CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

[KevinB]

2007 I arrived at 1 VP in April, to deploy in February 2008.

I suspect he was talking about the regular force pers and specific TMST, as opposed to the augmentees.

 

[Infanteer]

Yes, people showed up early, but it wasn't for "pre-deployment training." Most of those activities were normal in-year training activities that would have been done even without a deployment (PCF courses, etc). I recall actual pre-deployment training consisting of a Bde live fire training event that went from Level 3 to level 6 and then MAPLE GUARDIAN - about 2 months in total.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes, people showed up early, but it wasn't for "pre-deployment training." Most of those activities were normal in-year training activities that would have been done even without a deployment (PCF courses, etc). I recall actual pre-deployment training consisting of a Bde live fire training event that went from Level 3 to level 6 and then MAPLE GUARDIAN - about 2 months in total.

So it was training, done pre deployment, for the upcoming deployment... But it wasn't pre-employment training because it wasn't Bde level fire training... Ok gotcha.

 

[FJAG]

Take note that nobody does six months of predeployment training now, nor did we in Afghanistan when we were actually fighting (the prep exercises were roughly 2 months).

Also take note that your anecdote is for a short duration exercise. We've deployed elements on international exercises all over in much the same manner.

No. The exercise wasn't the point of what I was talking about.

What I was expressing was that we were a designated ready force with an operational role to augment 4 CMBG on a moment's notice. It's the type of role one could fulfill in Latvia if we chose to have a part of the force as fly-over augmentees. It was essentially an anecdote that one doesn't need a two-week RIP when one simply augments a core staff that's posted in full-time and fully experienced with the situation rather than replacing an entire rotation with a whole new crew.

We did nothing out of the ordinary to prepare for that role. We simply continued in our regular annual training cycle as a self propelled battery in a self propelled regiment.

 

[markppcli]

Yes, people showed up early, but it wasn't for "pre-deployment training." Most of those activities were normal in-year training activities that would have been done even without a deployment (PCF courses, etc). I recall actual pre-deployment training consisting of a Bde live fire training event that went from Level 3 to level 6 and then MAPLE GUARDIAN - about 2 months in total.

Would you call the training units did to get read for Maple Guardian pre deployment training? I think this is splitting hairs. Every reservist on 1-08 was there for 10 months. Most didn’t do a lot of PCF, they did training to prepare for deployment. The formal validation was MG, but validation was far from the only trg being done.

 

[Infanteer]

So it was training, done pre deployment, for the upcoming deployment... But it wasn't pre-employment training because it wasn't Bde level fire training... Ok gotcha.

Level 3 isn't "brigade level fire training."

Would you call the training units did to get read for Maple Guardian pre deployment training? I think this is splitting hairs. Every reservist on 1-08 was there for 10 months. Most didn’t do a lot of PCF, they did training to prepare for deployment. The formal validation was MG, but validation was far from the only trg being done.

The training units did to get ready for Maple Guardian was the brigade training event.

I don't think it is splitting hairs because I often see the quote that "the pre-deployment training was longer than the tour!" and use it as some sort of j'accuse that the Army was over training. Much of what was done in that period was just normal unit routine.

Yes, people showed up early. Part of that was because we needed to pull folks from all over the place to build new sub-units from scratch. But when you break down what actually happened, the actual pre-deployment training to get a BG validated for deployment only took about 6-8 weeks. And even that was probably too much as Maple Guardian had a hideously overwrought MEL that stretched out pre-planned events while elements were sitting around doing nothing.

Here is am example of a unit getting ready for Afghanistan:

Feb/Mar - Augmentees arrive
Apr - Bde Trg Event
May/Jun - Maple Guardian
Jun/Jul - PCF
Aug - Summer leave
Sep - low level trg, pre-deployment leave
Oct - deploy.

That said, the Army's preps of Latvia and for deployments in general these days much smarter. Individual augmentees who show up from Ottawa with no current quals can be prepared in two weeks, and BGs have gotten that 8 month period down to 60-90 days.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Back in the Cold war days, Reservists were flown over to take part in Reforger exercises with no real prep. The army and the reservists both survived. There are lots of jobs the Reservists can do that do not involve the direct pointy end, manning LAV's and tanks. Bringing reserve members over for training, builds up a knowledge base at home, so finding experienced bodies in a pinch becomes easier in the future.

 

[KevinB]

Back in the Cold war days, Reservists were flown over to take part in Reforger exercises with no real prep. The army and the reservists both survived. There are lots of jobs the Reservists can do that do not involve the direct pointy end, manning LAV's and tanks. Bringing reserve members over for training, builds up a knowledge base at home, so finding experienced bodies in a pinch becomes easier in the future.

Reforger, plus Norway (was that CAST or AMF/L I no longer remember)
Back then a lot of Arty positions were fairly plug and play for Reg/PRes at least at the junior NCO and JrO levels.
Being a gun number on a D or F Bty C1 didn’t require anything else, and even filling in a L-5 gun number didn’t take long to fill for E Bty Para (provided one was already a jumper or it wasn’t an Abn ex).
There were a lot of driver jobs for all trades as well.

That said, it was a vastly different time, when 524 sets and the PRC25 (then 77) where the radios that one used. You may or may not have seen the stupid Vincent or the other idiotic encrypted thing that never worked.

 

[Blackadder1916]

You may or may not have seen the stupid Vincent VINSON or the other idiotic encrypted thing that never worked.

KY57

NESTOR

KY38

KYK-13

They were better than having to send everything in CANFORNACODE or CANOPSCODE all the time.

 

[FJAG]

Reforger, plus Norway (was that CAST or AMF/L I no longer remember)

Norway was both CAST and AMF(L).

AMF(L) went over a lot. I think CAST only did one deployment after which they moved them off the Norway role and made them part of Canada's 1 Div CENTAG reserve. To the best of my knowledge they never deployed on that as a formation, just CPXs and study groups, I think.

 

[KevinB]

KY57

NESTOR

KY38

KYK-13

They were better than having to send everything in CANFORNACODE or CANOPSCODE all the time.

Actually I think I goofed an era - as we had an early ‘digital’ kit for the 77 set and a keypad for it (circa 1996). Which was after those.
It reminds me of the 152 KDU, but earlier and clumsy to use.

Closest I’ve come to a good picture was from Wiki

But I can’t find anything related to the Keyboard unit.

My experience with them when trying to use it for Layback Patrol work with the PRC-77 was they didn’t work - and just generated hatred.

 

[FJAG]

Yup.

That, or something like it, looks familiar.

 

[KevinB]

KL43 jumps to mind - but I could be wrong.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Actually I think I goofed an era - as we had an early ‘digital’ kit for the 77 set and a keypad for it (circa 1996). Which was after those.
It reminds me of the 152 KDU, but earlier and clumsy to use.

Closest I’ve come to a good picture was from Wiki
View attachment 78231
But I can’t find anything related to the Keyboard unit.

My experience with them when trying to use it for Layback Patrol work with the PRC-77 was they didn’t work - and just generated hatred.

Looks like this is it.

CVX-396

www.cryptomuseum.com

I've no experience with it, other than seeing it in German set-ups.

 

[KevinB]

Looks like this is it.

CVX-396

www.cryptomuseum.com

I've no experience with it, other than seeing it in German set-ups.

The keypad went with it IIRC which I thought was the KL43. But again my memory is pretty sketchy from that period.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Level 3 isn't "brigade level fire training."

Sure, I don't really care, cool guys don't look at explosions.. I was trying to use your terminology.

I wont debate that there was a ton of dead space in that WUP training, but it was WUP training none the less.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Meanwhile, Germany is posting a Brigade into Lithuania ...

Germany ready to put 4,000 soldiers permanently in Lithuania​

Germany ready to put 4,000 soldiers permanently in Lithuania

Infrastructure and training facilities need to be constructed.

www.politico.eu

 

[markppcli]

Meanwhile, Germany is posting a Brigade into Lithuania ...

Germany ready to put 4,000 soldiers permanently in Lithuania​

Germany ready to put 4,000 soldiers permanently in Lithuania

Infrastructure and training facilities need to be constructed.

www.politico.eu

End result being an improvement in both nations sense of humour.

I wonder if they’ll take the tradition route via Kaliningrad ?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

End result being an improvement in both nations sense of humour.

I wonder if they’ll take the tradition route via Kaliningrad Królwiec?

FTFY

There are a lot of folks just south of there that weren't happy in 1990 with the "Final Settlement" treaty between Germany and Russia...that they weren't invited to.

 

[FJAG]

End result being an improvement in both nations sense of humour.

I wonder if they’ll take the tradition route via Kaliningrad Königsberg ?

FTFY yet again.