Canada's purchase of the Leopard 2 MBT
- Thread starter bison33
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Once again, Coderre is talking out of his a**, much as he does every time he comments on defence issues. What equipment for "domestic" needs are we lacking? How is airlift Afghan-centric? Why does he assume that we wouldn't need this equipment anyway? What is the Liberal suggestion for rebuilding the CF after they virtually destroyed it?
The Liberal defence critic represents the type of politician - from all parties - that has plagued the CF for years: completely without knowledge, entirely politically motivated, shooting from the hip, almost pathologically anti-military; full of empty-headed rhetoric without any analysis or practical application. Such tripe...
GK .Dundas
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I have become convinced that this all part of an incredibly brillant plan by the Liberal party.Once Mr.Coderre moves on to what ever post they deem fit ,who ever replaces him will look like an intellectual giant by comparison.
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Between Mr Dosanj (sp?) and Mr Coderre, they have dug a really big hole...... guess the next one will be really brilliant!
Hmmm... where is Bill Graham when we need him? (prolly agreeing with what is happening in the CF & thus keeping his mouth shut)
Hmmm... where is Bill Graham when we need him? (prolly agreeing with what is happening in the CF & thus keeping his mouth shut)
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Teddy Ruxpin said:
Just a minor correction to your comment; it isn't just his comments on Defence Issues, but all issues. The man is a corrupt imbecile. Look at what he was raising a stink about last month - the Capt of Team Canada's hockey team.
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George Wallace said:
Most high ranking PLC members from Quebec are. For them, political ends always justify whatever means.
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I would like to congratulate the members of Canada's Tank Corp, for soon to be receiving the keys to a number of the finest MBT's in the world.
I am sure that your crew skills will complement your country and protect the free world.
Enjoy, cheers.
BM
I am sure that your crew skills will complement your country and protect the free world.
Enjoy, cheers.
BM
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Captain Sensible said:
Theres still no "RCAC" though is there? Got rid of that in the 60's?
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Hale said:
There is. The term "Armoured Branch" was used for a while but it seems to have gone back to RCAC in the 70s:
http://www.rcaca.org/
http://www.regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/cav/RCAC.htm
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/mediawiki-1.5.5/index.php?title=Royal_Canadian_Armoured_Corps
ironduke57
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Canadian´s train on Leo2 A6M´s in Münster:
Regards,
ironduke57
Regards,
ironduke57
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It's great to see the Candians with a world-class tank and also to see them back in Germany, even for a short while. On a lighter note, I hope that picture in the driving rain doesn't depict the weekly forecast for Germany. I'm flying there tomorrow and it better be sunny!
ironduke57
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Bad luck for you. On TV they said earliest on Sunday the weather will be slightly better. BTW: Are you the same Red 6 from the WHQ Forum(before you/he got banned)?Red 6 said:
Regards,
ironduke57
edit: More pix: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=11900&l=00b2d&id=669356328
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Great photos, good to see the Dragoons and some familiar faces there too. Great looking tank.
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The usual disclaimer:
Wed, July 25, 2007
Army plan to upgrade used tanks hits snag
No company in Canada can do the job quickly
By CP
OTTAWA — The Conservative government’s $200-million plan to refurbish almost half of the 100 surplus Leopard 2 tanks being purchased from the Dutch has hit a snag.
There’s currently no company in Canada capable of quickly improving up to 40 Leopard 2A4 armoured vehicles in order to meet the rigours and dangers of Afghanistan.
An undetermined portion of the contract will likely have to carried out overseas, says a senior defence official.
“Obviously, we’d like to do as much of it in Canada as possible but, of course, we currently don’t have any capability in Canada to do heavy armoured vehicle work, and so there is consultation with industry taking place,” Dan Ross, assistant deputy minister of materiel at National Defence, said in an interview with The Canadian Press.
“We’re going to have to determine what can be done.”
Defence Minister Gordon O’Connor and Public Works Minister Michel Fortier announced in April that the army’s aging Leopard 1 C2 tanks would be replaced at a cost of $650 million.
Under the program, Canada would borrow 20 armoured vehicles from the Germans and purchase 100 slightly used tanks from the Netherlands. A month later, O’Connor revealed there would be an additional $650-million, long-term support contract — bringing the total pricetag to $1.3 billion.
Industry would see benefits
As part of the initial purchase phase, roughly $200 million was set aside to upgrade the used tanks, primarily with air conditioning and better armour, meant to withstand roadside bombs. Both O’Connor and Fortier said Canadian industry would see great benefits.
While the government has promised open bidding for both the immediate upgrades and the long-term maintenance contract, it appears there’s only one company, located in Quebec, that might be capable of the job.
Rheinmattall Canada, based in Montreal, is in talks with the federal government and Krauss-Maffei-Wegmann — the Leopard’s German manufacturer — about becoming involved, said Ross.
But it remains to be seen how much work the company, formerly Oerlikon Canada, can do since its primary job has been to service air-defence vehicles.
It could also turn into a politically touchy situation, as the Conservatives were criticized last week for a trail of feel-good defence spending projects in Quebec.
Ross said the scope of modifications on the slightly used Dutch tanks has not yet been determined because the Defence Department has been concentrating on getting the brand new tanks, borrowed from the German Army, into Afghanistan by mid-August.
30-year-old Leopard 1 tanks
The army has been operating a troop of 30-year-old Leopard 1 tanks in the fight against the Taliban, but the absence of air conditioning in 55-degree heat and a dwindling supply of spare parts forced Ottawa into the unusual arrangement.
A former tank commander said a Canadian Forces shop facility in Montreal used to have the expertise to handle upgrades on the 60-tonne monsters, but retired Col. Chris Corrigan says it slipped away, especially when the army looked at scrapping the Leopards a few years ago.
“This isn’t rocket science, but given that we haven’t done it in a while it’s like ramping up anything,” said Corrigan, who spent 35 years in tanks and is now a member of the Royal Canadian Military Institute.
“Once you lose a capability, it’s tough to get it back. It would be like trying to build frigates again. This is example of the argument people will give your for maintaining a defence industrial base. A nation like Canada needs to be able to service its own armoured vehicles.”
Beyond the challenge of finding a Canadian company to do the upgrades, engineers will have to overcome technical hurdles.
German defence sources are skeptical whether an air-conditioning system can be installed on the older A4 variant of the Dutch tanks.
“That depends — I’m quite honest — on the auxiliary power unit,” said a German army source, who asked not to be identified.
“I’m not aware whether the power unit in the Dutch tanks is able to handle the load.”
Climate control system possible
Ross said he’s been assured by the tank manufacturer that a climate control system is possible, but added the solution may involve a combination of blown air and a cooling vest for the crew, similar to what race-car drivers wear.
Adding extra armour to withstand Taliban booby traps, which have grown increasingly powerful, will also be a complicated, time-consuming task. The tanks will effectively have to be disassembled, with their turrets, tracks and wheels taken off.
Ross said the department is aiming to have at least 20 refurbished Leopards in Kandahar and to return the borrowed German tanks by the end of 2008, just before Canada’s current military commitment in Afghanistan ends in February 2009.
Eighty the 100 tanks being purchased from the Dutch will be older Leopard 2A4 variants and the other 20 will be slightly newer Leopard 2A6s, which have a longer gun, Ross said.
The tanks will be shipped to Canada sometime in the fall and will be organized into two squadrons, one at CFB Gagetown and the other in CFB Wainwright.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2007/07/25/4367625.html
Wed, July 25, 2007
Army plan to upgrade used tanks hits snag
No company in Canada can do the job quickly
By CP
OTTAWA — The Conservative government’s $200-million plan to refurbish almost half of the 100 surplus Leopard 2 tanks being purchased from the Dutch has hit a snag.
There’s currently no company in Canada capable of quickly improving up to 40 Leopard 2A4 armoured vehicles in order to meet the rigours and dangers of Afghanistan.
An undetermined portion of the contract will likely have to carried out overseas, says a senior defence official.
“Obviously, we’d like to do as much of it in Canada as possible but, of course, we currently don’t have any capability in Canada to do heavy armoured vehicle work, and so there is consultation with industry taking place,” Dan Ross, assistant deputy minister of materiel at National Defence, said in an interview with The Canadian Press.
“We’re going to have to determine what can be done.”
Defence Minister Gordon O’Connor and Public Works Minister Michel Fortier announced in April that the army’s aging Leopard 1 C2 tanks would be replaced at a cost of $650 million.
Under the program, Canada would borrow 20 armoured vehicles from the Germans and purchase 100 slightly used tanks from the Netherlands. A month later, O’Connor revealed there would be an additional $650-million, long-term support contract — bringing the total pricetag to $1.3 billion.
Industry would see benefits
As part of the initial purchase phase, roughly $200 million was set aside to upgrade the used tanks, primarily with air conditioning and better armour, meant to withstand roadside bombs. Both O’Connor and Fortier said Canadian industry would see great benefits.
While the government has promised open bidding for both the immediate upgrades and the long-term maintenance contract, it appears there’s only one company, located in Quebec, that might be capable of the job.
Rheinmattall Canada, based in Montreal, is in talks with the federal government and Krauss-Maffei-Wegmann — the Leopard’s German manufacturer — about becoming involved, said Ross.
But it remains to be seen how much work the company, formerly Oerlikon Canada, can do since its primary job has been to service air-defence vehicles.
It could also turn into a politically touchy situation, as the Conservatives were criticized last week for a trail of feel-good defence spending projects in Quebec.
Ross said the scope of modifications on the slightly used Dutch tanks has not yet been determined because the Defence Department has been concentrating on getting the brand new tanks, borrowed from the German Army, into Afghanistan by mid-August.
30-year-old Leopard 1 tanks
The army has been operating a troop of 30-year-old Leopard 1 tanks in the fight against the Taliban, but the absence of air conditioning in 55-degree heat and a dwindling supply of spare parts forced Ottawa into the unusual arrangement.
A former tank commander said a Canadian Forces shop facility in Montreal used to have the expertise to handle upgrades on the 60-tonne monsters, but retired Col. Chris Corrigan says it slipped away, especially when the army looked at scrapping the Leopards a few years ago.
“This isn’t rocket science, but given that we haven’t done it in a while it’s like ramping up anything,” said Corrigan, who spent 35 years in tanks and is now a member of the Royal Canadian Military Institute.
“Once you lose a capability, it’s tough to get it back. It would be like trying to build frigates again. This is example of the argument people will give your for maintaining a defence industrial base. A nation like Canada needs to be able to service its own armoured vehicles.”
Beyond the challenge of finding a Canadian company to do the upgrades, engineers will have to overcome technical hurdles.
German defence sources are skeptical whether an air-conditioning system can be installed on the older A4 variant of the Dutch tanks.
“That depends — I’m quite honest — on the auxiliary power unit,” said a German army source, who asked not to be identified.
“I’m not aware whether the power unit in the Dutch tanks is able to handle the load.”
Climate control system possible
Ross said he’s been assured by the tank manufacturer that a climate control system is possible, but added the solution may involve a combination of blown air and a cooling vest for the crew, similar to what race-car drivers wear.
Adding extra armour to withstand Taliban booby traps, which have grown increasingly powerful, will also be a complicated, time-consuming task. The tanks will effectively have to be disassembled, with their turrets, tracks and wheels taken off.
Ross said the department is aiming to have at least 20 refurbished Leopards in Kandahar and to return the borrowed German tanks by the end of 2008, just before Canada’s current military commitment in Afghanistan ends in February 2009.
Eighty the 100 tanks being purchased from the Dutch will be older Leopard 2A4 variants and the other 20 will be slightly newer Leopard 2A6s, which have a longer gun, Ross said.
The tanks will be shipped to Canada sometime in the fall and will be organized into two squadrons, one at CFB Gagetown and the other in CFB Wainwright.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2007/07/25/4367625.html
Spencer100
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Recce By Death said:Jeebus...making a mountain out of a mole hill.
These so called "problems" have already been address and sorted out.
As for the 2 squadrons...they left one out. :
Regards
The MSM will do anything to tar the goverment. They hate Harper and the CPC, also don't like Hiller to much either. They would like nothing better than the CF to go back to "Peacekeeping" (I know, like that was all the Forces have do for the last 50 years) Really like Canadian industry is going to have instant ablity to build ships and tanks in months.
Plus why is every Defence contract have to be about who in what province get what?
Sorry about the rant
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