Canada converts Sea Kings for battlefield role with SCTF

[Inch]

One item I found interesting in the news article is that "no new weapons will be added". One would think that you would want another C6 on the left side of the A/C. At sea it makes sense only having one gun on one side ( you can decide what side of the A/C you want to present to the threat). During land operations you generally don't know where the threat is.

Has there been any discussion on on the crewing of this A/C yet, besides the pilots?

There's nowhere to put a gun on the left side of the aircraft, unless you shoot it out the window or put the stairs down on the personnel door. In either case, it would make egressing past the gun mount fairly difficult.

One more thing, the C6 is a defensive weapon when mounted on the helicopter, it's not used to lay suppressing fire so the crunchies can advance.

 

[geo]

yup.... that should be the accompanying "gunships" responsibility....

 

[Rigger]

Agreed that the C6 is for defense only. It just sucks that you can only defend one side of the A/C.  Placing another C6 in the window on the left side wouldn't be all that difficult, however the HF antenna would have to move and stops placed on the mount so as not to hit the sponson. As for egressing, that is always the last exit of choice with the push out window and the HF antenna in the way. It sounds like these A/C are destined for a hot dry dusty climate anyways, where inverted water egress will unlikely occur.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If it were up to me, a second gun would go in the personnel door on the port side.  I'm sure a swinging mount could fit there...

 

[ch124xx]

If it were up to me, a second gun would go in the personnel door on the port side.  I'm sure a swinging mount could fit there...

I believe that is where the USN UH-3H's have their port side gun.  But they did their airworthiness clearances years ago and would struggle to pass today's standards.

 

[beenthere]

Just keep them away from where people are shooting.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The whole point of this conversion program is more about learning lessons and developing procedures anyway.  I'm not too concerned that our Sea King "Charlies" my not have all the gear that we might like.

 

[Good2Golf]

The whole point of this conversion program is more about learning lessons and developing procedures anyway.  I'm not too concerned that our Sea King "Charlies" my not have all the gear that we might like.

Exactly!  Folks should think of it more as a "proof of concept" effort than providing a 100% capability...

Cheers,
Duey

 

[GK .Dundas]

Exactly!  Folks should think of it more as a "proof of concept" effort than providing a 100% capability...

Cheers,
Duey

As I said in another forum ..baby steps amphibious warfare is the next thing to rocket science do it wrong and you end up with ........... Gallipoli ,Deippe.

 

[ch124xx]

I think I've got it sorted, message this week, symposium 30-31 Mar as part of my HHT first week of April, a lot of leave  and CCU in Jun  ;D

'Course, six months from now when I'm buried by that bagge I might not be so happy  :

Baz: thoughts on the symposium ? A few things have changed since you left or have they ?

 

[Baz]

Baz: thoughts on the symposium ? A few things have changed since you left or have they ?

The more things change the more they stay the same... especially a lot of the people.  It is certainly the Shearwater I remember but it seems that it is just in the starting blocks waiting for the gun to go off.  Having said that, it is good that some obvious things are under way for the Cyclone: the new building, everybody moving around.  I keep telling myself I'm coming back at just the right time for things to really get rolling.  Seeing that things are actually happening for SCTF (the CH-124B mods) was nice as well.

The symposium was good - it was too bad that more Capts from Shearwater weren't set loose to attend.  The mess dinner following was good as well.

Having the Navy, Army, and Combat Helo guys all in one room was good.  Some good interesting breifings as well, cleared up some questions that in fact were being asked here.  Unfortunately, the briefs were asked to be kept in house so we couldn't just post them somewhere.

I think it's good that everyone got together and tried to talk the same language.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure the communities can do everything as quick as we would like (for us, new SCTF roles, bring in the new helo, and expand our other warfare roles), so we really need some good direction on where each community is going.

 

[bison33]

Odds are it will have FE's!!!! Take a hike you PB sandwich making aseop ;D......I loved working/flying on the seapig in my tech days(after a herc, anything is nice to work on) and I'd be the first FE to volunteer. But I'm a realist....our government will spend all this money, do some trials and then sell them for $500 a pop to some logging company

 

[Rigger]

Bison
Do you have a ref for your statement, is Shearwater now a posting pref for FEs? I find it hard to believe the trade is taking on a new task, we have a hard enough time filling the current positions nevermind new ones. FEs are leaving faster than we can get new ones in. With the addition of the UAVs and possibly now the Sea Kings somebody better start knitting and fast. Don't get me wrong I used to work on the old girl as well and would love to fly on her again.

Cheers

 

[bison33]

riggerFE.........These seapigs conversions are not done yet and who knows what exactly they'll be doing...the government likes to talk and if you recall, they used to have FE's on seapigs in shearwater years ago...for land based flying only though. It only seems logical that IF these 5 seapigs are converted and find a use for some time, that bringing back FE's is the only logical thing. That's my take on it.....besides, can't have a aesop flying around w/o a ship to land on..... with no scope in the back, they'd be lost :'(

But I know how hurting we are for FE's,  but a certain CWO in 1 wing gave us a briefing on what's going on..........your going to love this...make the trade open to civie's/remuster's from any trade. Though at first they'll be looking for skilled/semi-skilled (college boys with AME or similar) and it will be a 4 yr process from joining to being at wings standard. It is happening in SAR world right now.  And once the CAS signs off on it, it's pretty much a done deal........and also, the 3 herc sqn's will be getting 2 M/Cpl's each by either year's end or next year. The CAS signed off on that.

 

[h3tacco]

Just a heads up on FEs on Sea Kings. Shearwater cannot handle the training bill to reintroduce FEs into the Sea King for the SCTF. The third crewman on SCTF helos will be filled by either Navs or AESOps likely till the end of the Sea Kings life. As to future SCTF ops with the 148 that is anyway ones guess but may include FEs.

 

[beenthere]

My understanding of the "new role" is that it's not really new. Sea Kings have been used to shuttle troops & cargo since forever. With all of the ASW gear removed and more seating it will no doubt serve quite well as a utility transport until something else comes along which could be a decade or two.
With a crew of two pilots and one other crew member none of which need much special training as shuttling troops and cargo is about as basic as it gets the airlift unit could be composed of people with no background in present Sea King operations other than a core element of experienced pilots.
It would be gross overkill to use Navigators, AESOPs, or FEs to sling cargo or look after passengers and cargo. I'm sure that all of their years of training would be better used in doing something more pertinent than loadmaster duties.

 

[h3tacco]

Beenthere I pretty much agree with you. Sea Kings have done utility work since the begining but basically any helicopter can do utility in a non-threat in environment. You don't need a Nav, AESOp or FE specifically for the ultility role basically just an aft crewman. The current situation of using Nav and AESOps for the SCTF is basically because those are the people we have in Shearwater right now.

 

[Bobbyoreo]

Didnt Canada use them in Somila. I know ive seen pictures of them in Somila...I just dont know if they were used for troop life or what!!!

 

[mitch83]

does anyone know how they are going to select the ground troops for this contingent force i had heard about it but didnt believe we would do it because of man power ...i wonder if its going to be like a usmc type thing?....

 

[Good2Golf]

Didnt Canada use them in Somila. I know ive seen pictures of them in Somila...I just dont know if they were used for troop life or what!!!

Yes, a friend of mine flew them off Provider.

Cheers,
Duey