CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

[daftandbarmy]

Does your local Reserve Service Battalion have a few dozen RCEME techs that know how to maintain Leopard tanks? Asking for a friend.

I'm sure there are a few who 'identify' as expert tank Fitters

 

[dimsum]

which flies in the face of two sacred cows: the regimental system and managed readiness.

Again:

Royal Australian Regiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Large-scale accompanied rotational unit postings to Europe are incompatible with our current policies on screening families for OUTCAN. The medical, social work, and educational worlds are quick to DAG families red, even if the soldier themselves is fit to fight. Our policies were very different in the Cold War.

We really have two choices — 6 to 12 month unaccompanied, which seem to be a major dissatisfier, even with tax free status, or posting individual volunteers to Europe long term, which flies in the face of two sacred cows: the regimental system and managed readiness.

In my world, I’d go with option number two - fill Latvia with whoever wants to go there and can DAG green, regimental affiliation be damned, and let them stay as long as they want (up to the seven year cap).

And with our "creative" ORBATs and hodge podge collections of equipment, we can call it a "Demi-Brigade"

Demi-brigade - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[KevinB]

Large-scale accompanied rotational unit postings to Europe are incompatible with our current policies on screening families for OUTCAN. The medical, social work, and educational worlds are quick to DAG families red, even if the soldier themselves is fit to fight. Our policies were very different in the Cold War.

We really have two choices — 6 to 12 month unaccompanied, which seem to be a major dissatisfier, even with tax free status, or posting individual volunteers to Europe long term, which flies in the face of two sacred cows: the regimental system and managed readiness.

In my world, I’d go with option number two - fill Latvia with whoever wants to go there and can DAG green, regimental affiliation be damned, and let them stay as long as they want (up to the seven year cap).

Maybe some of those policies need to be put under review

 

[Maxman1]

Maybe we should reestablish a base in Germany, where troops and their families can be posted long term.

 

[FJAG]

Large-scale accompanied rotational unit postings to Europe are incompatible with our current policies on screening families for OUTCAN. The medical, social work, and educational worlds are quick to DAG families red, even if the soldier themselves is fit to fight. Our policies were very different in the Cold War.

You. Have. To. Be. Shitting. Me.

We're selecting people for roles as tankers and grunts and gunners. We're not selecting the diplomatic corps for service with the embassy in Vienna. We're actually screening families to see if they are fit to family overseas. We've become entirely too risk averse. Live is messy sometimes. Families are messy sometimes. But the majority are fairly stable. I have no idea what these policies are but they should be commensurate with the role the soldier is filling. I really don't think that the family dynamic has change much from the Cold War to today. If there is a bottleneck then it would seem to me to be more an issue of the policies rather than the families. You can change policies.

We really have two choices — 6 to 12 month unaccompanied, which seem to be a major dissatisfier, even with tax free status, or posting individual volunteers to Europe long term, which flies in the face of two sacred cows: the regimental system and managed readiness.

In my world, I’d go with option number two - fill Latvia with whoever wants to go there and can DAG green, regimental affiliation be damned, and let them stay as long as they want (up to the seven year cap).

I'd go with choice two as well - hands down. Do what we did 70 years ago and activate several ResF regiments in Latvia as full-time units and post people into them as ERE postings. I'm not against managed readiness or tiered readiness. I'm just not a fan of the current system.

 

[GK .Dundas]

And with our "creative" ORBATs and hodge podge collections of equipment, we can call it a "Demi-Brigade"

Demi-brigade - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Or there's always the Legions of the American army of the early 1800's.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You. Have. To. Be. Shitting. Me.

I had a CO who was rarely seen on exercises because, as he loudly proclaimed frequently, of the priority he placed on his family. I think he coached his daughter's basketball team, or something like that.

The rest of us who had families? We were usually out in the field because: Leadership.

He was promoted pretty rapidly to General, so I assume he knew what he was doing... even though I (and others) had zero respect for him.

 

[FJAG]

Or there's always the Legions of the American army of the early 1800's.

And the Spanish Army's Tercio.

Tercio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FJAG]

I had a CO who was rarely seen on exercises because, as he loudly proclaimed frequently, of the priority he placed on his family. I think he coached his daughter's basketball team, or something like that.

The rest of us who had families? We were usually out in the field because: Leadership.

He was promoted pretty rapidly to General, so I assume he knew what he was doing... even though I (and others) had zero respect for him.

Strikes me that your former leadership needed a little Rule 303 persuasion.

 

[markppcli]

Reservists be like ....

Could they show up with security clearances and pass ports this time ? Preferably with the advice from their home units that these will be “waived for deployment.”

 

[daftandbarmy]

Could they show up with security clearances and pass ports this time ? Preferably with the advice from their home units that these will be “waived for deployment.”

That would probably be easier than achieving 'Dental Fit'

 

[childs56]

You could always do a 30 and 30 rotation. Offer tax free on their pay for time over seas and leave them alone on 30 days off other then some minor admin and or career courses. Run one Brigade for a year posting. Rotate their Soldiers every thirty days. It would take a bit of organization and a few people to change their thoughts. It is a workable solution that a few industries do around the world on a regular basis. It would take some adjustment time, in the end I think it would be a good solution.

 

[YZT580]

You. Have. To. Be. Shitting. Me.

We're selecting people for roles as tankers and grunts and gunners. We're not selecting the diplomatic corps for service with the embassy in Vienna. We're actually screening families to see if they are fit to family overseas. We've become entirely too risk averse. Live is messy sometimes. Families are messy sometimes. But the majority are fairly stable. I have no idea what these policies are but they should be commensurate with the role the soldier is filling. I really don't think that the family dynamic has change much from the Cold War to today. If there is a bottleneck then it would seem to me to be more an issue of the policies rather than the families. You can change policies.




I'd go with choice two as well - hands down. Do what we did 70 years ago and activate several ResF regiments in Latvia as full-time units and post people into them as ERE postings. I'm not against managed readiness or tiered readiness. I'm just not a fan of the current system.

The big objections primarily focus on money. Your average civil servant in finance is extremely jealous of what they consider extra-ordinary perks that go with an off-shore extended posting. Thus you have overseas times of less than 90 days or less than 6months to prevent having to pay for spousal travel or a trip home to see the kids. The notion of having to pay some tank driver's housing, school costs, and whatever would cause them to produce all kinds of studies and surveys explaining why this is the worst concept and the short term unaccompanied is best. It is the best but only for budget. Nothing, but nothing produces better morale than a family at the door EVERY night when you get home from work. I know first hand. I have spent the better part of a decade offshore or on the road and lived it both ways

 

[OldSolduer]

3 Mech Commando enters the chat

 

[dimsum]

Your average civil servant in finance is extremely jealous of what they consider extra-ordinary perks that go with an off-shore extended posting.

The average civil servant doesn't even like the fact that most CAF members don't pay parking at their place of work (aside from NCR and Halifax - and that is a completely different thread that I don't want to get into right now), or would have subsidies on some of their housing.

The argument that CAF members, unlike civil servants, can be posted with zero notice anywhere and maybe that might impose some unforeseen costs that the govt might want to mitigate goes over their (collective) heads.

"You signed up for this" could easily be countered with "well, you signed up not to ever move if you so desire, so you can plan for the $200/month in parking at Ottawa City Hall for the next 30 years. Pte Bloggins didn't."

 

[GR66]

Your average civil servant in finance is extremely jealous of what they consider extra-ordinary perks that go with an off-shore extended posting.

The "average" civil servant should have SFA to say about the policy and have no input other than to implement the policy that is enacted from on high. If the issue is with the senior TB civil servants then it's up to the CAF leadership to convince the MND to push the issue and make the changes to policy required.

 

[YZT580]

The "average" civil servant should have SFA to say about the policy and have no input other than to implement the policy that is enacted from on high. If the issue is with the senior TB civil servants then it's up to the CAF leadership to convince the MND to push the issue and make the changes to policy required.

Theoretically you are correct but a diligent civil servant can create no end of road blocks. His boss says we need to reduce expenses so he sends out an inter-office instructing base personnel that where possible shorten short term deployments to say 28 days or maybe 7 weeks to keep it under a level where an extra benefit must be paid. His boss is satisfied, you get nothing and some poor major who has no say in the matter has to explain to his boss why people are quitting. Just one of many issues that your civil servant with sfa to say can screw up the works and it is all in the name of efficiency and hard to argue against logically.

 

[GR66]

The average civil servant doesn't even like the fact that most CAF members don't pay parking at their place of work (aside from NCR and Halifax - and that is a completely different thread that I don't want to get into right now), or would have subsidies on some of their housing.

Give them directions to the nearest recruiting center if they are so jealous of what the military gets.

 

[markppcli]

You could always do a 30 and 30 rotation. Offer tax free on their pay for time over seas and leave them alone on 30 days off other then some minor admin and or career courses. Run one Brigade for a year posting. Rotate their Soldiers every thirty days. It would take a bit of organization and a few people to change their thoughts. It is a workable solution that a few industries do around the world on a regular basis. It would take some adjustment time, in the end I think it would be a good solution.

That would be an absolute fucking shit show. But it would also probably mean no one actually gets any benefits for a deployment, and all the administrative head aches will be handled by the CAF so I’m sure the government will adopt it.


Let’s just logic this out for you. On average it’s takes about two weeks to do a RIP on deployment. It involves signing iver every piece of kit, transferring weapons, ect ect. I know it’s standard for the oil field, but the oil field and a deployment in the army are not the same.