Canadian Decoration: C.D. [Merged]

[navig8ur]

I've been waiting since June 2012 for my CD 2...........crickets

I've prompted the system three times and each time I get more discouraged at how the CAF as an institution is not following through on basic procedures and protocols.

 

[George Wallace]

I've been waiting since June 2012 for my CD 2...........crickets

I've prompted the system three times and each time I get more discouraged at how the CAF as an institution is not following through on basic procedures and protocols.

What is your impression of the amalgamation of Admin and Fin Clerks into one trade; RMS?

 

[McG]

When I was awarded the CD in 1986, there was no ordering etc and it came in on time. I received the clasp in 1997 in Bosnia. Again, it was pretty much on time.

For my second clasp I researched my eligibility and told my Supt Clerk, who ordered it and told me my calculations were wrong....I would have received it later if not for her efforts.

How can something we've been doing since the earth cooled go so far off the rails? Is it the Good Idea Fairy at work again? Or someone in NDHQ have a bright idea?

At one time, the CD was pushed to units from Ottawa based on enrolement dates.  However, the responsible office did not have visibility on things such as conduct sheets and leave without pay.  The result was a lot of medals returned by units for pers who were inelligable.  This was seen as bad, so the push system was replaced with a pull system.  I am not sure how long the pull system has been in place, but suspect at least in the area of a decade. 

 

[MJP]

What is your impression of the amalgamation of Admin and Fin Clerks into one trade; RMS?

Are you still on that tired beaten horse?  :-* 

 

[George Wallace]

Are you still on that tired beaten horse?  :-*

That is one tired beaten horse that will take a long time to be refreshed and in racing form.  ;D

 

[Danjanou]

I guess we could always confiscate this guy's CD and reissue it? I'd bet a couple of beers there is no name etc engraved on it

8)



.... Too soon?

 

[SupersonicMax]

At one time, the CD was pushed to units from Ottawa based on enrolement dates.  However, the responsible office did not have visibility on things such as conduct sheets and leave without pay.  The result was a lot of medals returned by units for pers who were inelligable.  This was seen as bad, so the push system was replaced with a pull system.  I am not sure how long the pull system has been in place, but suspect at least in the area of a decade.

All the required information is available on the MPRR.  It even has a specific section on CD Forecast.  It includes information like: eligible date, deferred date, which CD is due, LWOP/LOP, Forfeited days, Forfeiture for AWOL, Forfeiture for civil custody, etc.  Everything is calculated.  There is no need to have many layers of administration and approvals.  A simple script could pull all this info out of People Soft at regular interval and early enough to get the CDs for members in time.  We are almost in 2015 and sometimes is puzzles me how little automation we have in a lot of our processes...

 

[dapaterson]

Institutionally we resist change with a vengeance.  Much of our HR is still a 1950s paper transactions based system with some small amount of automation, and just about zero trust in the ability of individuals to input data themselves.

About a year from now the first release of the update to HRMS is scheduled to occur, and it should bring some modest improvements in automation.  Of course, that assumes that we won't have COs and clerks making up their own rules and ordering people to print screen captures and sign them as "proof" of a transaction, because somewhere in the furry reaches of their brain the idea is wedged that it's not real if it's not on a piece of paper somewhere.

 

[George Wallace]

.........  We are almost in 2015 and sometimes is puzzles me how little automation we have in a lot of our processes...

With the advent of all this technology, it was forcast that this was supposed to make us a paperless society.  It has actually increased the paperwork and slowed down the bureaucratic process.  Seems we have become less productive than the projected views on productivity stated at the onset of digitalization. 

 

[blackberet17]

This whole thread started in responce to a statment on an "apparent shortage."  Has anyone established that there really is a shortage and that this is not a preception from within one unit whose CClk and Adjt have failed to order the medals?

I have it on good knowledge from my CClrk's best friend's cousin, who works at DHH and is dating the guy who stamps the requests for issue, who said he heard from his rec hockey league's third-string goalie's girlfriend's mother's aunt, that there's a shortage.

 

[medicineman]

I have it on good knowledge from my CClrk's best friend's cousin, who works at DHH and is dating the guy who stamps the requests for issue, who said he heard from his rec hockey league's third-string goalie's girlfriend's mother's aunt, that there's a shortage.

:rofl:

MM

 

[Navy_Pete]

Kind of  ff topic:

I had a guy working for me that when he showed up in Ottawa was three years overdue for his second clasp.

After months of trying to push the paperwork around, arguing with someone in the CFSU that a lost report wasn't required (for months)... it turns out it was sitting in a box somewhere in Halifax and had never been issued.  :facepalm:

Think there were a few errors along the way, but would have thought someone in his divisional chain would have done something in the previous two or three years when it was AWOL.  Not sure how common something like that is, but no one really seemed surprised.

:2c:  Sometimes I think people blame the 'supply system' or another system when they drop the ball.  See it happen all the time when people complain there is a shortage of parts, that they never put in a demand for, or returned the broken ones so they could be R&Od so replacements would be avail.

 

[Tibbson]

He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it. 

 

[cupper]

He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it.

So much for the concept of "recognition". : :facepalm:

 

[ModlrMike]

Mine was a little over two years late, and they screwed up my dates on my MPRR. As I'm not going to be getting a third award, I don't really care.

 

[Tibbson]

So much for the concept of "recognition". : :facepalm:

I think recognition of our members is something that, on the whole, we do poorly.  Many times we talk a good game about it and thankfully there are some Units who make an effort but overall I think we could do a better job and issues around the CD just reinforce my opinion. 

 

[medicineman]

He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it.

That reeks of bone idleness on the part of both the CoC and the Admin Chain...are you going to write yourself up for and apply for your own VC, MSC, MMM, etc?  Of course not...well hope not anyway (seen stranger things happen).  The only time I was told to "apply" for a medal was my OSM (Haiti) for OP HALO - and all that entailed was going to the designated medals clerk in the OR to verify my MPRR so that I'd be awarded it sometime before my best before date or retirement date, whichever came first.

Goes back to my previous statement about know your personnel and promote their welfare.

MM

 

[Edward Campbell]

He's lucky it was waiting for him at least.  When I was in Halifax I was 2 years late for my second clasp but I just assumed it was the standard delay in the system.  Once I went asking about it I was told nothing had ever been done because I hadn't applied for it.  I told them I assumed the system would kick it out or that there was a "medals clerk" whose job it was to track this and other medals related issues but I was told nope, it's the members responsibility.  At least I finally got but it kinda takes the shine off it when you have to go and ask for it.

That was most certainly not the case when, over 30 years ago, I was a CO. Before computers my adjutant and superintending clerk used a very good paper calendar system to track and action CDs, promotions, courses, and, and, and ... for hundreds of soldiers with an annual 'turnover' of 150ish. Our 'paper' system worked ... it just took a wee, tiny modicum of command and staff responsibility.

In my own experience I never, not even once (not even that silly peacekeeping medal they gave out post my retirement) applied for anything. The system discovered, usually without the aid of computers, that I was due/entitled to this, that or the other course or pay raise or even gong.

It isn't a supply problem; it's a f___ing people problem: people like the officers and NCOs in ships, units, bases and HQs.

 

[Grunt_031]

It isn't a supply problem; it's a f___ing people problem: people like the officers and NCOs in ships, units, bases and HQs.

I concur.

For my CD. I was posted in Calgary 1996 at the time with 1VP. It was already 2 years after my CD date. I received a call from Base HQ asking that they had my CD but they were unsure of which unit I was in. I told them and the they said they would sent it to Bn right away.  We moved to Edmonton in 1997 and still nothing. In 1999, my CSM informed me that I would be receiving my CD at the Xmas dinner. He said that when they shut down the Base OR in Calgary they found a drawer full of medals that had be forgotten.

For my Peacekeeping Medal. The Bn was doing their presentation medal when another Sgt and I were tasked to the States to work with a National Guard Unit. We were to received our medals on return. When we got back, we were told that they were short some medals and gave them to other members. It was 5 years until I received mine.  And when I got it, it had another members name on it (the presentation box).

 

[NavyShooter]

I am now (as of 3 weeks ago) due for my Clasp.

I have my doubts that the H&A unit rep (who's actually my boss) has done anything with this...