CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[The Bread Guy]

How many people here keep saying Russia Russia Russia Hoax?

True dat.

I get called traitor a lot, as do other people from what I'm seeing on other platforms. It seems to be the new nazi.

You're right about "traitor" being bandied about a fair bit, but I see it applied an awful lot against politicians the applier doesn't like, period.

Meanwhile, the latest data point on the trade surplus from StatsCan:

Trade surplus with U.S. widened in December but down overall in 2024: StatCan

OTTAWA - Canada's trade surplus with the U.S. widened in December as overall exports rose thanks in part to higher energy prices, Statistics Canada said Wednesday.

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

More at link (or archived here if link doesn't work).

 

[Czech_pivo]

This isn’t about whataboutisms.

Overt Economic threats (or any other overt ones) are far more likely to have a bigger response than subtle covert ones.

If Putin or Xi said publicly that they wanted to annex Canada and started exerting economic pressure to do it you would likely see the same response.

Counter US sentiment has been a feature of the Canadian psyche since 1776.

Its an inferiority complex that we Canadians have had for the last 150+yrs years that is our problem.

Canada is to the US is what Ireland is to the UK, what Austria is to Germany, what New Zealand is to Australia - in many many ways. BUT the biggest difference is OUR obsession with all that goes on US on a daily basis. Our media - print, tv, digital, talk shows is dominated with US news stories to the point that its almost on a 1 to 1 basis with Canadian news events. This is not the case in Ireland or Austria or New Zealand. Their media is not constantly broadcasting British or German or Australian new articles. Their tv station options are not dominated with British or German or Australian channels to the extent that ours are. Its crazy how much US sports, business, news is bombarding us on CDN news outlets. A large % of the CDN population is actually better informed on US politics and events than they are with CDN politics!

 

[Czech_pivo]

OK, lets rephrase it. Its the Liberals total lack of integrity.

Russian and Chinese threats? Deny it, hire a special "rapporteur", finally bring up a parliamentary commission, maybe slightly acknowledge it.

And then we look at the USA. Our LPC has been shit talking Trump and MAGA for 4 years. There is going to be nasty repercussions.

Have a look at who the Mayor of Mississauga is and then look up her claim to fame about 15yrs ago.

 

[Remius]

Its an inferiority complex that we Canadians have had for the last 150+yrs years that is our problem.

No argument there. I would say it’s also our minimalisation of our accomplishments and culture.

Canada is to the US is what Ireland is to the UK, what Austria is to Germany, what New Zealand is to Australia - in many many ways. BUT the biggest difference is OUR obsession with all that goes on US on a daily basis. Our media - print, tv, digital, talk shows is dominated with US news stories to the point that it’s almost on a 1 to 1 basis with Canadian news events. This is not the case in Ireland or Austria or New Zealand. Their media is not constantly broadcasting British or German or Australian new articles. Their tv station options are not dominated with British or German or Australian channels to the extent that ours are. It’s crazy how much US sports, business, news is bombarding us on CDN news outlets. A large % of the CDN population is actually better informed on US politics and events than they are with CDN politics!

That’s the problem with being that close to the world’s only super power. Note too that aside from your Austrian example, Ireland and New Zealand are islands. That affords some insulation. TV and radio waves from the US don’t have to travel far. I would also argue that Ireland and New Zealand and Ireland reject everything their bigger counterparts have to offer. New Zealanders and the Irish definitely identify as not being their bigger counterparts. Call them Australians or English and see how they react. I experienced that on one of my flights to Oceania. We somewhat react that way but most of us just normally laugh it off a as ignorance.

Interesting anecdote on the Irish. My wife went to visit with her mother and aunt on a family pilgrimage to Ireland. While taking a tour they noticed a lot of gratitude to Americans taking in the Irish. They weren’t too keen on Canada’s role in taking in the Irish. Basically Canada was still a loyalist country and America was not.

I can’t really speak to Austrians though. I don’t know enough about them.

 

[Czech_pivo]

From the CBC today -

Industry players have long complained that it's easier to do business with other countries than within Canada, largely due to regulatory barriers including differences in licensing requirements.

Internal Trade Minister Anita Anand, who has been working with the provinces on a way forward, has said removing existing barriers could lower prices by up to 15 per cent and add up to $200 billion to the domestic economy.

"We are at a pivotal moment in the history of our country," she said Wednesday during a news conference in Halifax.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-economic-summit-1.7450975

As sure as Canadians are known for leaving bad tips at a restaurant, nothing, nothing at all meaningful will be done to remove trade barriers within Canada. This will flame out like a moth flying to close to the campfire.

 

[Remius]

From the CBC today -

Industry players have long complained that it's easier to do business with other countries than within Canada, largely due to regulatory barriers including differences in licensing requirements.

Internal Trade Minister Anita Anand, who has been working with the provinces on a way forward, has said removing existing barriers could lower prices by up to 15 per cent and add up to $200 billion to the domestic economy.

"We are at a pivotal moment in the history of our country," she said Wednesday during a news conference in Halifax.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-economic-summit-1.7450975

As sure as Canadians are known for leaving bad tips at a restaurant, nothing, nothing at all meaningful will be done to remove trade barriers within Canada. This will flame out like a moth flying to close to the campfire.

Maybe. I’m optimistic that this is a good step forward.

 

[Halifax Tar]

From the CBC today -

Industry players have long complained that it's easier to do business with other countries than within Canada, largely due to regulatory barriers including differences in licensing requirements.

Internal Trade Minister Anita Anand, who has been working with the provinces on a way forward, has said removing existing barriers could lower prices by up to 15 per cent and add up to $200 billion to the domestic economy.

"We are at a pivotal moment in the history of our country," she said Wednesday during a news conference in Halifax.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-economic-summit-1.7450975

As sure as Canadians are known for leaving bad tips at a restaurant, nothing, nothing at all meaningful will be done to remove trade barriers within Canada. This will flame out like a moth flying to close to the campfire.

Why wasn't this done before?

 

[JLB50]

No argument there. I would say it’s also our minimalisation of our accomplishments and culture.

That’s the problem with being that close to the world’s only super power. Note too that aside from your Austrian example, Ireland and New Zealand are islands. That affords some insulation. TV and radio waves from the US don’t have to travel far. I would also argue that Ireland and New Zealand and Ireland reject everything their bigger counterparts have to offer. New Zealanders and the Irish definitely identify as not being their bigger counterparts. Call them Australians or English and see how they react. I experienced that on one of my flights to Oceania. We somewhat react that way but most of us just normally laugh it off a as ignorance.

Interesting anecdote on the Irish. My wife went to visit with her mother and aunt on a family pilgrimage to Ireland. While taking a tour they noticed a lot of gratitude to Americans taking in the Irish. They weren’t too keen on Canada’s role in taking in the Irish. Basically Canada was still a loyalist country and America was not.

I can’t really speak to Austrians though. I don’t know enough about them.

Kind of reminds me of how, when I was growing up in the U.S. midwest in the 1950s, it was common for people living in eastern Kansas to actively dislike (bordering on hatred) those living in midwestern Missouri, just a few miles across the state line. It had been that way since just before the Civil War when the anti- and pro-slavery forces clashed. In the last few decades though, the dislike has lessened substantially as population growth has taken in countless others from across the nation and immigrants as well.

 

[OldSolduer]

Its an inferiority complex that we Canadians have had for the last 150+yrs years that is our problem.

Pierre Berton sums that up quite nicely in one of his books.

WE Canadians have for far too long been the snotty brat in this continent. Looking down our noses at the USA and virtue signaling for quite some time and not just the last ten years.

Do you realize what FDR did in the 30s helped alleviate the Great Depression? The Hoover Dam is one example.

And what did Canada do for all the unemployed? Insulted them and called them names like "reliefers". There's more - just read Pierre's book.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Why wasn't this done before?

Because Protectionism is alive and well here in Canada - always has been.

Remember, the Liberals were 100% dead against the FTA in 1998 with the US and again 100% against NAFTA in 1993 with Mexico. They were Protectionist then and they are still today.

I love asking Liberals if Jean Chretien's 1993 'Little Red Book' was just a copy of Chairman Mao Tse-tung's little red book.

It's called Humour folks! Laugh a little and enjoy, accept, the irony of it all.

 

[foresterab]

Pierre Berton sums that up quite nicely in one of his books.

WE Canadians have for far too long been the snotty brat in this continent. Looking down our noses at the USA and virtue signaling for quite some time and not just the last ten years.

Do you realize what FDR did in the 30s helped alleviate the Great Depression? The Hoover Dam is one example.

And what did Canada do for all the unemployed? Insulted them and called them names like "reliefers". There's more - just read Pierre's book.

One of FDR's biggest employment programs in the 1930's was the reforestation of former farms/plantations abandoned to mostly pine forest.

In the last decade that has been the biggest investment area for most Canadian companies buying sawmills in the SE states due to trade barriers/softwood lumber tariffs/ and cheap, easily accessible wood supplies. Not much going on within Canada other than more consolidation of smaller slices of the forest tenures -> more local monopolies.

So the Canadian trend continues....

 

[Remius]

Why wasn't this done before?

Provincialism.

Province before country.

 

[Good2Golf]

Kind of reminds me of how, when I was growing up in the U.S. midwest in the 1950s, it was common for people living in eastern Kansas to actively dislike (bordering on hatred) those living in midwestern Missouri, just a few miles across the state line. It had been that way since just before the Civil War when the anti- and pro-slavery forces clashed. In the last few decades though, the dislike has lessened substantially as population growth has taken in countless others from across the nation and immigrants as well.

I thought that was because Kansas was pissed at Missouri for naming Missouri City as Kansas City?

 

[The Bread Guy]

... As sure as Canadians are known for leaving bad tips at a restaurant, nothing, nothing at all meaningful will be done to remove trade barriers within Canada. This will flame out like a moth flying to close to the campfire.

I'd bet my loonie with you on that, but survey says when asked, folks want them to go - let's see if that translates to political will.

Pride in Canada rebounds in face of Trump threat; working to reduce interprovincial trade barriers seen as key to response -

Percentage saying they are ‘very proud’ to be Canadian jumps from 34 to 44 per cent vs. December February 5, 2025 – It has been a whirlwind past week in Canada-U.S. relations, after announced tariffs on Canadian goods entering America – set to take effect on Tuesday – were delayed 30 days. This...

angusreid.org

Mind you, an awful lot of the same pool wants pipelines, so we'll have to see.

 

[JLB50]

I thought that was because Kansas was pissed at Missouri for naming Missouri City as Kansas City?

Yeah, sure gets confusing. Missouri River with no towns in Kansas named after it. Kansas River with a city in Missouri (as well as one in Kansas) named after it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Its an inferiority complex that we Canadians have had for the last 150+yrs years that is our problem.

Canada is to the US is what Ireland is to the UK, what Austria is to Germany, what New Zealand is to Australia - in many many ways. BUT the biggest difference is OUR obsession with all that goes on US on a daily basis. Our media - print, tv, digital, talk shows is dominated with US news stories to the point that its almost on a 1 to 1 basis with Canadian news events. This is not the case in Ireland or Austria or New Zealand. Their media is not constantly broadcasting British or German or Australian new articles. Their tv station options are not dominated with British or German or Australian channels to the extent that ours are. Its crazy how much US sports, business, news is bombarding us on CDN news outlets. A large % of the CDN population is actually better informed on US politics and events than they are with CDN politics!

Canada's problem is that most of what matters is in a narrow strip adjacent to the southern Canada-US border. If conspiracy theorists really want something to worry about, worry that the US would grab much of the empty parts and leave the "strip" to stagger on trying to afford its social programs.