CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)
- Thread starter Remius
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I’d actually be content to pay some more taxes to support a deficit that compensated BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Quebec businesses and enact a 30-day shutdown of ALL energy to the US….oil, gas, electricity…so how fragile the U.S. really is. They simply couldn’t pivot their west Texas intermediate up into idled northern and mid-west refineries fast enough…and eastern seaboard US cities would have rolling blackouts…
Haggis
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True, to a point. Export checks are a thing. If we know a particular commodity is regulated we can impose export controls on it under the Export and Import Permits Act. But that only works if it's being legally exported. Otherwise, it's smuggling.
People are different. It's up to the USCBP to determine if a person is admissible to the US or not, not Canada. CBSA does not have a list of who POTUS47 has named as "undesirable" or "unwelcome" by name or nationality.
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For the record, the "List of products from the United States subject to 25 per cent tariffs effective February 4, 2025"
www.canada.ca
Also archived here and attached (229 pages).
List of products from the United States subject to 25 per cent tariffs effective February 4, 2025 - Canada.ca
Effective February 4, 2025, the government is imposing 25 per cent tariffs on $30 billion in goods imported from the United States (U.S.).
That would be spicy, but would need all premiers on board and a federal centre tough enough to 1) herd said premiers, and 2) grit their teeth and do it.
My concern with this is that would be an exceptionally grave provocation that would credibly threaten their national interests in a way that they wouldn’t hear us out on. It’s fun to think of shutting down all energy exports and cutting off electricity on Super Bowl Sunday, or making gas more expensive for nascar races and such.
But It wouldn’t play like that. Republicans would phrase it as a ‘blockade’, would emphasize losing critical and safety-sensitive services. We don’t want them to see that as a national security vulnerability and to respond accordingly. We don’t want to put wind in the sails of actually using force. It would also have a massive cost to Canadians and would exacerbate existing divides we have. Albertans don’t want a government cheque, they want a paycheque that says ‘Cenovus’ on it. And that’s totally reasonable.
I’m all for hurting them back, but in ways that don’t provide a single evening news focal point where they can play the victim of a disproportionate ‘attack’. Add cost, pressure and friction to their economy in ways and places that will hurt Trump’s image and will hurt him politically. Coordinate with allied trading blocs on this. Amplify to Americans the cost of the “Trump tax”. Take his rhetoric about cost of living and force it back down his throat.
As I think back to every bullshit neighbour dispute file I’ve attended, at the end of all this once it simmers down we’re still gonna be neighbours. We still want the door open to barrier free interconnected trade. That’s still best for Canadians and for Americans. Start by closing the doors we can most easily reopen.
Brad Sallows
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As I've written, we need calm people calling the shots. Canada's sovereignty isn't in imminent danger - we choose how to respond. The US isn't in imminent danger of becoming some authoritarian playground. People who didn't and don't support Trump don't deserve to be dragged into this, and that's a large number of people even in states whose EC votes went to Trump. Nor does everyone who voted for Trump necessarily support this particular thing right now - it's unavoidably part of the package they voted for because they could only choose between two packages, but that doesn't mean that their support in favour of us on this issue has to be yielded unfought due to ham-fisted emotionally-driven lackwit unimaginative economically ruinous self-destructive responses by people who can't hear Trump talk nonsense about 51st states without their hind brains taking over and who think that a prospective recession on par with recessions we've previously endured is suddenly an existential crisis. I can see our future US licence plate : Canada, the Chicken Little State.
Everyone lining up for "trade war" reminds me of every other stupid foolish imbecilic person who joined in a rush to conflict somewhere, sometime, because their patriotic sensibilities and feelings were hurt, and also the litany of self-serving ridiculous mostly abstract excuses they offered to justify their belligerent rush to seek the worst possible outcomes.
lenaitch
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Wiki's summary of the Scotch Whisky Regulations:
"Scotch whisky" as whisky that:
- Is produced at a distillery in Scotland from water and malted barley (to which only whole grains of other cereals may be added) all of which have been:
- Processed at that distillery into a mash
- Converted at that distillery to a fermentable substrate only by endogenous enzyme systems
- Fermented at that distillery only by adding yeast
- Has been distilled at an alcoholic strength by volume of less than 94.8% (190 US proof)
- Is wholly matured in an excise warehouse in Scotland in oak casks of a capacity not exceeding 700 litres (185 US gal; 154 imp gal) for at least three years
- Retains the colour, aroma, and taste of the raw materials used in, and the method of, its production and maturation
- Contains no added substances, other than water and plain (E150A) caramel colouring
- Has a minimum alcoholic strength by volume of 40% (80 US proof)
Jarnhamar
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Posturing Reddit has gotten pretty humorous.
RangerRay
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Teddy Roosevelt got rid of the robber baron oligopoly. Trump is inviting them in.
I’m not calling the shots, my opinion and words are forceful but I am very calm. I’m simply not blithely unaware of global context or of history, nor am I in denial about the sort of individual we’re dealing with here and what he will and won’t respond to.
Populations suffer for the actions of their leaders. That’s another recurring theme here. Americans as a whole elected Trump. There is no way to precisely limit repercussions to those who specifically voted for him. Targeting constituencies where he has the most support is the best we can do.
Americans can pressure their government to smarten up. They can do it now, they can do it in the midterms, whatever. They don’t get to be immune from reciprocal economic pressure because of their political leadership’s stupid choices.
Halifax Tar
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Just finished watching that. He was impressive.
I do think he needs to knock it off a big with the jinggos and rhymes.
Other than that I'm more than happy with his approach.
Biases admitted.
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I have a question
Lots of people saying fuck Trump, let's piss him off with our own tariffs. Ignore his wishes to stop fentanyl and terrorists going south from here. We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.
Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.
This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.
Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.
Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?
Who cares how much hardship we can bring to the Americans? How it will affect them? Worry about Canadians. This is not a war. This is not spiteful. Trump is doing what he thinks best for his country and citizens, even if we think it's personal. It's a negotiation. Trump has thrown his first card, now we need to see how low he will go and to find out where our common ground is so we can grow that.
Trudeau is as useless, in this, as tits on a bull.
Lots of people saying fuck Trump, let's piss him off with our own tariffs. Ignore his wishes to stop fentanyl and terrorists going south from here. We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.
Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.
This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.
Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.
Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?
Who cares how much hardship we can bring to the Americans? How it will affect them? Worry about Canadians. This is not a war. This is not spiteful. Trump is doing what he thinks best for his country and citizens, even if we think it's personal. It's a negotiation. Trump has thrown his first card, now we need to see how low he will go and to find out where our common ground is so we can grow that.
Trudeau is as useless, in this, as tits on a bull.
They aren’t, they still think this is about the border or some vendetta against Trudeau. It isn’t and they are not getting it.
Absolutely nobody here is saying that. Maybe you’re reading that elsewhere but you certainly aren’t on army.ca.
We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.
Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.
This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.
Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.
Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?
I accept that you’re concerned about economic impacts and job losses. You live in a part of Ontario heavily involved in the auto sector, where a whole ton of jobs are about to be lost because of Trump’s tariffs.
Do you place any responsibility for what’s about to happen on Trump for violating the existing trade treaty and imposing 25% tariffs on most of our economic sectors? Or are you giving him a freebie on his tariffs but condemning ours in response?
MilEME09
Army.ca Veteran
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I have a question
Lots of people saying fuck Trump, let's piss him off with our own tariffs. Ignore his wishes to stop fentanyl and terrorists going south from here. We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.
Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.
This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.
Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.
Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?
Who cares how much hardship we can bring to the Americans? How it will affect them? Worry about Canadians. This is not a war. This is not spiteful. Trump is doing what he thinks best for his country and citizens, even if we think it's personal. It's a negotiation. Trump has thrown his first card, now we need to see how low he will go and to find out where our common ground is so we can grow that.
Trudeau is as useless, in this, as tits on a bull.
Except we aren't ignoring the border. The problem is that the fentanyl and immigration issue was a cover so he could by pass congress and using an emergency measure to pursue his economic policy. He has already stated there was nothing we could do to avoid tariffs, Trudeau tried calling him multiple times since Jan 20 and has been scoffed. We need to wake up and realize this was never about the border. This is his idea of America first by making everything non American more expensive. People need to realize it isn't a joke any more about 51st state, or invading Greenland.
We can't hit back without taking some pain our selves but that doesn't mean we don't do it. If we want to go nuclear we can, the US doesn't refine nickel, they send it all to Sudbury to be refined then shipped back, hit that, the vast majority of aluminum America needs comes from Canada, hit that.
Many other areas we can bring America to the table. Already we have over 40 members of congress signing a letter to remove the tariffs on canada.
Yup, all of this. It’s a cover so he can absorb and acquire. He is not a statesman, he’s an acquisitive and exploitative businessman who avoids honouring his own reciprocal obligations. He has to be viewed with cognizance of that.
So some of this is where they already hit themselves. Whether we need to turn it up or not from our end depends on whether we can hit the target dollar value with other goods that have less impact on our own industry. But yes, knowing that building metal refineries is a lengthy process, it should be on the table as an option if in fact they cannot easily substitute.
Are any of them Republicans? Politically we need to force a divide within his own party on this, break the consensus.
some long winded Maga before country types trying to rationalize what trump is doing revealing their true colours as well. You’ve already stated your preference to becoming annexed and pro Russia stances. Your concern about China being an issue is about as genuine as your concern for Canada QV.
