CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Fishbone Jones]

Sticks and stones........

 

[QV]

From a post national state to nationalism in a few short months.

It's fake and temporary. Observe Remius' comment below for example. He is more upset the US called Canada out on its lack of engagement than the immigration problem, CCP, defence funding, energy and industrial decline.

 

[Remius]

It's fake and temporary. Observe Remius' comment below for example. He is more upset the US called Canada out on its lack of engagement than the immigration problem, CCP, defence funding, energy and industrial decline.

As usual your critical reading skills are lacking.

Glad I live rent free in your head that you make this about me lol. I know you are upset that what you were hoping for isn’t happening yet.

 

[QV]

As usual your critical reading skills are lacking.

Glad I live rent free in your head that you make this about me lol. I know you are upset that what you were hoping for isn’t happening yet.

I'm not wrong! And you're not alone. Many, probably a majority, of Canadians think like you. It's what makes Canada so gre..... sub-par.

 

[Remius]

I'm not wrong! And you're not alone. Many, probably a majority, of Canadians think like you. It's what makes Canada so gre..... sub-par.

Again. Critical reading on your part is lacking.

I still fail to understand why people who hate this country as much as you are still here. It’s weird.

 

[QV]

We have different ideas what makes a country great. IMO Canada has not been doing well, and there are a variety of reasons for that but it's chiefly the citizens fault. You are no more or less Canadian than I am. I promise to refrain from sniping at you if you do the same. I'd rather talk about the subject at hand, the pros and cons, and potential outcomes.

 

[Remius]

We have different ideas what makes a country great. IMO Canada has not been doing well, and there are a variety of reasons for that but it's chiefly the citizens fault. You are no more or less Canadian than I am. I promise to refrain from sniping at you if you do the same. I'd rather talk about the subject at hand, the pros and cons, and potential outcomes.

You’ll note that I did not snipe at you and did discuss the topic at hand until YOU came along and made it personal. I then matched energy with energy. That is the promise I’ll make. I’ll match discussion energy.

 

[QV]

Good explanation of Trump's long term plans and why he is using tariffs.

Ian Lee: This is Trump's plan for global economic domination

A paper by one of the president's cabinet picks sets out the strategy behind tariff threats

nationalpost.com

 

[KevinB]

Real Threats can do that to people.

Because Canada has been so active about the Chinese and Russian threats…

I’m sorry but Canada getting all high and mighty now about Nationalism against America is a little farcical.

 

[Kirkhill]

Good explanation of Trump's long term plans and why he is using tariffs.

Ian Lee: This is Trump's plan for global economic domination

A paper by one of the president's cabinet picks sets out the strategy behind tariff threats

nationalpost.com

This podcast was previously posted but it includes Ian Lee making his case to Brian Lilley.

The reason Trump plans to crush Canada that our politicians just don’t get: Full Comment podcast

Carlo Dade and Ian Lee examine what the 'America First' advisers around U.S. President Donald Trump really think

nationalpost.com

From the article posted by QV.

Economics not Guns.

Miran clearly indicates the U.S. will use its economic might — not its military might — as its primary instrument of coercion to achieve its strategic objectives.

CRTC on the table during CUSMA negotiations.

Moreover, Trump has stated he will create the architecture of a new world order without using soldiers and the military as the principal force de frappe. Or more accurately, the U.S. “soldiers” deployed to increase the hegemon’s power will be Google, Apple, Meta, Nvidia, Microsoft and other American tech giants.

Finance on the table

Miran documents and analyzes why Trump believes that the entire postwar international financial architecture, variously called the Bretton Woods system or simply multilateralism, has harmed American interests.

He states clearly that friend and foe alike took advantage of the U.S. in demanding and obtaining full access to American markets while protecting some segments of their own markets from entry by American corporations.

Security and Access linked (2% vs Tariffs)

Even worse, according to Miran, since 1945, the U.S. spent trillions on national defence to protect its allies. In 2024, the U.S. Department of Defence spent approximately $1 trillion. Miran notes that many allies did not contribute the two per cent of GDP agreed upon years ago by NATO signatories and thus were free riders benefiting from the U.S. military umbrella.

The US has tariff room to play with

Miran notes that as the U.S. has the lowest effective tariff rate in the world at three per cent per the World Trade Organization, it has greater latitude to raise its tariff rates. Miran clearly sees tariffs as a major policy tool to drive the rebalancing to reduce the value of the U.S. dollar relative to other currencies to improve the competitiveness of American manufacturing.

Security vs Tariffs again

This approach is additionally justified, Miran argues, by the enormous annual spending (currently $1 trillion annually) of the U.S. defence department to protect allies around the world, which Trump believes to be unfair.

In Miran’s words, “tariffs create negotiating leverage for incentivizing better terms from the rest of the world on both trade and security terms” because “national security and trade are joined at the hip.” This allows Trump to claim that it is a “privilege and not a right” for any foreign firm to enter the U.S. market.

Indeed, Miran argues for a “much stronger demarcation between friend, foe and neutral trading partner.” Friends, he describes, “are inside the security and economic umbrella, but there is more burden sharing” and “may experience more favourable trade or currency terms.”

“Those outside the security umbrella will also find themselves outside friendly arrangements for international trade and easy access to the U.S. consumer,” he adds. “They will have more aggressive costs imposed on them via tariffs and other policies.”

...

This is not novel.

We have enhanced military and civil co-operation in the past in order to secure access to the US market and protect Canadian jobs. PET did the same with Europe - buying German tanks for trade.

 

[Remius]

Because Canada has been so active about the Chinese and Russian threats…

I’m sorry but Canada getting all high and mighty now about Nationalism against America is a little farcical.

This isn’t about whataboutisms.

Overt Economic threats (or any other overt ones) are far more likely to have a bigger response than subtle covert ones.

If Putin or Xi said publicly that they wanted to annex Canada and started exerting economic pressure to do it you would likely see the same response.

Counter US sentiment has been a feature of the Canadian psyche since 1776.

 

[ArmyRick]

This isn’t about whataboutisms.

OK, lets rephrase it. Its the Liberals total lack of integrity.

Russian and Chinese threats? Deny it, hire a special "rapporteur", finally bring up a parliamentary commission, maybe slightly acknowledge it.

And then we look at the USA. Our LPC has been shit talking Trump and MAGA for 4 years. There is going to be nasty repercussions.

 

[QV]

It's time to grow up, set aside petty insufferable jealousy that is the anti-American sentiment, and get on the Trump train. If Canada plays the US's game it will be a prosperous and respected nation with some middle power clout once again. We ought be grateful the most powerful and wealthy nation is our neighbor and culturally closest ally, and we should aim to be a solid ally back.

Or, we remain the LPC's corrupt playground and we whither, fracture, and die.

 

[Kirkhill]

US subsidizes Canada to the tune of 200 BUSD.

Canada can only identify something in the 50-100 BUSD range based on energy flow.

...

What if Trump is linking security into that calculation?

GDP 2024 - 2188 BCAD
National Defence - 30 BCAD
% GDP - 1.4%

NATO 2014 shortfall - 2% - 1.4% = 0.6% = 13 BCAD Annually for the past 10 years
NATO 2025 shortfall - 3% - 1.4% = 1.6% = 34 BCAD Annually going forwards
Trump 2025 shortfall - 5% - 1.4% = 3.6% = 77 BCAD Annually going forwards

77 BCAD at 1.4 CAD/USD = 55 BUSD

Do we get benefit from being on the same continent as NORAD with the full spectrum of NORAD assets? Including BMD? Should we be paying for them?

Energy plus security might push us into the 100-150 BUSD range that could be construed as a subsidy.

....

I presume that because we don't want to pay for BMD coverage we won't be making any requests if missiles start flying.

 

[Remius]

OK, lets rephrase it. Its the Liberals total lack of integrity.

Russian and Chinese threats? Deny it, hire a special "rapporteur", finally bring up a parliamentary commission, maybe slightly acknowledge it.

How many people here keep saying Russia Russia Russia Hoax?

Has anyone denied Russian and or Chinese influence? Can more be done? Yes. But look at the rest of what I wrote.

And then we look at the USA. Our LPC has been shit talking Trump and MAGA for 4 years. There is going to be nasty repercussions.

Sure. That may have more to do with sensitivities then. You would have to be Pretty thin skinned to start a trade war over what a liberal politician says to curry favour with one side of the spectrum.

So we have this little spat. Patriotism goes up (for how long is debatable), our ballot box question seems to have shifted and as a result Canada takes steps to address some issues that need addressing which should include less reliance on the US.

Trump gets an off ramp and claims victory by getting the status quo. Discussions continue. The joint US Can economic summit JT has called for in Toronto is a good step. Anita Anand just announced action on provincial trade barriers and Carney stated he’ll push up the date to get to 2% NATO spending. Perfect timing with everyone feeling national pride in the face of threats that affect them.

 

[Remius]

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk-pm-starmer-tells-canadas-trudeau-he-welcomes-global-conversation-trade-2025-02-05/

Some opportunities across the pond. We should exploit more of that. Given the recent instability with our southern neighbours some insulation is required.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Because Canada has been so active about the Chinese and Russian threats…

I’m sorry but Canada getting all high and mighty now about Nationalism against America is a little farcical.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, will make patriots of Liberal Canadians with quite the same zeal as a reason to be Anti-American.

 

[Remius]

Nothing, absolutely nothing, will make patriots of Liberal Canadians with quite the same zeal as a reason to be Anti-American.

Seems pretty much spread across the political spectrum in Canada.

Last I checked Doug Ford and PP aren't exactly Liberals.

 

[JLB50]

Nothing, absolutely nothing, will make patriots of Liberal Canadians with quite the same zeal as a reason to be Anti-American.

Canadians should be concerned, very angry in fact, at what China and Russia have been doing. On the other hand, American domination of our economy should not be overlooked as a reason for Canadians being angered over the most recent Trump actions (info below as per StatsCan).

https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/StatCan-foreign-controlled-assets-Oct-23.jpg?quality=85&strip=all

 

[Halifax Tar]

Seems pretty much spread across the political spectrum in Canada.

Last I checked Doug Ford and PP aren't exactly Liberals.

The implied difference is that your aforementioned examples were already zealous patriot's.

See, I don't think the left actually likes or loves Canada. I think they just really hate America, especially when its under republican control.

Canadians should be concerned, very angry in fact, at what China and Russia have been doing. On the other hand, American domination of our economy should not be overlooked as a reason for Canadians being angered over the most recent Trump actions (info below as per StatsCan).

https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/StatCan-foreign-controlled-assets-Oct-23.jpg?quality=85&strip=all

Once this spat is over, we will be back to normal with America; with some added diversification I hope.

Russia and China will still be enemies.