CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Fishbone Jones]

Absolutely nobody here is saying that. Maybe you’re reading that elsewhere but you certainly aren’t on army.ca.



I accept that you’re concerned about economic impacts and job losses. You live in a part of Ontario heavily involved in the auto sector, where a whole ton of jobs are about to be lost because of Trump’s tariffs.

Do you place any responsibility for what’s about to happen on Trump for violating the existing trade treaty and imposing 25% tariffs on most of our economic sectors? Or are you giving him a freebie on his tariffs but condemning ours in response?

Feel free to go through my posts and find where I said I agree with his use of tariffs.

I am on the fence, in the middle, not overly concerned of the tariffs on either side being the end game. I can think beyond the here and now and extreme rhetoric from both sides. I can see the tariff issue as a means to drive both sides into a negotiated settlement. Rather than hang around and not be able to see beyond the tariff starting blocks. Which trudeau just did. Retaliating in the here and now instead of looking a few steps further down the process.

I think both sides are wrong in the use of tariffs, but I think, maybe, Trump is using this as a cudgel. He knows the broken promises, hedging and dishonest discussions of dealing with trudeau and his jellyfish. This might well have been designed to make people act. However, they respond. It's shit or get off the pot time and break a few eggs. Not time to make appeasing pseudo agreements still outstanding 4 years from now.

Call it stupid, call it fanciful or whatever else you want. We need someone that can get in to see him and speak on his level, like Kevin O'Leary, who has the skills and is already in on the favourful edge of Trumps circle. We need to have someone sit across the table and say "what's your bottom line and how do we make it a win, win for us both. Trump needs to see we are serious about our commitments, including NATO. We need to put our money where our mouth is and move on from the petty games.

So, as you can see, I've never been for the tariffs on either side, I'm for finding out the end game and negotiating, in good faith for a change, a way to get there advantagous to both of us.

 

[Remius]

Your opinion is worth as much as mine or anyone else’s out there. Enjoy the show.

I’ll give you that. I still stand by my statement. The fact you think this is a show proves my point.

At the very least Canadian patriotism is at all time high in the face of a threat. And maybe we can get off our economic vulnerability by having an unreliable ally that will flex anytime it wants something.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Again ?

A mod warning a few pages back.

 

[Kirkhill]

Absolutely which is why it is time to get away from the sole source that is the US. They are not reliable or stable in that regard, treaties be damned.

We have one of our rare moments of agreement.

If a treaty is abrogated then two responses are possible:

Fight to restore the treaty.

Chuck the treaty out the window.

Chucking the treaty presents many more opportunities.

 

[ModlrMike]

Opportunity is born of chaos, and we are about to face substantial chaos. It's time for us to broaden our supply chains so that we're not so dependent on the US. For example, do we need citrus from Florida or California? No, we can get that from any number of other stable sources. Will there be short term pain? Yes, but we will adjust to slightly higher prices for goods over time.

 

[MilEME09]

Feel free to go through my posts and find where I said I agree with his use of tariffs.

I am on the fence, in the middle, not overly concerned of the tariffs on either side being the end game. I can think beyond the here and now and extreme rhetoric from both sides. I can see the tariff issue as a means to drive both sides into a negotiated settlement. Rather than hang around and not be able to see beyond the tariff starting blocks. Which trudeau just did. Retaliating in the here and now instead of looking a few steps further down the process.

I think both sides are wrong in the use of tariffs, but I think, maybe, Trump is using this as a cudgel. He knows the broken promises, hedging and dishonest discussions of dealing with trudeau and his jellyfish. This might well have been designed to make people act. However, they respond. It's shit or get off the pot time and break a few eggs. Not time to make appeasing pseudo agreements still outstanding 4 years from now.

Call it stupid, call it fanciful or whatever else you want. We need someone that can get in to see him and speak on his level, like Kevin O'Leary, who has the skills and is already in on the favourful edge of Trumps circle. We need to have someone sit across the table and say "what's your bottom line and how do we make it a win, win for us both. Trump needs to see we are serious about our commitments, including NATO. We need to put our money where our mouth is and move on from the petty games.

So, as you can see, I've never been for the tariffs on either side, I'm for finding out the end game and negotiating, in good faith for a change, a way to get there advantagous to both of us.

Well on the procurement front, if we wanna talk defense spending. America is now an untrustworthy partner for atleast 4 years, South Korea wants out business, let's give it to them, let's buy subs, howitzers, lead in fighter trainers etc, get them to build factories In Ontario. Convert existing factories that might get hard hit by US tariffs.

 

[FJAG]

Not surprised that in a CND/US trade tariff war thread the biggest thing Canadians worry about is alcohol. Buncha alcoholics.

Great time more than any to cut back on that poison.

My beer and wine comes from Europe. I'm golden.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

But if Glenora was distilled on Islay, it would take on some of the typical characteristics of Islay whisky. They would use local water and probably like most of the Islay distillers would likely "peat" their malt. That would significantly change the taste. And yes, the differences in water, peat, grain, still and climate translate to differences in taste.

This past Robbie Burns Day, I took advantage of a "Burns Day Special" at a local liquor store and bought two Islays,
a Bowmore 12 Y.O. View attachment 90961

and a Laphroaig Quarter Cask View attachment 90962 .

Differences between both, even though both distilleries are now owned by the same Scottish distiller company which is now a subsidiary of
Suntory Global Spirits (that also owns Jim Beam, et al), an American corporation which is a subsidiary of the Japanese beverage company Suntory. And while a discussion of whisky may seem to be straying from a thread about tariffs (maybe we should have a whisky thread), it is a fair example of globalization of ownership.

I love peated Irish whisky. Irish, not scotch. Scotch is what resulted when the Crown forbade the Irish to make whisky. The Scots started making it and cut enough corners to make it friendly to their uncouth palette.

 

[Remius]

My beer and wine comes from Europe. I'm golden.

VQA wine, local craft beer (I’m a beer snob) and Canadian whiskeys and single malt stuff from Scotland. Not overly worried either.

The only one might be my rhum. I like The Kraken dark rhum. Not sure where that is made. I should check.

Edit: made in Indiana. Damn. Ah well I guess I’ll have to stretch out the bottle I have

 

[Remius]

I love peated Irish whisky. Irish, not scotch. Scotch is what resulted when the Crown forbade the Irish to make whisky. The Scots started making it and cut enough corners to make it friendly to their uncouth palette.

Have a bottle of Bushmills Black that I have yet to crack open. My cottage whiskey.

 

[dapaterson]

The only one might be my rhum. I like The Kraken dark rhum. Not sure where that is made. I should check.

"Kraken Black Spiced Rum is a Caribbean black spiced rum.[1] The brand is owned and distributed by Proximo Spirits of Jersey City, New Jersey"

 

[RangerRay]

A lot of countries in Latin America, Africa and Asia-Pacific that are now going to see Beijing as a more reliable trade partner. And Beijing doesn’t ask pesky questions about corruption and human rights rights.

 

[Remius]

"Kraken Black Spiced Rum is a Caribbean black spiced rum.[1] The brand is owned and distributed by Proximo Spirits of Jersey City, New Jersey"

The bottle I checked is from Indiana. Sacrifices will have to be made I guess

 

[Cloud Cover]

View attachment 90957
So there it is. Trump Tariffs are just his weapon for the Anschluss Kanada.

I’d actually be content to pay some more taxes to support a deficit that compensated BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Quebec businesses and enact a 30-day shutdown of ALL energy to the US….oil, gas, electricity…so how fragile the U.S. really is. They simply couldn’t pivot their west Texas intermediate up into idled northern and mid-west refineries fast enough…and eastern seaboard US cities would have rolling blackouts…

As far as BC is concerned, I’d like to say keep your money. This provincial government could weather this dispute if they would only stop funding stupid things, and maybe try criminalizing possession of hard drugs like you know … Fentanyl.

 

[Kirkhill]

Well on the procurement front, if we wanna talk defense spending. America is now an untrustworthy partner for atleast 4 years, South Korea wants out business, let's give it to them, let's buy subs, howitzers, lead in fighter trainers etc, get them to build factories In Ontario. Convert existing factories that might get hard hit by US tariffs.

With respect to military procurement look at the competitors for US Army equipment.

See many US vendors?

I see BAE (British Aerospace) and Rheinmetall. I see Hagglunds. I see MAN, Archer, Lynx, Caesar, CV90, BvS10, Puma, CB90. AIP subs are all foreign build. I see Hanwha and Hyundai and South Koreans and Japanese teaching the rest of the world how to run shipyards along with the Dutch and the Norwegians. Israelis and Turks.

Ukrainian TTPs.

The US has been standing pat since the Reagan years.

 

[RangerRay]

"Kraken Black Spiced Rum is a Caribbean black spiced rum.[1] The brand is owned and distributed by Proximo Spirits of Jersey City, New Jersey"

Back to Lamb’s for me I guess. I can’t find Pusser’s anywhere in Manitoba. I have to go to Fargo for that.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Under both of those "why" scenarios the broadstrokes outlook is the same- longterm we need to develop a more diverse and robust economy, with more self reliance and more east- west international trade.

There's more complexity under the 3rd option- coersion to satisfy non annexation geopolitical goals. In that scenario we still need to make the shift so that we will not be so exposed in the future, but also make a concerted effort to see if there is a way to satisfy those goals without completely sacfricing our sovereignty

If his aim is territorial expansion then Canada having all the trading partners in the world won’t make a difference.
He’ll just arrange for a radio station to be “attacked”.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Have a bottle of Bushmills Black that I have yet to crack open. My cottage whiskey.

What I'll typically order in a bar, if the better ones aren't available. If you have a chance for Duty Free, try their blue label Bushmills. Expensive here but cheap at the DF.

 

[Kirkhill]

If we were to make the assumption that President Trumps aim and intent of tariffs is territorial acquisition, So What?
What actions does Canada take that are fully within our control? How are they different than if President Trumps aim and intent is the US economy?

I guess we could park a Leopard at each port of entry. They wouldn't have to roll far once they got off the flatbed.

 

[Remius]

What I'll typically order in a bar, if the better ones aren't available. If you have a chance for Duty Free, try their blue label Bushmills. Expensive here but cheap at the DF.

It’s why it’s my cottage drink. Haven’t had the blue label yet but will consider it next time I go in for a booze run.