.   The rail mounting on the c7 and c9 would make it easy for soldiers to carry iron sights to put on when they needed it for fibua or if the c79 broke.

This isn't some vague idea, this is what should be happening at your unit - we are always issued iron sights, and I (like many) find them superior for the most part.

 

[jonsey]

I haven't shot with either (my shooting experience is limited to two 20 round mags of simunition on a flat top sightless c7), and only have  briefly viewed through either on displays, so take my opinion as that of your average Canadian citizen.

The iron sights just seem to be more practical, to me. They're more streamlined with the rifle, there's the carry handle, and they just felt more solid.  But, hey, what do I know.

 

[Redeye]

Well, with the CF iron sights, there's no carrying handle, it's just a little piece bearing an "A1" style iron sight, plastic mostly, but they are pretty effective.  Irons don't have magnification to adjust to so you can pick up the target very quickly - more so that with the optics - and the C79 is notorious for losing its zero with great speed.  A troop who has practices with irons - at least inside 300m - should have no trouble with them.

 

[Spooks]

"I think it would be great if we could choose what sight we wanted.  Grab your rifle than choose what sight to take with you, or you could be issued both when departing for the field.  The rail mounting on the c7 and c9 would make it easy for soldiers to carry iron sights to put on when they needed it for fibua or if the c79 broke."

I have both. The iron sight mounts on the rail. It's fun, and I have it as my backup. Our C9's use Irons now since the vibration of the weapon was unzeroing the C79. I shot that and found it fine to engage a target. I like the C79 on the C7 for the long range accuracy. If I'm worried about tunnel vision in FIBUA, then I don't look through the scope.

-Spooks

 

[PteCamp]

When I did my basic we had the Iron sights on our weapons, and I gotta admit I hated it, I couldn't see a thing. I failed my weapons test twice.
Once I got back to my unit though we have the C79's on our weapons and it's 10x better. I think I would much rather have the C79.

 

[MG34]

Iron sights all the way,with the exception of an EOTech holographic sight.Iron sights should always be availible and ready for use as the Elcan is a piece of junk ,it is not a question of if it will fail but when.The Elcan is useless in  snow and rain,at least with iron sights you can just blow the crap off of them.

 

[KevinB]

Ditto to MG34 - the C79 needs a long walk off a short pier.

EOTECH and IRONS

and one of our guys with his Aimpoint.

 

[Gayson]

I was told by a Mcpl once that the c79 also throws the center of gravity of the rifle off slightly, reducing accuracy.  Is this true?  I always thought the C79 sits directly above the center of gravity on the C7.

 

[ackland]

I was told by a Mcpl once that the c79 also throws the center of gravity of the rifle off slightly, reducing accuracy.   Is this true?   I always thought the C79 sits directly above the center of gravity on the C7.

The sight moves on the rails to allow for the shooter to adjust their sight picture. Since it moves from front to rear it can not be at center of gravity.

Well, with the CF iron sights, there's no carrying handle, it's just a little piece bearing an "A1" style iron sight, plastic mostly,

But if we went back to the C7 no A1 or A2 we would ahve a carrying handle and that would be great with me.

 

[AlphaCharlie]

Do most units have Iron Sights in their stores or whatnot? Could I put in a memo to see if we could be issued IS with our EIS?

 

[ackland]

Do most units have Iron Sights in their stores or whatnot? Could I put in a memo to see if we could be issued IS with our EIS?

What you are refering to is the battle sight. Although similar to the Iron Sight it is not. The iron sight was exactly that an iron sight mounted on a carrying handle. much more effective I found. The battle sight is very similar but vulnerable to defects as it is PLASTIC. :sniper:

 

[scm77]

Nice pics Kevin.  Do you have any more you can share?

 

[KevinB]

I will start a thread somehwere else for pics

http://army.ca/forums/threads/19301.0.html

 

[armdsgt]

The C79 Optical sight is a good sight if utilized correctly.  The same as a commander in an armed veh, first "I scan with my eyes, I scan with my binos".  Yes, if you keep your ONE open eye in the sight for the duration of the engagement, you will not have peripheral vision.  However, the good lord gave you two eyes, use them BOTH.


Perseverance

 

[KevinB]

Armdsgt - the C79 is not a good sight for what we need.

The TA31 ACOG, Nightforce 1-4 and EOTECH552 should be acquired in a mixed for the sectiosn so they can tailor the weapons to the mission.

The C79 is a failure thru and thru